Helping New Players.. a bit of madening

[roxxkatt]

Is there a way with TWbots for people to send commands in pub chat instead of priv chat, like in EG? It could help with one of the most basic hurdles that newcomers walk into when getting help from a bot. Then the bot can show whatever it has to show, then tell them how to respond in an pm.

this is a terrible idea, the pub is getting spammed enough as it is by retards like tower and idiots like lf and spock spamming kill macros

[roxxkatt]

One of the pub things we had discussed this past weekend is newplayers.
We have a few ideas that are being worked on concerning it. The F1 menu will be updated to be more newbie friendly, also the !newplayer objons and !tutorial are being reworked already. Perhaps having !tutorial take the player to a private arena (and alert staff/Trusted Players in the process) would help out a bit with that.

you keep forgetting that genuinely new players dont know about f1, and dont pay attention to chat, and dont know how to pm bots

have a forced objon that is open for a very long time, with nice long timers so they have time to read the boxes that are impossible to miss, and have a !disable option

[roxxkatt]

c-c-c-c-combo breaker

[fiS]

have a forced objon that is open for a very long time, with nice long timers so they have time to read the boxes that are impossible to miss, and have a !disable option

Since we are working on these objects (and we already have them, just ?go and do !quickhelp, or ask any staffer to do the newplayer specific objons on you to see them), what do you suggest to improve on them?

[ogron]

a version of ?go base should be in the main pub arena, and you should have to manually type !queue to get out of it like you currently type !warp -- so new players get thrown into some exciting basing action rather than be stuck in spawn or in a dead pub basing game or getting ransacked by LTs.

Make it first to 5 minutes, and let the bot auto pick teams, and put an unkillable robo terr sitting permanently on each side so everyone can attach to and fight in flagroom for 5 minutes no matter how bad each team is.

Anyone currently who loves pub can just unqueue and go about their business, and those interested in basing can hop in, welcomers can help ppl out, and newcomers get thrown into spider dueling for the flag in a close-quarter battle where they WILL get tons of kills reinforcing their desire to keep playing and improve.

Pub is generally shit, full of specials, and an awful way to introduce people to this wonderful game with many facets and interesting leagues/events. It's so unfocused and random it should not be where players start.

[fiS]

a version of ?go base should be in the main pub arena, and you should have to manually type !queue to get out of it like you currently type !warp -- so new players get thrown into some exciting basing action rather than be stuck in spawn or in a dead pub basing game or getting ransacked by LTs.

I agree, new player stuck in spawn seems to be a problem. But the issue with that is them not knowing how to attach, or how to move their ship. Your idea wouldn't solve this. Not everyone thinks that basing is exciting, especially because it's limited to 3 main ships.

Make it first to 5 minutes, and let the bot auto pick teams, and put an unkillable robo terr sitting permanently on each side so everyone can attach to and fight in flagroom for 5 minutes no matter how bad each team is.

Unkillable terr makes it extremely fun, because once one team gains an advantage, they can just keep shooting the bot/terr to DOA the entire team for minutes straight.

Anyone currently who loves pub can just unqueue and go about their business, and those interested in basing can hop in, welcomers can help ppl out, and newcomers get thrown into spider dueling for the flag in a close-quarter battle where they WILL get tons of kills reinforcing their desire to keep playing and improve.

Those who are interested can just type ?go base. And that's what they do, and prey that they'll get picked and not subbed if they suck. I hope you realize that spidering in base or pub isn't as easy as you're thinking it is. Spider takes a lot of practise to kill people with, hell, I'd never recommend a newplayer to start in spider. I rather think that the feature that you're suggesting to implement would attract more vets, most likely not even going to be used by pubbers (due to the most people being aware of ?go base...), and if, newplayers getting rocked isn't really a pro for this feature.

Pub is generally shit, full of specials, and an awful way to introduce people to this wonderful game with many facets and interesting leagues/events. It's so unfocused and random it should not be where players start.

Pub is shit? That's your opinion. Full of specials, which show diversity to the game and make pub the way it is. You're not limited or excluded from using the ship that you desire to use. You can't compare pub to TWD. Players who play the game long enough will one day make the step "outside" of pub and try new stuff and play the game like they want it to. A "?go Base" feature isn't going to help it, it would just kill pub entirely, since it would decrease ~10 players off the pub base game.

[Ephemeral]

fis - Pub 0 is shit. This isnt an opinion it is based on the fact that Pub 0 isn't working properly. Working properly means that it retains new players. If it was exciting and fun we wouldn't be losing players.

Claus - I’m not sure that a mandated ?go base solution is the right thing for Pub 0 but it seems to me that it is undeniable that Pub 0 has morphed into something that no longer ‘new player friendly’.

Virtual every game has a ‘beginner’ mode or level for good reason, you cannot expect new players to stick with a game when they getting owned from the first minute. Human nature is that few people are going to have the egos and perseverance to start learning a game where they feel like they are the worse in the game and will have to invest hundreds of hours to even be competitive.
But instead of embracing the team play and other attributes of Pub 0 that mad the game popular Pub 0 is now filled with ‘features’ designed to entice and reward more experienced players to own the newer players. ‘Features’ like ‘kill-a-thons’, LTs, or to ?buy win pub bucks are all stacking the deck against newer, less experienced players and the very teamwork that made TW popular.

Yesterday morning I thought I would play some Pub 0. I joined a frequency 1 because it had 7 less players on it and had just lost 3 games in a row. More players joined and as the game progressed there were great flag room battles and control toggled back and forth between the two frequencies. Then a ‘vet’ and a staffer selfishly decided that it was a good time to climb into a private frequency LT and rain bombs down on the FR. Within a few minutes many players simply quit and the competitive game dissolved.

