BanID #2819 - requesting answer from M_M God

[Exalt]

Here are the facts laid out as simple and concise as possible:

• You were originally banned in 2008 for speed hacking in Desert Storm.
• You were released in 2009 and for approximately 4 years, you weren't caught cheating (or didn't cheat) as far as we know.
• You cheated in SSCU Trench Wars and, as a result, were banned in August of 2013. This netban was originally for 90 days, however after L_E found out this was your second netban offence for cheating, it was increased appropriately.

So because in 2009, which by my rudimentary calculations was 5 years ago, he got banned in a zone that's been dead for at least 4 years now, that ban in that dead zone carries over to Trench Wars? Really? What a fucking joke. Whose to say that the staff in that dead, piece of trash zone were not lying, corrupt, or absolutely just fucking around and banning people due to them having zero population? Whose to say? When the staff of a zone fail so hard that that entire zone is completely dead, then obviously their opinions never should hold any weight whatsoever.

Also, since that 90 day ban was served, and then L_E found out only after the fact, this is a complete joke and is not justice. Does Left_Eye even play this fucking game anymore? I certainly haven't seen him. Should we ban Left_Eye for claiming he was a female for 10 years to get staff, and then came out as a man only after 10 years of lying? Should we not do that?

[Jones]

2pacz is upset he prolly never will be able to play twl :~(

[Zeebu]

this is what it sounds like :<

[Exalt]

I'd still like to know how speed hacking in a zone that's been completely dead/offline for 4 years now (and was practically dead when he apparently did the speedhack in 2009 anyways) should have any relevance to a ban in Trenchwars?

Let's not forget, we let Mythril, Delectable, Vys, and many other players off the hook in TW for using CE or other hacks. They did it in TRENCHWARS too, not in Desert Storm or some other crappy dead zone with horrible staff members that didn't know what the fuck they were doing (not that many staff members in TW know either). We let those players off the hook, and this game needs all the players it can get at this point.

EDIT:

By the way, 2pac might not speak right, act right in forums, or basically show much maturity whatsoever, but I'm not debating the person here more than I'm debating the actual system and how this system fails. Anything that happened outside of Trenchwars should not count inside of Trenchwars. If I was going to try out a cheat, I would do it in a shitty zone like Desert Storm too, rather than risk getting banned inside of Trenchwars. Who gives a fuck what Desert Storm thinks? Their zone was as dead in 2009 as it is now, and they should've been thankful for the ONE extra player inside their shitty zone, because testing cheats was probably the only way they were ever going to get new players to ever enter their zone, aside from someone accidentally clicking on the wrong zone while drunk.

Seriously though, if he served his 90 days or whatever (and it's been much longer than 90 days at this point) in 2013, than that should've been it. If TW STAFF fucked up the ban and gave him a shorter sentence than what he literally deserved (and that's debatable), than that is TW STAFF's fault. Double Jeopardy is illegal in the real world, and I don't see why it should be legal in 2d spaceship games either. Own up to your own mistakes and get over your power trip. 2pac should not have to show any remorse or anything else to kiss your asses just to get unbanned when you are in the wrong in the first place for banning him twice for one offense.

[Ephemeral]

2pac,
IMO you could write a book on how to NOT get a ban lifted. Was there anything that you didn't fuck with? How about showing some kind of remorse, respect (to the community), or something that can be read as you aren't simply going to repeat your previous behaviors? Its not hard, simply show that you aren't one neuron short of an synapse.
eph

[Crescent Seal]

y u using cheat programs 2pacz? wtf are speed hacks? i agree with eph...allow a proper apology that shows remorse for being a bitchnigga

[Exalt]

2pac,
IMO you could write a book on how to NOT get a ban lifted. Was there anything that you didn't fuck with? How about showing some kind of remorse, respect (to the community), or something that can be read as you aren't simply going to repeat your previous behaviors? Its not hard, simply show that you aren't one neuron short of an synapse.
eph

This doesn't matter whatsoever. Nobody in staff are mind readers. Nobody in staff can look into the future. I certainly don't kiss anyone on staff's asses when they are known to be bigger fuckups than we even give them credit for. I certainly wouldn't kiss some 14 year old's ass just to get unbanned, when most of the people on staff either got staff because of some skill in coding/designing even though they are 14 years old and have no maturity or knowledge outside of that small and specific skill, or they pretended they were female for 10 years and so got staff because someone on upper staff wanted to cybersex them. Knowing that is the qualifications to getting staff, would you kiss anyone's ass and show remorse to those staff members? I certainly would not. They can kiss my ass for being fucking useless and for having to pretend to be fucking females for 10 years just to get a shitty position on a dying 17 year old computer game.

