TW-General Revisited (WingZero, PLEASE Consider Implementing This)

[Pressure]

WingZero, PLEASE Consider Implementing This

I have suggested TW General for a few months right now, and I feel like not one upper staff member has even noticed. Every player who I enlighten with this idea thinks it's a great way to change this zone for the better, but nothing is done about it. This post is to rehash and thoroughly discuss the potential of the following innovation:

Drop the individual arenas of ?go base, ?go javduel, ?go wbduel, and ?go elim, and merge them with pub to form "TW-General." Any other TWD/event related matches can be played in their own, extraneous arena. If go base, pub, wbduel, javduel, and elim were all capable of running in the same arena, roughly 80% of what is actively going on in TW will be going on in not only one arena, but the arena that all new players see as soon as they enter TW.

Here are just some of the benefits of a General Arena:

• Makes it easier for new players to navigate TW

• Exposes players to all aspects of play in each ship, and each league, without ruining the integrity of pub or other events. Some may argue that having ?go base running in pub would take away from pub basing itself, but go base runs parallel to pub anyway. Not everyone wants to dedicate 20-30 minutes to a basing match. Some newbies aren't even aware of how to change arenas, do you think they're all even aware that arenas like ?go base exists?
• Gives beginners who are brand new a chance to watch, first hand, the players they should be aspiring to be in the zone. Part of what makes TW so appealing is the skill ladder that you must climb to gain respect of your peers. ?go base, ?go elim, ?go javduel, ?go wbduel have, for the most part, lost all of their prestige. If these arenas were moved, and the games were being played in pub, 50+ players would be watching each game hourly. These would certainly incentivize players to play these games, and prove themselves.
• Players who normally just "hang out" in wbduel/base/javduel/etc would be forced to populate TW-General if they want to continue hanging out with the crews that populate those arenas.
• Players who wouldn't normally play javduel or base, players that would rather afk in wbduel, might find interest in playing something else just because it's running right in front of them.

As stated, these are just SOME of the potential positives of merging all of our active competitive arenas into one. Now, some of you may be thinking this would make TW even more cluttered, more confusing, and more intimidating to new players. This is how I imagine it would work, using JavDuel as an example (yes, some of these ideas are indeed borrowed from Extreme Games):

• BaseBot, JavDuelBot, WBDuelBot, and RoboBot would all be stationed in TW-General
• Two players decide they want to start JavDuel.
• Players message one of the bots !cap, and the game begins.
• Throughout the adding period, players can designate themselves to being an eligible JavDuel player by PM'ing the JavDuelBot with !play or !p
• The captains can see the list of eligible players by PM'ing the JavDuelBot !gameinfo or !gi (i.e. -- JavDuelBot> Available players: Ease, megaman89, Amputate, etc.)
• A captain !add's players, and as players are added they are immediately spawned into the JavDuel base spawn arena.
• The game begins, and the bot keeps score of each game and statistic and releases them to the public at the end of the match via blue chat and trenchwars.org, just like it normally would, but there are no automatic scoreresets. Players can choose to scorereset on their own, otherwise the kills/deaths would be added to their pub score
• Game ends, players are free to do what they want
• Repeat

The same concept would carry over for the basing, warbird, and elim matches. Some of you may be wondering, "well, what about the other pub players, where will they spawn?" I have a general layout for a massively influential change in pub that I do think should be put into effect:

• Remove levs and weasels completely. These ships have traditional ties to the core of the zone, but if you've noticed, traditional pub is long gone. As other staffers and veteran players agree, people only play these ships to be annoying, and to troll. It's time to change it up and showcase to new players the redeeming aspects of each league so they want to come back for more
• Alongside the pub base, the elim area, the javduel area, the wbduel area, and the ?go base area, there will be a newly added warbird FREE-FOR-ALL area (similar to the spawn area that is in pub, currently), and a newly added jav FREE-FOR-ALL area (similar to the arena in ?go javs).

