How we fix the pubs and zone.

[Doc Flabby]

Funnily enough, that's sort of how Spastic was started. :P This actually used to be pretty common back in the days when automated TWD first came around. I'm not too sure why it stopped happening as much, but it probably has a lot to do with the lack of pub population in general.

TWD/TWL is definitely an aspect of the game that keeps people coming back, but as everyone knows, it's not exactly the most accessible of things to get into. Yeah, I agree that there needs to be some way to draw players from pubs into the TWD community. It does actually happen, but those squads tend to get slaughtered by the more organized ones, and don't really go anywhere. New TWD/TWL stars are few and far between these days, and the competition is drying up.

We needs ta do somethin'.

I agree. The problem with the pubs and the zone is 4fold. This is my proposal to fix things.

Problem 1 - New players confused by game
Confusion for new players. When a new player logs in sometimes they will be in a pure pub...sometimes they will not. both pubs have different gameplay....It took me serveral weeks of playing before i even found out about ESC + A and ?go.
Solution
A ?go tutorial arena for new players limited by usage. The pubbots can automatically punt noob players into this arena. This allows them to learn the game without being attacked by newbs. Staff can mointer the arena and help new players. I would suggest this arena contains a small flagging game. The idea is noobs acctualy play here for a bit before being unleashed. Of cource they have the option of skipping the tutorial

Problem 2 - Confusion over the purpose of pub
There is still a massive ideological arguement over what pub should be...and why its no good...what ships should be changed...
Solution
Change the pubs back to how they were circa 2004-2005 They were most popular then and most enjoyable to play.

1 - Allow private freqs in pure-pub
2 - Restore the Small weasel with infinate cloak + x-radar (that version was the best and most balanced.
3 - Remove !warp from pure-pub...make people work to get into the FR...its too frustrating when it turns into a burst spam.
4 - Remove most of the commands from pure-pub simply make it levi-free.
5 - Change the pure-pub bot so it rewards holding flag for 10 minutes total (no resets...timer just stops like in ?go base) rather than in 3 minute intervals. The 3 minute invervals destroy long-term playing and tactics that make for more fun.
6 - Remove all the green spam from pure-pub its confusing and all the other random crap the the bot generates. The bot should simply record the time...and which freq is winning...nothing more...nothing less....The same bot should be in all pubs....pure-pub has the single change of it not allowing leviathans.

We need to make pub simpler, and more enjoyable....not make it more and more needlessly complex...it puts off and confuses new players...we have distension for people who want to be a bot-jockey...

Problem 3 - Lack of new TWD squads/Players
Its difficult to recruit new players. New twd squads are difficult to form.
Solution (highly controveral - i will get flamed for this)
Relax the double squadding rules in TWD, relax the squad hopping rules...lets make it EASY for people to play TWD. If i had had the problems i had recently when i got accused of double squadding when i first signed up for TWD i probably wouldnt have bothered....Lets keep the draconian and harsh rules for TWL.
Solution (less controveral)
Advertise TWD more in pub...its bearly meantioned
Explain TWD in the tutorial arena.
Encorage "tryouts" arenas. I've not seen these for ages. I'm sure staff could help support these in some ways.

Problem 4 - supposed lack of new talent
Lack of decent new players "New TWD/TWL stars are few and far between these days"
Solution
Start to look around more...I can school a number of player currently on TWL squads including some starters in a number of ships yet no one has ever tried to recuit me to a TWL squad. Prehaps with the right team and training i might even become good.....There are many players like me out there....

Some guys here might not know but a number of players i recuited to $flabby$ (back in 2005-2006) as their first squad from pub as new players and complete noobs are now in TWL, some are even starters (they are all pretty much under aliases, except mr_flab i may add - sad but people seem to care more about reputation than skills) Fixing problem 3 will make a big difference.