By the way, the person who gave the 2nd ban after the first 90 days were served was a player who pretended to be female for 10 years to get staff on a dying 17 year old computer game. You trust a person that lied for 10 years about their gender just to get staff?

[2pac]

Let me join in for a second here.

Here are the facts laid out as simple and concise as possible:

• You were originally banned in 2008 for speed hacking in Desert Storm.
• You were released in 2009 and for approximately 4 years, you weren't caught cheating (or didn't cheat) as far as we know.
• You cheated in SSCU Trench Wars and, as a result, were banned in August of 2013. This netban was originally for 90 days, however after L_E found out this was your second netban offence for cheating, it was increased appropriately.

This is what happened. You blatantly admitted to using cheat programs. This is your second offence that has been recorded.

If you would like to discuss this matter further, you can feel free to talk to SSC Ops (for the netban) or myself for the local ban. I understand your frustration with the SSC Ops and your ban dispute - this isn't something I can control. Hopefully we can get better communication going as it's not been great (prime example being in Eph's thread).

Thanks

Here are my facts:

• You were originally banned in 2008 for speed hacking in Desert Storm. - True, I also staffed in that zone plus regarding on SSC rules this should be 90 day ban as it was my 1st ban ever for cheating. I over served this ban for 1 year excluding the 90 days. I didn't cheat after that for 5 years.
• You cheated in SSCU Trench Wars and, as a result, were banned in August of 2013. This netban was originally for 90 days, however after L_E found out this was your second netban offence for cheating, it was increased appropriately. - True on this as well - 90 day ban already served. L_E should have found out my *info on bans and then should have banned me for the right amount of time however she/he didn't and banned me on the day I was suppose to be released, imagine this happen to you, you would have evaded to find out why it was changed then they accuse me of evading when I can't even get ahold of SSC netops from the website.

Facts are clear that I OVER served all the bans and should be released now. Dezmond you should look at all my facts and confirm them or contact me for more information.

Thank you

[Ephemeral]

This doesn't matter whatsoever. Nobody in staff are mind readers. Nobody in staff can look into the future. I certainly don't kiss anyone on staff's asses when they are known to be bigger fuckups than we even give them credit for. I certainly wouldn't kiss some 14 year old's ass just to get unbanned, when most of the people on staff either got staff because of some skill in coding/designing even though they are 14 years old and have no maturity or knowledge outside of that small and specific skill, or they pretended they were female for 10 years and so got staff because someone on upper staff wanted to cybersex them. Knowing that is the qualifications to getting staff, would you kiss anyone's ass and show remorse to those staff members? I certainly would not. They can kiss my ass for being fucking useless and for having to pretend to be fucking females for 10 years just to get a shitty position on a dying 17 year old computer game.

By the way, the person who gave the 2nd ban after the first 90 days were served was a player who pretended to be female for 10 years to get staff on a dying 17 year old computer game. You trust a person that lied for 10 years about their gender just to get staff?

Respectfully disagree.

This is not about 2pcs vs. staff at all in my mind; I have no idea why people fall into this kind of thinking. This is about 2pac fucking the zone over, not staff. Staff simply enforces the rules, the rules are there to help the zone.

IMO we ALL have responsibilities to each other as community members. We are ALL swimming in this ‘pool’ together. If one us pisses or shits in the pool it why would anyone want to blame the life guards for keeping that person out; especially when that person tires to sneak back in and is constantly showing no remorse or wanting to follow the rules?