Choosing a particular ship will assign you to a specific arena, following this structure:

• Entering as a javelin will spawn you, at default, to the jav free-for-all area (FFA)
• Entering as a warbird will spawn you, at default, to the warbird free-for-all area (FFA)
• Entering as a spider, terrier, or shark will spawn you, at default, to the general pub base
• Anyone who wishes to play a basing, javduel, elim, or wbduel match, can sign-up to play using the system mentioned previously

This way, pub players will begin to associate playing as a jav with jav dueling, they will begin to associate playing as a warbird with wb dueling, and they will begin to associate playing as terr/spid/shark with basing, AS IT SHOULD BE. Sure, some players will complain that they can't be a warbird or jav in the base anymore, but there are way more positives than negatives to this change:

• There will be no more TK'ing in base, except by sharks (which is common in a real basing game)
• If a player becomes increasingly skillful in spider, shark or terr, he will have already primed himself for being a good player in BD. These circumstances allow for beginners to develop into potential TWD players without even knowing it.
• Terriers will theoretically be able to to stay alive longer, as javs will no longer be TK'ing them, and warbirds/levs/cloaks/javs won't be killing them from the other team. Terrs staying alive longer will lead to longer flagroom fights, and pub matches will possess genuine characteristics of competitive basing matches. There are some elements of pub that are good for basing, but you will see much better flagroom battles and people developing their skills much faster (especially spiders/terrs) if they aren't facing warbirds/javs. It's hard enough for elite players to handle warbirds and javs in base when they themselves are in spider, which is why these ships are rarely used in TWBD's, and never at all in serious TWLB matches. So why should pubbers, the beginners, be overwhelmed by, and subject to this type of laming? Instead of spids or terrs getting easily beaten by javs/warbirds with one kill, this change will allow pubbers to see the true dynamics of basing (and jav/wb dueling) much more clearly. These ships have no real place in basing, and they should be utilized to introduce players to dueling, not a pharce version of basing.
• Since pub basing will be significantly more similar to real basing, the elites who would rather AFK than play a full game of ?go base or TWBD might find a few minutes to hop into the pub basing match.
• The spawn area for the pub base will be smaller, and players will spawn closer to the base so that they don't have to get "lost in space." Pubbers will have easier access to the action, and won't get confused because of how spread out pub currently is.
• Players typically choose to enter TW over the other zones because of our population size. Currently, we have ~200 players on per day, spread across 5-10 arenas. Instead of a player seeing 50-60 players pubbing, there will be 100-200 pubbing, on top of the added competitive matches. They will be able to play pub basing or FFA if they choose to, but now they won't have to type a bunch of confusing commands (ESC+A, or ?go, that they don't understand) to get to each event. It will all be laid out for them. Instead of one base full of 30 people and a spawn area with 10 people, new players will see numerous events taking place simultaneously. They won't get bored of pub basing and simply log off, they may decideto give jav/wb FFA a try, or they may even decide they are ready to play one of the competitive games.

That's all I'm going to type up for now, because I know it is a lot to take in. I've seen my posts on this topic get completely overlooked due to their density, but when I explain them one on one with veteran players they seem to think it's a good idea. This thread was made so that this innovative idea (something completely lacking in TW at the moment) gets some acknowledgement and discussion. Yes, this will take quite a while to code and implement (unless you take the smart route and just recode the current bots) but based on what progress I've seen in the zone (barely any) this is something worthwhile for staff to work on. Pub itself would now be seen as an entry level into the competitive leagues (FOR EVERY LEAGUE), instead of being completely separate, random, beginner arena that runs parallel to the leagues.

We've been looking for a way to bridge pub with TWD/TWL, THIS IS IT.

[Heisman]

Yo you just pm'd me to read this fucking book. Get a life. Any advice you giving to the game is bad advice. You are terrible at every ship. Stop pming me.

Faggot.

[Rab]

Drop the individual arenas of ?go base, ?go javduel, ?go wbduel, and ?go elim, and merge them with pub to form "TW-General."

no, because:
- I like them separate
- It's hard to do

not reading the rest because... cba

[Pressure]

Don't bother responding if you aren't going to take the time to read through the post.

[Rab]

don't bother writing a post that's both shit AND long

[Shaddowknight]

First section: putting everything into pub is a horrible idea. The spam is already bad enough at times, I don't want to be bombarded with people asking for 3 people to join the javduel or shit.

