Teamkilling penalties - bad public policy.

[Azov]

So today I encountered a little surprise: If I accidentally team-kill somebody, I lose $20 dollars. So I sent a ?help request and didn't get many clear answers. The leave a !comment feature was advertised by the TW-Pub bot about recent changes and I of course left a few comments about this change. But I'll go into some more detail here so everyone can read my view on it and judge the merits of the policy based on another way of looking at things.

As a matter of public policy, fining or implementing sanctions for what may otherwise be an accident is not smart. Staff has regularly stated as of late goals to confront teamkilling is mainly to dissuade intentional teamkills. Some others have opined that the new Levi settings are contributing to an increase in teamkills. So, okay, let's take both of these positions one by one and look at them.

If staff and development are implementing fines against players for teamkills because the new Levi settings have created a higher percentage of them, then why are we keeping these settings? If Dev is going to change the Levi settings then PUNISH players for using those settings, what sense is there in that? There isn't any, and in fact, it's terribly short sighted and very bureaucratic. But I am not ready to concede the new Levi settings are bad, I rather like them. So I propose keeping the new settings.

If the objective of staff is then to target players intentionally teamkilling, then that needs to be where fines are assessed. The staff member who answered my ?help call today acknowledged on this point that the bot can't determine who intentionally and accidentally teamkills. That is a shocking admission because it confirms that players who accidentally teamkill, with no basis in negligence, carelessness, or any wanton and willful conduct, are being penalized. And when you are LTing, teamkills WILL happen - that's part of the nature of LTing. So if we are punishing people for LTing with fines, then we have gone astray.

These fines need to be scrapped immediately. We can't punish rule-abiding players because a few intentionally teamkill. Punish those who deliberately offend, not those who innocently make a mistake.

Azov

[Shaddowknight]

I recall every time this idea being brought up that it was shot down, as penalising people for accidents was bad. Also being a shark or jav in a very busy base is going to have some teamkills.
I agree this is a bad idea and tk tax shouldnt be done. It's staff's job to handle intentional or excessive teamkillers.

This does hit a lot of problem areas, but the spash damage on others is not worth it. It's like nuking a whole country when only 10% of it is causing problems.

Repped bombs/mines will also trigger this, which is another huge flaw in it.

[Azov]

Yeah I was just talking about the repped mine situation. There is absolutely NO intent whatsoever on the part of the mine layer to TK. The intention is on the ENEMY SHIP to cause a teamkill, but that guy won't be hit with the fine, it will be the person who laid the mine.

So it punishes people for using Jav's, Lev's, and LTing.

[Shaddowknight]

aparently sharks are exempt from this tax.

[Steep]

Watching both public freqs having levi as most used ship, i think 20 bux is too little for a tk, give a 100 bux penalty so people will actually start caring how reclessly they bomb around and kill teammates. Its not so hard to figure out that bombing a shark with levi will end up on your own team, or to learn to bullet when lting in small spaces, but as normal player doesnt seem to care about such, this penalty might work well.
I dont follow your arguments about "not penalizing accidents". This isnt a ban, nor a warning, just a simple fine to make you think twice how to play a bomber ship.

[Bukkake Surprise]

Hmm, that does make some sense. You'll just have to suck up accidents.

Assuming people care about the money.

I still prefer the old way of people getting tired of your ineptitude/carelessness and TKing you back, though.

"Its not so hard to figure out that bombing a shark with levi will end up on your own team, or to learn to bullet when lting in small spaces, but as normal player doesnt seem to care about such"

Because, despite your moronic sarcasm, most people who play this game are morons.

[Wazzaaa.nl]

...
If staff and development are implementing fines against players for teamkills because the new Levi settings have created a higher percentage of them
...

...
i think 20 bux is too little for a tk, give a 100 bux penalty so people will actually start caring how reclessly they bomb around and kill teammates
...

if levi settings caused the increase of TK's then only give these fines to levi's..
i also agree with steep, 20 pubbux aint shit noone gives a damn about 20 pubbux.. make it higher
if i only get 20 pubbux fine instead of getting shiplockd i might considering teamkilling my new hobby

[bkgmjo]

Just a thought: Why would a notorious lev teamkiller who cannot buy anything in base care about a fine at all?

[Rab]

They wouldn't.
Fine is stupid.
Pubbux is stupid.

[Azov]

Just a thought: Why would a notorious lev teamkiller who cannot buy anything in base care about a fine at all?

We're not talking about the people who do it on purpose necessarily. Those people should be subject to sanction. It's the people who are being thrown under the bus for not doing anything other than using a Lev. Accidental TK's happen with Lev's - that's why they're accidents. They are not on purpose. So punishing Lev users this way is beyond retarded.

[kthx]

We're not talking about the people who do it on purpose necessarily. Those people should be subject to sanction. It's the people who are being thrown under the bus for not doing anything other than using a Lev. Accidental TK's happen with Lev's - that's why they're accidents. They are not on purpose. So punishing Lev users this way is beyond retarded.

This is what happens when faggot liberals get in charge of things. They think the best solution to every problem is creating a tax.

[bkgmjo]

They should get punished like all other abusers, cheaters and other garbage nobody needs, but tax is the wrong way and has been put in place without thought of consequences. It has a fun side tho, u can freak javs out by continuously running into their bombs.

[Fork]

I like this idea up until i think about playing in a shark... Sharks mine to prevent the opposition getting into the flagroom. Now his mines will get repped by another shark and if that mine tks- he loses money while he was playing pub the way it should be. An evil shark could even want the other shark to lose money and purposely rep for tks.

Another prob would be people riding from a distance away purposely into the exploded bomb for a tk so the other guy can lose money. I could even see myself doing this for a reaction to fis :P ...evil fork.

Another problem is people with 0 money can tk as much as they can (until staff catch them?)

Ooo im finding a few problems :O

For the ships like levs risking it and firing into flagroom... a jav thinking he can shoot a nice shot using holes for the bounce kill while next to his teammates and times it wrong resulting in a tk... meh let them know about it by taking off some money.

[Steep]

Sharks mine to prevent the opposition getting into the flagroom. Now his mines will get repped by another shark and if that mine tks- he loses money while he was playing pub the way it should be.

lol fork.. how, after all these years, you think sharks are supposed to mine entrance

[Azov]

UPDATE: It appears as of today (Saturday), at 3:30pm EST, the imperialistic tax on our ships for accidental teamkills has been quietly rescinded. We can avoid throwing the tea into the harbor now...