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I'm in no way trying to start a flame war, nor am I trying to presume anyone is actually cheating/hacking. This is just an article I found which seemed to relate a lot towards a theory of my own making, over the years of actually playing this game.
Anyways, I just thought this would be an interesting read. Also, I understand this particular article has nothing to do with Subspace: Continuum. Though I find the similarities in what I've noticed to be quite accurate.
The article can be found here, but I'll just copy paste all material here.
Do Cheat Clients Induce Lag on Servers
-------------------------------------------
Kazper
03-10-2003, 06:31 PM
I have a strong suspision that cheats running on client MOHAA machines may in fact induce a specific and unique form of lag into the server to which they connect.
Its a theory I cannot at this stage verify it or prove. As I require more information regarding how the MOHAA Client and Server interact.
And how data is sent and what data specifically is sent to a MOHAA client from a MOHAA server.
My observation however are suggestive that a MOHAA client running cheats like "Retribution" or Safeskins or Wall Hacks may actually put more load on the server to which it is conncected.
How?
As an active anti-cheater I have become quite familiar with all of the present cheats/hacke out there for MOHAA and it was whilst testing them privately that I observed a particular type of lag that would happen when I moved around the map, the lag consisted of a distinct jerkyness.
The objects in particular walls etc seemed to jump and freeze for a second prior to being renderred. Once renderred they were of course transparent or revealed players behind the walls in bright colours.
I didn't think much of this, accept to say it was part of the cheat impacting on my client/server.
However after deleting all the cheats, and doing a clean install of MOHAA up to patch 1.11 I noticed no such lag on my private server.
Apon going onto a public server which I visit often I noticed symptoms of lag very much like those I had expeienced privately.
My ping was 50mS max, the other 16 players were on sub 60mS pings. At around the same time I pressed TAB and noticed 2 players with 65mS pings with scores of 67/10 and 85/14 on a TDM match with FF off.
I thought this to be very odd and spectated them for a few maps and there scores pretty much followed from map to map. Regardless of weapon or opposition.
It was then that I realised the lag also was present from map to map, and especially when one would come into contact or be near one of these aforementioned players in game.
Its interesting to note that when the said players left the game. The lag also ceased.
It is my opnion that a cheating client puts more load on a server by reason that it makes more requests for positioning of objects and rendering of objects then that of a non cheating client.
This quite simply means the server is sending more data to the client to render on the client such objects as people behind walls that would not normally be renderred by the client. As a non cheating client would not need to render a player behind a wall or door.
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say here. And I could very well be totally wrong, But its a theory I have and I'd welcome feedback from anyone who can help either prove or disprove it.
If it can be proven, it may be an alternative avenue for anti-cheat tools to use to catch potential cheaters.
Thanks
Kazper.
-------------------------------------------
UnDead
03-13-2003, 08:21 PM
I have noticed this too. That some players carry a bubble around them and when you go into there bubble you experience the lag. But when your not near those players the lag ceases. Of course the bubble is invisable but it has a diameter about the size of there viewing area. Not all players have this, and I am not sure if this bubble of lag is just because there computers suck donkey nuts, or there isp sucks, or there cheating with some wallhack or permutation pk3's. Only time will tell.
I wish people didn't have to cheat in mutiplayer games, I could careless in single player because the computer cheats too
But in multiplayer its like playing a kids soccer game and having everyone like 13year old and then one kid who is like 20 and saying hes only 13. The 20 year old is stronger more developed muscles and smarter. It would be totally unfair and lame. Grow up and don't cheat in multiplayer.
Thats one thing I like about console gaming (non internet) or lan parties is that nobody can use cheats because others will see. Check this link out for how to deal with cheaters!
http://ev.dhs.org/videos/wmv/Lantroc...ater%20busted/
Choose which bandwidth file you want. Its what every cheater needs, an ass whooping
-------------------------------------------
Floyd
03-16-2003, 08:13 PM
RE: the lan party.
Don't you wish you could send the cheat police over to someone's house to do that!!!!!!!
RE: The "bubble"
Perhaps that is why Holland on my rented server has been lagging so bad lately......Its a poorly programmed map, apparently with very little view clipping (making everyones field of view HUGE)...Lots of data to draw..
Very interesting theory.....any programmers with ideas?
Floyd
-------------------------------------------
Defiant
03-25-2003, 10:11 AM
I run MOHAA CI,Delator,and Crowkings Auto kick on my server,when i first got my server the first thing i did was download every cheat and hack i could find,i had no problem finding them,i actually got them off only two popular cheat sites.