I don’t know about anyone else but I am glad that I am not swimming in piss and shit.
eph

[2pac]

If you think i'm a threat to the zone you must be mistaken. Eph lets be real here I over served my bans you can see my post above yours. I don't need to show remorse I've served my bans lengths x3 already why would I kiss staff for that? I don't even know why you disagree with me you haven't been around when I was here and came out of the blue. You were absent and in conclusion your response towards me, means nothing. How have I fucked the zone over? I trained noobies in tw got them on squads showed them how to team in twdd's, you haven't been around much to see anything I have done so please don't put your opinions in. Have I DDOS the server NO, have I hacked staff/player accounts NO. What else have I done to "fuck" the zone over.

I'm swimming in a pool of liquor dive in - Kendick Lamar , should listen to it Eph

[Ephemeral]

2pac,
I am not sure what you mean by ‘not being around’. I have played this zone, without interruption, since 1998. I would say that I am more active, in terms of playing, then the vast majority of players.

In my book ANY exploit is fucking the community over. It isn’t only the handful of player who might have been online in some arena or at the particular time. I’ve played this zone for 16 years and have never been banned, have many friends, and have had very few run in with any staffers.

Staff is simply a subset of the rest of the player community. Are there or have there been assholes on staff? Sure; same as there are plenty of assholes in the player population. I am trying to help you here, like I said IMO you have gone about getting the ban lifted, and generating public support, all wrong.

I don’t kiss anyone’s ass on staff, but I have some influence. So even though I have definitely pissed some of them off and even burned a few bridges, I still have a fair amount of support. You can reject my advice if you want, and blow me off as someone who doesn’t matter. Fuck, even if you don’t buy into anything I’ve said I would think that by this time you have seen that your approach has not worked for you and would be considering a radical different approach.
eph

[Shaddowknight]

As far as the netban from DS, being that it was a SSC NET BAN, and the SSC still exists, that ban is still valid. Consider the SSC as a country, and individual zones as states/provinces. Braking a state/provincial law will stick around while you're there, but won't carry over to others generally. Break a national law and it's with you no matter where in the nation you go. Just sucks for you that there's only one "country" to be in.

[Exalt]

2pac,
I am not sure what you mean by ‘not being around’. I have played this zone, without interruption, since 1998. I would say that I am more active, in terms of playing, then the vast majority of players.

In my book ANY exploit is fucking the community over. It isn’t only the handful of player who might have been online in some arena or at the particular time. I’ve played this zone for 16 years and have never been banned, have many friends, and have had very few run in with any staffers.

Staff is simply a subset of the rest of the player community. Are there or have there been assholes on staff? Sure; same as there are plenty of assholes in the player population. I am trying to help you here, like I said IMO you have gone about getting the ban lifted, and generating public support, all wrong.

I don’t kiss anyone’s ass on staff, but I have some influence. So even though I have definitely pissed some of them off and even burned a few bridges, I still have a fair amount of support. You can reject my advice if you want, and blow me off as someone who doesn’t matter. Fuck, even if you don’t buy into anything I’ve said I would think that by this time you have seen that your approach has not worked for you and would be considering a radical different approach.
eph

Explain to me why we let Mythril, Delectable, Vys, etc (I honestly forgot half the players at this point) off the hook from their LIFEBANS (due to cheating inside TW multiple times) and only served a few months to a year at most? Explain to me why we can let one group of players off the hook (they had a large community support group, me included) but cannot let 2pac off, when he clearly states he won't cheat anymore? Is it because we don't like the player, or because we are following some unwritten rule? Pick one or the other, but not both.

If it's due to the player, i disagree on principle.

If it's due to the rules, i disagree based on cruel/unusual punishment, double jeopardy, and Left_Eye's fuck up to begin with by not checking 2pac's previous bans during the first 3 months. This was Left_Eye's mistake, not 2pacs. You cannot, or at least SHOULD NOT punish any player twice for the same offense. Left_Eye fucked up here. Punish him for that. Reprimand Left_Eye from doing his job wrong the first time, and thus creating this controversy far after the fact. Therefore, if you use this excuse based on rules, I disagree on principle as well.