Why distension is not the problem OR solution
I think distension is a distraction from the problems we need to solve. I've seen days where pub/distension/events and twd is all playing side by side. In fact the population was higher than it is normally. I personally hate distension but its a symptom of the problems this zone faces....not the problem or cure. I think distension can have a place in TW.

[HateTheFake]

Mostly a good post however i strongly disagree with:

2 - Restore the Small weasel with infinate cloak + x-radar (that version was the best and most balanced.

The x now is perfectly balanced. Having a small x with infinite radar/cloak is too overpowered for normal pubs.

I definitely dont want double squadding, last thing i want or need is 10 aliasers on squad. If this feature is implemented make it so captains can tell the person is double squadding, like have his name show up in blue on the twd.trenchwars.org

[Doc Flabby]

I definitely dont want double squadding, last thing i want or need is 10 aliasers on squad. If this feature is implemented make it so captains can tell the person is double squadding, like have his name show up in blue on the twd.trenchwars.org

I didnt say i wanted double squadding...i was trying to say we need to relax the automated rules . the problem is the current double squadding detection throws up alot of false positives...plus you can't play round a friends house...plus you have to register other players at your address...its a freaking pain in the ass...escpially for newer players who are like wtf this is too difficult. Not being able to have some friends round to play twd sucks.

[DankNuggets]

Mostly a good post however i strongly disagree with:

2 - Restore the Small weasel with infinate cloak + x-radar (that version was the best and most balanced.

The x now is perfectly balanced. Having a small x with infinite radar/cloak is too overpowered for normal pubs.

I definitely dont want double squadding, last thing i want or need is 10 aliasers on squad. If this feature is implemented make it so captains can tell the person is double squadding, like have his name show up in blue on the twd.trenchwars.org

was it infinite? i thought it drained if you had stealth+cloak, but not stealth+xradar or cloak+xradar...?

and didn't lanc's have one-hit kills? i don't want that again

[Viruk]

Solution
A ?go tutorial arena for new players limited by usage. The pubbots can automatically punt noob players into this arena. This allows them to learn the game without being attacked by newbs. Staff can mointer the arena and help new players. I would suggest this arena contains a small flagging game. The idea is noobs acctualy play here for a bit before being unleashed. Of cource they have the option of skipping the tutorial

Good idea but no auto warping to another arena please. It would have the drawback that new players were not seeing what is really available. Impatient players might be turned off by seeing a sparsely populated tutorial arena. Bot and spam haters would be annoyed. Many would go look for another zone before even realizing they can skip the tutorial. It is unlikely that we could ever get enough staff attention to prevent this (and some people would prefer to deal with a bot anyway).
Any tutorial would have to deal with the fact that dealing with noobs and being lamed and spawned is unfortunately part of the game.

There is still a massive ideological arguement over what pub should be...and why its no good...what ships should be changed...

It should:

• Be fun
• Be easily accessible
• Have basing
• Be a gateway to other parts of TW
• Be a useful primer for skills required in squad play

Anyone got any more? Since it already works somewhat in all these areas and since people are going to have different priorities dependent on their particular area of interest I don't see how the argument is ever going to end.

Change the pubs back to how they were circa 2004-2005 They were most popular then and most enjoyable to play.

What worked back then with a larger population to draw from may not be the best for now though. Look at the way the the attempt to turn back the clock to solve the overpowered weasel problem has resulted in much more boring weaseling in pub.

1 - Allow private freqs in pure-pub

I love a good 3-way battle now and then but do you really want me solo attacking both basing teams whenever I get annoyed by a bit of TKing? Many players are much worse than me and will not even go for the flag at all. However I have no objections to trying it out.

2 - Restore the Small weasel with infinate cloak + x-radar (that version was the best and most balanced.

Most balanced - no
Most fun - absolutely!
It works great in the standard pub where laming is the norm and fun is the main objective but in a basing arena like purepub it would be somewhat overpowered.
I am not alone in wanting see some form of small weasel though.
If we went for basing without flag resets they wouldn't be bad for basing (although basing itself might become more boring).
Could it perhaps be balanced by less x-radar drain and greater chance of spawning with x-radar?

