Public discussion reopened.

[Noah]

One of the problems with the pubs is that we dont get an overall feedback. Most of the pubbers we talk to are in forums and some in game. to help with this I am reviving the TWBeta chat for Zone Improvement and player input as well feel free to join and invite ?chat=TWBeta. With a larger group of players on this we can get a broader perspective of where we need to go.

I just have to say it is fucking brilliant how you manage to post in this thread without actually commenting on any of the feedback you got here. Why the fuck would I want to join your chat when you are already ignoring the feedback that has been provided in this thread?

[Noah]

For no stated reason there are levs in both pubs again. Can you please be consistent and let us have our pure pub?

I'm going to keep bumping this thread for every time I see this just to remind you how terrible job you are doing now, and I encourage everyone to do the same.

[Kontrolz]

Every time settings get changed in a vote, you annoy people. Those players that lost the vote get annoyed. Those that are forced to play differently, change ships or who now have to dodge levs are annoyed. Annoying players is not a good way of keeping them.

Its so much simpler and more elegant to have different pubs with different settings, that way players can settle into a pub secure in the knowledge that it won't change on you in 5 minutes time, and that any effort you put into capturing flag room (or bountying up a lev if thats your kink) won't be lost.

At the moment we have two "sports areas" and every 5 minutes everyone using them has to vote whether they want to play soccer or basketball. Why not just have one soccer pitch and one basketball court and let the players go to the one they want to play? If you saw this voting system in real life, you'd think it was ridiculous....

LEM

Excellent idea, 4 years late. With the population level of pubs so low you just can't have a pub for each game type.

[Lemmin]

Voting is a great way of pissing players off

Every time settings get changed in a vote, you annoy people. Those players that lost the vote get annoyed. Those that are forced to play differently, change ships or who now have to dodge levs are annoyed. Annoying players is not a good way of keeping them.

Its so much simpler and more elegant to have different pubs with different settings, that way players can settle into a pub secure in the knowledge that it won't change on you in 5 minutes time, and that any effort you put into capturing flag room (or bountying up a lev if thats your kink) won't be lost.

At the moment we have two "sports areas" and every 5 minutes everyone using them has to vote whether they want to play soccer or basketball. Why not just have one soccer pitch and one basketball court and let the players go to the one they want to play? If you saw this voting system in real life, you'd think it was ridiculous....

LEM

[DankNuggets]

I've had plenty of fun basing with levis in pub... it just has to be without private frequencies. With private frequencies AND levis, you almost always have one private team LT'ing. Inevitably, those two people (LT) will turn into 4-5 ppl (now LT,Shark,wbx2). After decimating the base for a few minutes from the outside, the LT will turn it's attention to getting the flag (more points for repels/portals). At this point, the public frequencies are starting to avoid the FR, and it's relatively easy for the private freq to dominate it with just a shark and a wb or lanc. Now you have everyone else trying to get on the winning (private) frequency, and half the people on the public frequency avoiding base. Lose-lose situation.

That same scenario, played out without private freqs, leads to a team strategically using an LT, or just reporting it for constant TKs. Let's face it: if the TKs were such a problem, then after just one teamfer, you'd have 3-5 ppl reporting the levi. In actuality, only maybe one person is really so pissed off they report it. The team will likely have less levis because they won't be able to have a LTx5 that doesn't TK the entire frequency (which should be self-limiting). Or, even better for the basers, you will find that no one's willing to drive the levis around anymore (terrs should be punished for TKs too, but I'm not sure how to go about it).

The most fun I've ever had a normal pub map was LTing on a public freq with a terrier that knew how to not force TKs and keep the flag. I think I got a million points pretty fast that reset, and I was just giddy at how effective a LT could be with competent people on board.

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For the sake of compromise, I just think we should reinstitute the 'no levis' vote. Personally, I'd like it to just be a restricted ship, a la javs and x's now. One or two levis shouldn't "ruin" a pub.

Cheese had a point, whether or not he articulated it, when he said "There are 8 ships".

The current restrictions and proposed ones severly limit the pub experience. I'm sorry, but "grooming pubbers for TWLB" isn't the only approach or purpose of the pub. Correct me if I'm wrong since you guys have so much firsthand experience, but weren't the pubs created before TWLB? It's great to choose people who take to that style in pub, but certainly the TWLD people do it just as much with the "aimless idiots" dueling around in the spawn. Obviously it's not the only path one must take to advance from the pubs, should people even decide they want to.