Second section: Removing ships is a horrible idea, and will drive more players away. Removing the free-play aspect is one of the worst things we can do. Another issue is bot depdancy for all of this. When bots are down, a staffer can still host those events, but having 6 staffers all in pub hosting them would be a nightmare.

[Pressure]

First section: putting everything into pub is a horrible idea. The spam is already bad enough at times, I don't want to be bombarded with people asking for 3 people to join the javduel or shit.

Code a command to !turnoffstats. Spam is bad in every arena at any given time. That is what ?ignore is for. Keep the zone the way it is, and new players will not stay, and the game will die and rot with the current layout.

Second section: Removing ships is a horrible idea, and will drive more players away. Removing the free-play aspect is one of the worst things we can do.

In my post, I touched upon every aspect of how this change will cater to the duelers, cater to the basers, AND cater to the pubbers. How many players are die-hard weasels? 2? Sometimes you have to sacrifice a few to acquire many. Beginners who don't know what X-Radar getting killed by invisible ships will consider it cheating and unfair. Levs completely ruin the progress made in flagroom matches. Have you ever seen a cram in pub? I haven't, but without the specials you will see a dramatic increase in strategy and real basing dynamics. There are already restrictions of free-play in the other arenas, what makes this so different? Those ships are completely pointless, aren't the recent pub changes (i.e. - weakening levs, making the base larger) meant to increase basing quality? From what I know, they were implemented to do just that, and my ideas will (theoretically) make the quality of pub matches even better.

Another issue is bot depdancy for all of this. When bots are down, a staffer can still host those events, but having 6 staffers all in pub hosting them would be a nightmare.

I'm really not sure you're understanding my layout. Every other "event" like bug, trivia, will all run in the arenas they are currently hosted in. The only change I am proposing would be to bring the automated pick-up games to pub. Out of wbduel, javduel, base, and elim, the only one that currently needs a staffer to start is ?go base. This can easily be changed without interfering with the way it is run. If I missed your point, please re-phrase it.

[Hulk]

This guy acts like staff will ever change any of this. Pub 0 is seriously terrible and unplayable. Any time you even feel like playing you get EMP'd or killed 24/7 by lev bombs. Cloakers need to be removed but it's honestly not that big of a deal. Moving ?go base to pub 0 would probably be the only realistic move imo.

[Heisman]

Still didn't read his book of garbage^^ but clearly he is stupid dumb as he is bad at the game. Not one person agreeing with you dude. Stop playing the game so much. And stop thinking before you hurt yourself. Some Real talk for you're bitch-ass. BOOOM #letthetearsflow

[Shaddowknight]

i would be fine with having pub and a second general arena, but i see the cons outweighing the pros on having them as one.

[Pressure]

i would be fine with having pub and a second general arena, but i see the cons outweighing the pros on having them as one.

Why is it that your cons remain to be seen? I would think that such an extensive post warrants extensive replies. This seems more political than it is rational. List what you think is wrong with my idea and I'd be happy to respond as best as I can.

[Crescent Seal]

skimmed through it and tried to read the bolded print but heres my opinion:

1) chat spam would be too annoying. pubbers are immature as hell and kids like tower c/p wikipedia 24/7. i personally like the division of arenas to filter out faggots. i only see this benefiting .?go base tbh because it might be more efficient to get it going.

2) its true that being aware of other arenas is troublesome for new players. it took me like 4-5 months to realize that there was something more to the game than just pub. this is what I believe we should focus on. we should somehow help newbs understand how to move around arena to arena and that the game has a lot to offer outside of pub. i used to ignore the green text as well.

3) is anyone even keeping track of when new players install the game? are there any legit "newbies" even playing? i see the same old players in every arena every time i log on. we should have a specific branch of staff dedicated to monitoring and guiding new players so the learning curve is lessened.

4) even though we are in a shithole, i don't think we are at that level yet to consider something like 1 condensed arena. thats like a last resort type of deal.

[schope]

just not reading it not because it's big, but because it's thix's idea. And we all know he will never be able to be good at this game. So his opinion just doesnt matter at all.

[Shaddowknight]

skimmed through it and tried to read the bolded print but heres my opinion:

1) chat spam would be too annoying. pubbers are immature as hell and kids like tower c/p wikipedia 24/7. i personally like the division of arenas to filter out faggots. i only see this benefiting .?go base tbh because it might be more efficient to get it going.