3 - Remove !warp from pure-pub...make people work to get into the FR...its too frustrating when it turns into a burst spam.

Yes that can be annoying. I also am not keen on being warped into a minefield. I hate it when it forgets my autowarp and I am left alone outside base. Might as well get rid of it and encourage the terriers to get in and call more. This won't really make pub much more fun though.

4 - Remove most of the commands from pure-pub simply make it levi-free.

I don't see how the bot commands do any harm even if they aren't really needed. Might even make it better for some. Not everybody is anti-bot. If fact it might be confusing to have commands that work in one arena but not in the other.

5 - Change the pure-pub bot so it rewards holding flag for 10 minutes total (no resets...timer just stops like in ?go base) rather than in 3 minute intervals. The 3 minute invervals destroy long-term playing and tactics that make for more fun.

Last minute saves are quite fun too though and really worth working for when it resets. Could it not alternate between the two modes? I know this might be confusing but from a newbies point of view the aim of the game will still be to try and hold the flag in either case.

6 - Remove all the green spam from pure-pub its confusing and all the other random crap the the bot generates. The bot should simply record the time...and which freq is winning...nothing more...nothing less....The same bot should be in all pubs....pure-pub has the single change of it not allowing leviathans.

Can't even recall which spam you mean but then I generally pay little attention to anything and anyone spamming garbage anyway.

I think distension is a distraction from the problems we need to solve.

I agree. Let Distension players get on with it. Lets try and make other areas of TW as balanced and fun to play as Distension.

[jord]

was it infinite? i thought it drained if you had stealth+cloak, but not stealth+xradar or cloak+xradar...?

and didn't lanc's have one-hit kills? i don't want that again

yea, small weasels had 1020(?) energy i think, and it's energy drained when both stealth and cloak were used together. it also had no reps or rockets

we definitely don't want the old lanc back again

[Lizard Fuel]

How about some stats at the end of a pure pub round? Similar to a ?go base game, but more appropriate. Right now all you need to MVP is not change ships, which is sorta queer, and the "team leader" is the person who manages to touch the flag first most of the time, which is also queer. MVP should be the best player on the winning team for that round.

Also, I approve of the new voting thing in both pubs, its pretty neat.

As for new talent, we need more squads like brainwave out there. As much as I think midoent is laughable for thinking he's better than me at anything, he's done a great job holding that squad together, and raised a couple pretty decent basers who have moved on to better squads. If the zone could get at least 1 similiar squad specializing in JD and/or DD just like brainwave is in BD, then that would be a pretty good start.

My 2 cents on the wzl: If you are going to shrink it again, have cloak/stealth drain energy, but not if its going to remain big.

[Jones]

I doubt changing the settings will have any effect. I have no clue how to attract new players to this zone but I can tell you a little story instead.


Several years ago when I first started playing this zone I had no idea about the arenas except for pub. Years before when I played DSB with classmates in school we usually just went to ?go #tps (took me a while to remember how to get there, I was 12). So there I was flying with my rl friend Morh. Warbird was the thing or more specifically a good k/d score. Every day, every week, every reset I tried to get a better ratio, and I kept doing this for a few years actually.

HINT: Competitive players WANT as many kills as possible with as few deaths as possible, this is best done in warbirds. Although basing was fun, it wasn't as big for me personally.

Here comes the important part:

Squads. Squads, squads and more squads. You see, back then the squads with the most points on the website were something you wanted to be on. Time Lords/Floydians/LevTerr etc. All of these shared something in common, they were awesome basers. Or so I thought back then. Anyway, after getting to one of these I realized I wanted to become a dueler so naturally I joined the best warbird pub squad around; War Angels (for you newer people, when Phirewolf was the leader, it had nothing to do with basing, just simple, pure k/d ratios in pub). With this squad I got in squadwars, #sdsdfg for hot 3v3 action become common. Not long after this I started going to elim/belim etc, then twd was introduced and well, I sort of quit pubbing somewhere there.