How many times does this have to happen before we figure out the problem? Or asked another way, have many times has anyone seen people leave Pub 0 or a game ruined because no one wanted to private frequency LT? But in the desperate attempt to retain population TW has attempted to make Pub 0 an arena that is ‘all things to all players’. New players are expected to simply be fodder for staff LTs, kill-a-thons and pub buck whores.

It is obvious that we cannot count on experienced players doing the right thing; I have never seen new players in a LT ruin a competitive base game. As far as I can see the ‘features’ that have been tried to assist the new players are all FAIL. I joined the Welcomebot early on and ‘helped’ new players for several weeks. What I found was that many, many people do NOT like, or even expect, to interact with a human. Several time I had a new player immediately log off after trying to open a discussion with them. It is like walking into a store and having a clerk immediately ask if they can help you, I find many player simply want ‘to look around’ without being confronted by another person. And frankly no amount of tutorials or help is going to help a newer player when you have staff/vets owning them up in Pub 0.

Is one solution to mandate Pub 0 as a ‘beginner’ level? It is certainly possible make Pub 0 exclusively for newer players (via either name or IP) but mandating things can often cause additional problems. But rather than a drastic step such as mandating player experience levels for Pub 0 why not start with removing the ‘features’ which are rewarding the experienced players? Allow Pub 0 LTs but no private frequency LTs. Spawning has always occurred but why not get rid of the kill-a-thons? And the ?buy win pub bucks has to be the single most damning thing that crushes a new player experience. A new player logs in and spends an hour learning a ship and weapons; only to find that his team loses when we allow only experienced players to ?buy win.

I do not believe that mandating Pub 0 as a ‘noob’ arena is the right approach. But I do support removing the ‘features’ that are designed to keep experienced players in Pub 0 at the expense of new players.
eph

[Demonic]

Interesting points eph, what would you suggest?? Going back to 2 pubs, one with pure basing to allow levs?? Only trouble I found with pure basing was I couldn't get on a privfreq and try to take base with a few others. What I do agree with however is levs ARE an issue.

[LF]

Why not 2 pubs? Pub 0 could be default arena with levs disabled and no !buy system, essentially pub from 10 years ago. Private frequencies could be allowed. This would be the arena new players would be introduced to. Default should be 100% newbie friendly and despite the huge bias of some staffers that enjoy LTing they don't need to be nerfed they need to be gone entirely, at least in the newbie arena. They can be introduced later as a sort of bonus I guess because everyone loves a random stray 10fer when the newbie "graduates" to the more populated Pub 1. I would also stress that more regulation needs to be put into monitoring the chat in publics but I've already touched on that elsewhere. Overall well stated eph, I feel like we veterans as an entire group are not doing ourselves any favors by the way we treat our newbies and that needs to change so all of this effort to lure them here doesn't become moot

I have lots of ideas for a newbie friendly tutorial that would bounce them all over the map and show them the ins and outs of TW Basing AND Dueling in all the different ships but I do not have the means or the knowledge to implement them, since I have absolutely no clue how to code a bot, maybe thats something I can work with dral on we will see.

[Stayon]

Don't worry mates. There's 5 ways of making em newbies keep playing this eternal game.

#1 'The Honest Approach' When they ask for help, the ESQ+Q command is the one I give.

#2 'The New Sun' I tell em that pressing their modem button is ok and an old trick everyone uses to win.

#3 'Harsh Truth' TKing, Spamming, Trash talking

#4 'The Tears of Joy' Me and a pack of my distension (the arena that is making TW grow again) mates, usually 3 or 4, we hunt down any newbie that resembles having just started.

#5 'The Loop' If they are smart and resiliant, I show em http://www.trenchwars.org/donationdetails/ and some old forum links with staffers quitting, so they can check staff's amazing job over the years and also to witness how hopeless all of this is.

Since February 12th, 23 new confirmed players have decided to unistall.

[Ephemeral]

Interesting points eph, what would you suggest?? Going back to 2 pubs, one with pure basing to allow levs?? Only trouble I found with pure basing was I couldn't get on a privfreq and try to take base with a few others. What I do agree with however is levs ARE an issue.

I do not think that Levs are an issue. The diversity of ship types, weapons, and maps are plenty to learn and hold the attention of new players in my opinion. And let’s face it, will all remember the fun of climbing into the more powerful ships and blowing other ships away. While team-killing is not great for teamwork or team play collateral damage is a part of the game and should remain so.

I feel the same about LTs in general; I see nothing inconsistent with the mission of TW to allow a LT to ‘soften’ a flag room while the rest of the frequency tries to over-take it.

But private frequency LTs being manned by experienced players who are not even trying to take the flag room is simply bad for Pub 0 and the game in general. It appears to me to be several ways to prevent this from happening.

But simply preventing experienced private frequency LTs is only one part of rethinking Pub 0. I suggest revisiting all the ‘features’ which end up ‘rewarding’ experienced players from coming into Pub 0 and owning newer players. Experienced players will always be more skillful than newer players, we don’t need extra incentives to own them.
That said, there is great value in having experienced players in Pub 0 since they assist new players by demonstrating skills. Perhaps we need to come up with solutions which ‘reward’ new players in Pub 0, make Pub 0 more challenging for experienced players.
eph


edit: wow editing a post is still a pain in the ass.

[Jones]

You are all doing this the wrong way! New players should be in the spawn area and play warbirds, learn how to get good, racking up k:d ratio. Basing is and has always been the last step people choose to go to when they realize they aren't good enuff for warbirds. Skills for the people! Go warbird and don't look back!

[Jones]

stayons post and his ability to use the internet has been sponsored by finnish tax payers money from 2012 and onwards