I used them one at a time to see if they could be detected,some were some were not,but after reading this post, i tried using the ones that could not be detected,ie retribution,zzzchamleons,etc.
first thing i noticed was that my ping was higher,(this was on my server,where normally i ping at 50 or less)
These hacks use what to me are very bright skins,i am assuming that because of this it would affect your ping and FPS,correct?
If this is the case then it would help trying to pin-point the ones who are using the hacks,not that i would ban everyone with a high ping,but by looking at some of these outrageous scores and then checking the consistency of their pings on different maps.
Hopefully one day someone will come up with something to detect them before they totally destroy this great game.
-------------------------------------------
bclemens
07-22-2003, 02:39 AM
This may be an old topic, but from what I've seen it does indeed induce lag. But maybe we are just paranoid. I am sure a program could be made with a simple math calculation with a LAG to Kills ratio, and factor in the deaths, could be very very helpful!
-------------------------------------------
Wizz
05-31-2005, 06:46 AM
Well this thread is a good one. Im glad someone else has noticed the "lag" issues with some peeps. Yes I know for a fact that cheats do infact introduce lag on a server.
Another thing to watch out for is the players "RATE" value. In mohaa ci see what the players rate is, if its 9999 then try to force it. Do that a couple of time, lets say 3 times. Wait for mohaaci to complete the scan. If the rate stays at 99999 then the player is using a cheat.
I have tested this and once the cheat was removed my rate went back to normal and could be forced by either mohaaci, delator.
Also I do know that there are some great players out there in mohaa, cod, coduo and other games. But if a player is nailing you instantly and they can pick you off 100 miles away and their rate is locked at 99999 then they are running a cheat period.
Way back when mohaa was first released the cheaters were blanant in their cheat use. It didnt matter, but now some cheaters keeps the hax down to not to draw attention to them. But never the less a full player scan with forcing some player attributes using mohaaci can pick the cheaters out. Some of them use a hax that " will not allow changes " made to them, ss blockers, you name it. But with mohaaci you can try some things on the player to see if those values can be changed.
Some cheats takes alot of resources to run, wallhacks, aimbots, multihacks and so forth will be a server hog. These are set to be wide open to the server to pull as much info as possible to the cheating player. Hence the rate being at 99999. Again if you can NOT force a rate on the player then without a doubt that player is using a cheat. There is no reputable mod that will cause this. A good mod that has no built in hax will not cause a rate value of 99999.
Anyways, I just thought this would be an interesting read. Also, I understand this particular article has nothing to do with Subspace: Continuum. Though I find the similarities in what I've noticed to be quite accurate.
The article can be found here, but I'll just copy paste all material here.
Do Cheat Clients Induce Lag on Servers
-------------------------------------------
Kazper
03-10-2003, 06:31 PM
I have a strong suspision that cheats running on client MOHAA machines may in fact induce a specific and unique form of lag into the server to which they connect.
Its a theory I cannot at this stage verify it or prove. As I require more information regarding how the MOHAA Client and Server interact.
And how data is sent and what data specifically is sent to a MOHAA client from a MOHAA server.
My observation however are suggestive that a MOHAA client running cheats like "Retribution" or Safeskins or Wall Hacks may actually put more load on the server to which it is conncected.
How?
As an active anti-cheater I have become quite familiar with all of the present cheats/hacke out there for MOHAA and it was whilst testing them privately that I observed a particular type of lag that would happen when I moved around the map, the lag consisted of a distinct jerkyness.
The objects in particular walls etc seemed to jump and freeze for a second prior to being renderred. Once renderred they were of course transparent or revealed players behind the walls in bright colours.
I didn't think much of this, accept to say it was part of the cheat impacting on my client/server.
However after deleting all the cheats, and doing a clean install of MOHAA up to patch 1.11 I noticed no such lag on my private server.
Apon going onto a public server which I visit often I noticed symptoms of lag very much like those I had expeienced privately.
My ping was 50mS max, the other 16 players were on sub 60mS pings. At around the same time I pressed TAB and noticed 2 players with 65mS pings with scores of 67/10 and 85/14 on a TDM match with FF off.
I thought this to be very odd and spectated them for a few maps and there scores pretty much followed from map to map. Regardless of weapon or opposition.
It was then that I realised the lag also was present from map to map, and especially when one would come into contact or be near one of these aforementioned players in game.
Its interesting to note that when the said players left the game. The lag also ceased.
It is my opnion that a cheating client puts more load on a server by reason that it makes more requests for positioning of objects and rendering of objects then that of a non cheating client.