There's no LT league, nor is there a mini-weasel league, so I can see why people who have left pub behind seem to care less about these ships. The only place to play as a levi is pub, pure and simple. I can't even think of a good event that uses levis right now. Cloakers suck as they are now in comparison to the mini ones. Any argument for or against big/small cloakers focuses not on the enjoyment or ease of playing the ship, but only on how to render it useless or ineffective. This is a great disservice to the ship, and to continuum/ss in general.


I love getting huge teamfers, I said it earlier. But at the same time, I'd rather see levis "nerfed" with smaller bombs than to see their use restricted to obscurity or extinction. Same goes for weasels. These ships are lonely, they have no "home" in TW besides pub. You want to "help out" newer players by making pub more like a transition to basing, but what's it a transition from if you restrict the ship choices to those of ?go base? It's just a dumbed-down, less exciting form of ?go base in that case.

It's supposed to be a general catch-all, where you can come into the game with NO experience, and learn all the ships and basic styles of gameplay.

[bounty]

Keep the levi as it is... just have one pub for basing. LEVI power!

[roxxkatt]

yes, newbies want to pull ships out of the game.

a much wiser idea would be to change them to be acceptable.

[Liquid Blue]

One of the problems with the pubs is that we dont get an overall feedback. Most of the pubbers we talk to are in forums and some in game. to help with this I am reviving the TWBeta chat for Zone Improvement and player input as well feel free to join and invite ?chat=TWBeta. With a larger group of players on this we can get a broader perspective of where we need to go.

Hope you send a zoner message for that chat dads : )

Also, is there any way to make it so that the voting system works only after it has a certain number of votes? I was in pub the other day and the vote for private freqs got passed with 3 yes and 2 no's. The pub had about 30+ players in it, so I don't think the voice of 5 people represent the entire pub.

These would definitely be great in really bringing some positive changes to pub. Maybe over the span of a week we could have a few ER's to go to pub and record the chat log right after they ask about suggestions for pub changes. If we can get as much feedback as possible from the people while they're actually in pub, then we can be that much closer to adding in changes that the majority will actually agree with.

Alot of stuff

The LT event idea was just that, an idea. I don't LT so I'm not exactly sure about what the best way to go for an LT event would be, but it was something I wanted to put out there. 90% of my time in pub is in a terrier but I'm not going to go out on a limb and try to speak for all "modern" terriers, especially considering there are so many different opinions on LT'ing and what should be allowed in pub anyway. I'm merely trying to add some constructive suggestions instead of whining about how the zone is dying. (note, I'm not talking about you, just people who aren't posting in this topic)

Thanks for the input though, I'm glad we have alot of people here coming to the topic. It's the only way change can occur, if we have views from around the entire table, pitching in.

[Noah]

I really feel the need to clean this up. Do you think this would be fun? What idiot as an LT would go inside base knowing that there are 9 other LTs around, including yours who can and WILL TK you while you're in there. And who would you even be shooting in base AT? IDK about you, but I think I speak for myself and ALL modern terriers in TW when I say that LT'ing is about trying to survive other hunters, and getting the best record/bounty in one run. It's not about fighting other LT's, it's not like when I have an enormous base full of blue radar people that I'd prefer another LT to jump in on the action and take a good portion of those kills, fuck that, I'd always love to be the only LT in the arena.

This is awesome. You want to be the only LT, and you want to have base filled with basers to shoot at. Let's ignore the facts like basers only likes to base when a lev isn't fucking up the basing, and that if you want to play lev yourself you have to be cool playing when everyone else gets to do like you. Basing isn't fun when everything gets blown up by something that has nothing to do with real basing.

I think doing something like this would be like taking away you know... something like two linebackers teaming up to take one guy down in football, it's something everyone who plays wants/loves to do, and it's something that's become pretty traditional for two dominant players to do sort of as a showboating thing, or removing Distension because it overcrowds the server and isn't even really a part of TW. LTing has been around for years, like, a very, very long time, and it'd be a shame to butcher this pastime to a degree further than it's been fucked by the 'purepub' anyway. You want people to base? Make ?go base more appealing, make an amateur go base where the pubbers who no one knows will get picked by other pub captains. Yeah, the go base adverts have brought around .1% of the population (yeah, .1, not 1) of pubs to base, and like maybe 1/10 of the .1% of the population (.01%) will even get picked. No one helps them learn the commands, or how to get in, or the way it's played either.