Either way you look at it, I disagree due to staff taking the wrong approach, not punishing their own or admitting their own fuck ups, and for taking it out on the player instead. Admit when you make a mistake, own up to that mistake, and do not try to force bigger punishments on players simply because you made a mistake. How in the world can you hold a player accountable when you cannot hold yourselves accountable?

I disagree on these principles.


Btw, Eph you know I agree with you in principle about almost everything else that you have to say in this game, so I will say I respectfully disagree with you as well. I'm not sticking up for 2pac in defense of what 2pac did or didn't do. I'm sticking up for a player that I view as being wronged by staff, due to staff making a mistake.

btw: I happen to like Left_Eye as a player, always have. That doesn't give an excuse for what happened though. If I was banG op and I screwed up a ban on a player due to not checking previous bans, and that player served out the length of the ban I gave him, I would not find it right or just to ban that player again after the fact.

[2pac]

As far as the netban from DS, being that it was a SSC NET BAN, and the SSC still exists, that ban is still valid. Consider the SSC as a country, and individual zones as states/provinces. Braking a state/provincial law will stick around while you're there, but won't carry over to others generally. Break a national law and it's with you no matter where in the nation you go. Just sucks for you that there's only one "country" to be in.

Shaddowknight you don't seem to understand my 1st ban was for 1 year, my ban should have been originally be 3 months since it was my 1st offence I served 9 months extra. I'm getting fucked over here bro.

Then left_eye finds this out which she failed at her job to find it out its her job to know these things, then bans me again on the date 3 months after aug 17th which would be November 17th - On that date left_eye modifies the netban till aug 17th of 2014. It's her fault for not finding out the *info on my ban previously, that is her job and should have found that out. You can just change a ban when its about to be over. Finding more out my past troubles should have been done when I had cheated on the day the netban was set. She obviously failed at that.

I'm not trying to VS staff but I'm outlining that I have been over-banned by many months.

Also if your figuring out why I'm making this topic now its been 9 MONTHS of ban I have served already and should be unbanned already. Feb 17th today.

[Star Fox]

Hiya,

I was hosting gatez2 at the time this happened, and was the one who reported it to LE. I'd like to just put in my 2 cents.

Let's look at some facts the way I understand them, and feel free to correct me if and where I'm wrong:

-2pacZ was a staffer in Desert Storm and was banned in 2008 for cheating. This ban seems to have been for a year, not 90 days, which was served fully, and then there were no offense for 4-5 years. I don't know the details of this offense (how disruptive was it, etc).
-On Aug. 17, 2013, 2pacZ was playing ?go gatez2 with less than 10 people in the arena, and only 5-6 of those playing. The event was over (however he may have been cheating during the event as well). Some may say the circumstances may not be important, but I do not agree with this. Context is always important. That's why there are different degrees of murder in criminal law. In this circumstance, I found his actions pretty harmless. He wasn't bothering anyone. IIRC, he blatantly let himself get shot over and over while sitting completely still, so I informed L_E, and we verified it. 5 minutes later, he was banned, and I went back to business.
-Apparently, the initial ban was a 90 day netban, and a 1 year local ban. This sentence was served, and then it was extended after evidence was reviewed after the ban had already been served. I know this isn't the United States' justice system, but you'll just have to deal with my analogies anyway. In criminal law I'm pretty sure that after a sentence is handed down, you don't get to extend it later when more evidence comes to light. If post-verdict changes are how bans function, then the current ban should also be reviewed on the grounds that 2pacZ over-served on his original ban for cheating in Desert Storm, but it seems like everyone on staff (other than possibly Dezmond) is fairly closed to review.

From Dezmond's post, it sounds like the netban can't be lifted regardless unless someone can get in touch with SSC ops, so 2pacz might be screwed regardless, but my opinion in this scenario would be to let the guy play. Some people have made a good point that the game is dying, and 2pacz is a pretty active player and we need all we can get.

It's been 6 months, and his attitude is obviously a little different now. He certainly doesn't always have nice things to say about staff, or even other players...but I don't think that should be a factor in this decision. Let's take this chance to show him that staff aren't a bunch of spiteful jerks itching to drop the ban hammer on people they don't like while issuing pardons to those they favor.