This quite simply means the server is sending more data to the client to render on the client such objects as people behind walls that would not normally be renderred by the client. As a non cheating client would not need to render a player behind a wall or door.
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say here. And I could very well be totally wrong, But its a theory I have and I'd welcome feedback from anyone who can help either prove or disprove it.
If it can be proven, it may be an alternative avenue for anti-cheat tools to use to catch potential cheaters.
Thanks
Kazper.
-------------------------------------------
UnDead
03-13-2003, 08:21 PM
I have noticed this too. That some players carry a bubble around them and when you go into there bubble you experience the lag. But when your not near those players the lag ceases. Of course the bubble is invisable but it has a diameter about the size of there viewing area. Not all players have this, and I am not sure if this bubble of lag is just because there computers suck donkey nuts, or there isp sucks, or there cheating with some wallhack or permutation pk3's. Only time will tell.
I wish people didn't have to cheat in mutiplayer games, I could careless in single player because the computer cheats too
But in multiplayer its like playing a kids soccer game and having everyone like 13year old and then one kid who is like 20 and saying hes only 13. The 20 year old is stronger more developed muscles and smarter. It would be totally unfair and lame. Grow up and don't cheat in multiplayer.Thats one thing I like about console gaming (non internet) or lan parties is that nobody can use cheats because others will see. Check this link out for how to deal with cheaters!
http://ev.dhs.org/videos/wmv/Lantroc...ater%20busted/
Choose which bandwidth file you want. Its what every cheater needs, an ass whooping
-------------------------------------------
Floyd
03-16-2003, 08:13 PM
RE: the lan party.
Don't you wish you could send the cheat police over to someone's house to do that!!!!!!!
RE: The "bubble"
Perhaps that is why Holland on my rented server has been lagging so bad lately......Its a poorly programmed map, apparently with very little view clipping (making everyones field of view HUGE)...Lots of data to draw..
Very interesting theory.....any programmers with ideas?
Floyd
-------------------------------------------
Defiant
03-25-2003, 10:11 AM
I run MOHAA CI,Delator,and Crowkings Auto kick on my server,when i first got my server the first thing i did was download every cheat and hack i could find,i had no problem finding them,i actually got them off only two popular cheat sites.
I used them one at a time to see if they could be detected,some were some were not,but after reading this post, i tried using the ones that could not be detected,ie retribution,zzzchamleons,etc.
first thing i noticed was that my ping was higher,(this was on my server,where normally i ping at 50 or less)
These hacks use what to me are very bright skins,i am assuming that because of this it would affect your ping and FPS,correct?
If this is the case then it would help trying to pin-point the ones who are using the hacks,not that i would ban everyone with a high ping,but by looking at some of these outrageous scores and then checking the consistency of their pings on different maps.
Hopefully one day someone will come up with something to detect them before they totally destroy this great game.
-------------------------------------------
bclemens
07-22-2003, 02:39 AM
This may be an old topic, but from what I've seen it does indeed induce lag. But maybe we are just paranoid. I am sure a program could be made with a simple math calculation with a LAG to Kills ratio, and factor in the deaths, could be very very helpful!
-------------------------------------------
Wizz
05-31-2005, 06:46 AM
Well this thread is a good one. Im glad someone else has noticed the "lag" issues with some peeps. Yes I know for a fact that cheats do infact introduce lag on a server.
Another thing to watch out for is the players "RATE" value. In mohaa ci see what the players rate is, if its 9999 then try to force it. Do that a couple of time, lets say 3 times. Wait for mohaaci to complete the scan. If the rate stays at 99999 then the player is using a cheat.
I have tested this and once the cheat was removed my rate went back to normal and could be forced by either mohaaci, delator.
Also I do know that there are some great players out there in mohaa, cod, coduo and other games. But if a player is nailing you instantly and they can pick you off 100 miles away and their rate is locked at 99999 then they are running a cheat period.
Way back when mohaa was first released the cheaters were blanant in their cheat use. It didnt matter, but now some cheaters keeps the hax down to not to draw attention to them. But never the less a full player scan with forcing some player attributes using mohaaci can pick the cheaters out. Some of them use a hax that " will not allow changes " made to them, ss blockers, you name it. But with mohaaci you can try some things on the player to see if those values can be changed.
Some cheats takes alot of resources to run, wallhacks, aimbots, multihacks and so forth will be a server hog. These are set to be wide open to the server to pull as much info as possible to the cheating player. Hence the rate being at 99999. Again if you can NOT force a rate on the player then without a doubt that player is using a cheat. There is no reputable mod that will cause this. A good mod that has no built in hax will not cause a rate value of 99999.