HINT: To get new people to stay in the zone, you need good pub squads kicking ass, showing stuff and dominating. I don't even think there are any good pub squads anymore. The point is that, there were about 20 awesome pub squads, doing their, LTing, dueling and basing all over, and you wanted to become a member. And all this while remaining completely oblivious of squad like Siege, Elusive, Disoblige, Light.

Anyone remember the TWLB Cup in season 5, with Disoblige vs. Pallies? I do, it was awesome to watch, I took several screenshots and realized there was more to it than pub.

The tutorial arena is a good idea, but it needs to explain about TWL and TWD, elims, duel, base etc. Show links to your pubstat section on the TW Site. Also, zonering "Hit esc + a to see available arenas, such as elim, duel, base" is not a bad idea at all.

I may also reveal that thanks to one of these pub squads I visisted a twdl arena and even played in #mythrandir.

[Melon]

Relax the double squadding rules in TWD, relax the squad hopping rules...lets make it EASY for people to play TWD. If i had had the problems i had recently when i got accused of double squadding when i first signed up for TWD i probably wouldnt have bothered....Lets keep the draconian and harsh rules for TWL.

If you do this, I will dedicate my extra time to making a squad to help newbies learn TWD. This is something I would like to do, but I enjoy playing with my more skilled friends aswell. Back in the day I remember ppl would have 3-4 names for TWD that they would play on, maybe that's why our population was so high.

[Lizard Fuel]

If you do this, I will dedicate my extra time to making a squad to help newbies learn TWD. This is something I would like to do, but I enjoy playing with my more skilled friends aswell. Back in the day I remember ppl would have 3-4 names for TWD that they would play on, maybe that's why our population was so high.

Well Considering you stole 2 of my names, you shouldn't have a problem finding a name to double squad with. (Oh, they are both permanently twd banned, so don't bother)

[Melon]

Is it really stealing if I have the ?LP and lent them to a friend who has now quit? Get over it those names sucked anyways. And if you managed to get those names both twd banned for life, it goes to show how corrupt you really are. I see you are always asking for your positions back inside the game, but everything you have touched has been corrupted. If you pull yourself away from the TW politics and drama, you might actually be able to have fun on here again.

[Kontrolz]

Not trying to sound sarcastic here but... how about all of these "concerned" players on the forums get their asses out of private arenas, off the forums, and into the actual pubs?

Real basing actually occurs when you have 4 or 5 people at least on each team who know how to take the flag and hold it. This is how pub used to always be, older players dominate the flag so the newer players watch and learn. All these bots/commands/changes aren't going to do crap if we can't even get the older players who supposedly care about public arenas to even PLAY in them.

Yes, public arenas have teamkillers, trash talkers, etc but if everyone would simply play pub instead of distension or ?go base (which hurt pubs much more than distension) then maybe these newer pubbers could learn a thing or two. Maybe we'd have something that resembles basing going on for more than just an hour a day in pubs.

Problem 4 - supposed lack of new talent
Lack of decent new players "New TWD/TWL stars are few and far between these days"
Solution
Start to look around more...

This is how squads found talent before. A large majority of them still played pub so the newer players had people to learn from and were recognized much more quickly. This brought them into TWD which is deeper into the game and gave them a reason to stick around.

The problem is that the older players don't play pub. They spend much more time talking about how to "fix" publics than playing in them. Pub wouldn't be so bad if all the older players started playing it again, you wouldn't be stuck with idiot teammates or idiot enemies most of the time.

(Sorry if this derailed the important nickname dispute between lizard and melon)

[KuNi]

they should change weasel back to being small, same energy as now, but energy drains with both stealth and cloak