The best way to ease players into basing is by having a casual pub that is directed towards basing. Some pure pub games can turn out to be a decently leveled basing game despite being a pub. You can still have a pub like in the old days, but since there's an overweight of basers that wants to play without terrs, that should be the second one.

You'll ruin mine, and maybe 30 other player's favorite thing-to-do-when-not-BD'ing by removing LTing, and I speak for these guys when I say it's pretty disappointing.

Maybe 30 players? That's even less than I thought it would be. I bet that as this thread goes on you'll have more here alone that wants levs out of the Pure Pub. If not out then atleast put the vote in and let the majority choose (which will be without a lev).

Basically your fun in playing lev is ruining others fun in basing. So if you want to complain about getting your fun ruined then don't the same thing to us.

[Pressure]

-"LT Pub" (4 teams of 5, no other frequencies allowed. Two levi's max per team. 5 last spots are for spectators/bots/ER's)

I really feel the need to clean this up. Do you think this would be fun? What idiot as an LT would go inside base knowing that there are 9 other LTs around, including yours who can and WILL TK you while you're in there. And who would you even be shooting in base AT? IDK about you, but I think I speak for myself and ALL modern terriers in TW when I say that LT'ing is about trying to survive other hunters, and getting the best record/bounty in one run. It's not about fighting other LT's, it's not like when I have an enormous base full of blue radar people that I'd prefer another LT to jump in on the action and take a good portion of those kills, fuck that, I'd always love to be the only LT in the arena.

I think doing something like this would be like taking away you know... something like two linebackers teaming up to take one guy down in football, it's something everyone who plays wants/loves to do, and it's something that's become pretty traditional for two dominant players to do sort of as a showboating thing, or removing Distension because it overcrowds the server and isn't even really a part of TW. LTing has been around for years, like, a very, very long time, and it'd be a shame to butcher this pastime to a degree further than it's been fucked by the 'purepub' anyway. You want people to base? Make ?go base more appealing, make an amateur go base where the pubbers who no one knows will get picked by other pub captains. Yeah, the go base adverts have brought around .1% of the population (yeah, .1, not 1) of pubs to base, and like maybe 1/10 of the .1% of the population (.01%) will even get picked. No one helps them learn the commands, or how to get in, or the way it's played either.

You'll ruin mine, and maybe 30 other player's favorite thing-to-do-when-not-BD'ing by removing LTing, and I speak for these guys when I say it's pretty disappointing.

[project dragon]

Hope you send a zoner message for that chat dads : )

Also, is there any way to make it so that the voting system works only after it has a certain number of votes? I was in pub the other day and the vote for private freqs got passed with 3 yes and 2 no's. The pub had about 30+ players in it, so I don't think the voice of 5 people represent the entire pub.

[Doc Flabby]

I've covered all of this already.

http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthread.php?t=35540

A simple list of fixes that will put the zone back on its feet.

Sakke1 pointed out Another setting that needs changing is once a pub gets to 25 it should punt players entering to 2nd pub, to ensure they keep an even distritbution.

[dads revenge]

One of the problems with the pubs is that we dont get an overall feedback. Most of the pubbers we talk to are in forums and some in game. to help with this I am reviving the TWBeta chat for Zone Improvement and player input as well feel free to join and invite ?chat=TWBeta. With a larger group of players on this we can get a broader perspective of where we need to go.

[Noah]

i never really liked what moot did, although he did some stuff really well.
however, moot did an excellent job in comparison to anything dads has done.

to all the newbs that want to make pub 3 ships, know this:
THERE ARE 8 SHIPS.

There are 8 ships for TWLB too, but for some reason the lev has been restricted. Those same reasons can be applied to restricting lev from a pure pub as well. "There are 8 ships" is pretty much the shittiest argument you can come up with.

Good job on making your post look serious by calling everyone who wants something else for newbs!

[roxxkatt]

i never really liked what moot did, although he did some stuff really well.
however, moot did an excellent job in comparison to anything dads has done.

to all the newbs that want to make pub 3 ships, know this:
THERE ARE 8 SHIPS.