2) its true that being aware of other arenas is troublesome for new players. it took me like 4-5 months to realize that there was something more to the game than just pub. this is what I believe we should focus on. we should somehow help newbs understand how to move around arena to arena and that the game has a lot to offer outside of pub. i used to ignore the green text as well.

3) is anyone even keeping track of when new players install the game? are there any legit "newbies" even playing? i see the same old players in every arena every time i log on. we should have a specific branch of staff dedicated to monitoring and guiding new players so the learning curve is lessened.

4) even though we are in a shithole, i don't think we are at that level yet to consider something like 1 condensed arena. thats like a last resort type of deal.

To answer you on #3, yes, we are, and yes, we can tell if it's a real newbie a good percentage of the time. We also have a group consisting of players and staffers alike who assist newbies throughout their time in the zone.


As for Pressure, the a number of the cons are spelled out here. The chat spam is annoying, shoving everyone into the same room WILL cause issues. Players should know how to ?go <arenaname>, as hosted events and twd would still require such. Disabling chat on a person-to-person basis for each chat type would be a pain in the ass. I don't feel the time to make franken-pub is worth it. It would be a poor version of everything. Combining other subarenas (wbduel, javduel, elim, etc) is a much more plausible task, but even then that idea has been generally disliked by both the playerbase and staff.

I'm sure there's more, but it's late and I need to sleep.

[fiS]

I don't even know where to start my thoughts and opinion on this. It's overwhelming.

Even though you clearly put some thought into it, it's not thought through. In the first place: You do not play Pub. You don't know Pub other than "that's where our newbies go and stay and that's where we need to get the players away from". This is also your intention: dragging players away from pub and showing them the rest of TW. While this isn't a bad idea, putting all in one arena and enforcing heavy ship restrictions, forcing people into certain areas isn't how we play Pub and it's not how Pub will ever become.

Secondly, Pub has always been and will always be free to play for everyone, in any ship, on any freq, minus Pure Pub times and extreme laggots. People see all the ships there, their abilities, strengths, weaknesses and Pub is the only arena where they can learn them; the basics at the very minimum.

You are saying that everyone entering "Pub" must be Shark, Terrier or Spider and in the same sentence you are talking about adding ?go Base into Pub. Why would we do both? Are you serious? Then we would end up with a "Pub" (as YOU call it), and a Base, being exactly the same except for people get to chose between 3 ships instead of getting put into one. Putting every WB or Jav into a dueling rink isn't Pub either. I really don't know what to say to this idea other than that the "automatic area place" depending on your ship is by far one of the most terrible ideas that I've ever heard for our Public arena.

You are certainly right when you say that it's too much what we have right now. We have too much automated arenas for not enough people. Just to mention a few, Base, Elim, Hockey, Duel+Duel2, Javduel, Wbduel, Spidduel aside from the entire TWD matches and hosted events and I personally am not a fan of all the automated events either - I would rather see some of them dropped OR merged.

Merging them into Pub isn't an option, especially not with your "requirements" and ship-area-restrictions. As of now we already have way too much green spam, it'd get a thousand times worse if we'd merge all that into one.

What I still think is worth a mention about your ideas and points of view... Yes, Lev and Weasel are the two most problematic ships in Pub. But they belong there and have their reason, and I've been trying to get them balanced further which certainly isn't an easy task and it seems like any compromise is impossible and not accepted by our community. What I would like to say at this point is that Pure Pub (as in Levi and Wzl restrictions as well as private freqs) is something that will be "back" temporarily, for the weekends or so.

Also: You personally are a fan of TWDB, TWLB and ?go Base and you absolutely can't compare this to Pub. Stop doing that, please, for god's sake. Just because YOU are a fan of it (and so am I and many others), and YOU think that it's the only aspect of TW, it doesn't mean that this direction is the correct one for our one and only Public arena. Just as what you said about Teamkilling; yes, it's annoying. But it's a part of the game. People learn it and people who keep doing it get handled by staff, I love the game dynamic that teamkilling adds to it - it makes you carry and learn the responsibility, unless of course you're a troll.

I'm pretty sure I forgot to mention some stuff, but I hope I woke you up. TW has more aspects than just competition and Base.