BanID #2819 - requesting answer from M_M God

[BooBiesYaY]

Who banned me when I was going to be released a netop or left_eye? Cause it seems you guys are working with them together to get me banned. Those with the real power can't even close out tickets how am I gonna reach them?

Im kind of confused about this also. From my impression, your ban was going to expire and they added on another insane amount at or near expiration, which should NEVER be done if your a professional. Thats like saying "hey wait 6 months and you can come back".. then on the 6th month say "just kidding heres another 1 year we found something a year ago" lol.

My impression from reading posts is that mods on Trench Wars end either collaborated or initated the extension simply because mods in other posts seemed to phrase it that they discovered other stuff or considered your "evading" which should carry no more than 5 days extension onto the ban per every day evaded, anthing more than that defies any common sense and reeks of king-like North Korea type rules (ie what i say goes im the king of TW or SSC, 1 year penalty for evading ban for 2 days).

Another thing is that if SSC ops legitimately didn't answer or take into consideration his appeals in a timely fashion, NO BAN should stick, whatsoever, unless you want to run SS and TW like North Korea. His appeals shouldve been heard months ago, and if they werent responded to in any timely fashion, or tickets closed, under the procedures in place, it is irresponsible and wrong to let any ban stick.

What if an innocent person was banned via SSC op abuse or a genuine mistake? If an appeal isnt answered in an unbiased way, in a timely fashion, the ban should expire, period. And people looking at the appeal should not be the same mods or friends of those mods who banned them.

Either way, at this point, TW is the only zone with any population left. I find it very hard to believe mods of this zone don't know, cant refer 2pac to the SSC ops, or didn't have any discussion with them whastoever.

And if any TW mods like demonic have the ability to remove an SSC ban he should do so under the reasoning stated above. That the appeal wasnt handled timely or at all, the extension happened in a ridiculous tease-like last minute extension, and the duration is absurd.

Would love some clarity on that. Who extended his ban? What is this mods name. Why arent his tickets answered within the last 6 months. What EXACTLY was the stated reason for the extention, and what was the exact extention duration from what to what.

[BooBiesYaY]

Im probably giving this thing way too much thought. Im suggesting this game is run like a well oiled machine and its probably just 5 guys sitting around their moms dinner table discussing things over spagettio's and uncle bens rice. Im thinking these 5 guys or SSC ops would have legit appeals in place, unbiased review and so forth, but this is abandonware lol. Im completely losing my mind, im actually treating TW like its Electronic Arts or Starbucks with departments, procedures, common sense, customer courtesy/appreciation and so forth.

Let me just stop, but i'd love to know some answers in prior post.

[2pac]

M_M God> i surely believe we need to get our heads out of our asses and all work towards ONE common goal; saving the zone/game.

Thank you for making an effort this means alot to this game, wish demonic shared your views. Demonic needs to step down, here is my reasons: Usage: 5711h 22m, priitk has been inactive since 2011 and STILL has more usage than this sysop who is currently the "owner" of the zone at the moment. Should give your position up to M_M God guy actually had 14k usage and had 2 years more experience than demonic. I'm not trying to troll you but I just laid out the facts and you are not fit for this job anymore Demonic.

Thank you

[BooBiesYaY]

thanks for supporting me guys means alot to me that some players care. I apologize to any other staff/player that I harassed. My personality is fucked but i try to be better.

I don't share your views on some/most staff. I know most care about the zone, try their best. Some have lacked morality in a big way in the past with regard to cheating, and mingling with friends (ie nepotism/abuse), occasionally abusing powers.

I've reviewed this thread extensively and im convinced that your ban should end immediately. Current mods have absolutely no right to set forth and allow procedures to appeal (or argue for leniency and mitigating factors), ignore those venues, and then ban or extend you for evasion for 2 days logging into look for SSC ops who ignored all procedures to being with.

The ban in this case (and possibly others) are absurd and far too lengthy. Penalty and degree of violation must be measured and appropriately sentenced, otherwise lock people up for 50 years for jaywalking if you have no common sense. You shouldve been banned 90 days, maybe 5 months max due to the other zone thing but beyond 6 months I simply don't support whatsoever. If you cheated in the leagues, it may be more serious but I don't think even that could reach 1 year in my opinion, maybe 9-10 months.

The ultimate issue that got me pissed was how they extended your ban. It would have infuriated me if they told me to wait 6 months, I waited, and then extended my ban another year on the very last month or week of the 6 month ban, especially under such dubious claims of evasion or prior violations (which entail one violation based on "memory" after discussing with other SSC ops), envoking bans based on memory violations lol. This move lacked all profesionallism and literally made mods look like absolute amateur jackasses in this case.

The response by mods has been weak. Their argument for evasion does not hold merit as described above. Arguing to follow the "proper channels" is moot, since those channels have been documented on this and other threads to be invalid by both 2pac and by left eye and countless others. We must assume that he logged on for 2 days to attempt to look for SSC ops.

Length is also egrigious as indicated. As most players have stated on this thread, the game could be gone in a year (dramatized). 1 year represents 8% of TW's entire lifespan. All bans over 6 months should be re-examined pronto, not just 2pacs.

2pacs attitude. I don't share his attitude over staff or mods, as the intro has suggested. However, I would also advise mods/staff to peruse his first few posts in this thread. He both said "his personality sucks" and hes working on it, and he even "apologized" to staff at least once in a post for going off on them. Regardless of whether it was sincere or not, he has not been solely, 100%, crude or insulting.

Again, if he cheats agian it would mean hes an idiot and should be banned another 6 months immediately. You lose nothing anyway by unbanning him.

Its clear he should be unbanned, its way past due according to these facts. I am simply an observer of this situation. I have no bias towards either side. My main involvement in this thread stems from 2pacs comment in December to me that he'll be back in February and hes looking forward to it, and i told him sure thing see you in the game. Now im involved and following this case. Normally I dont give a shit unless something irks me.

Its bad decisions like this that harm the fundamentals of this game. You should really wake up and smell the coffee. How would you feel if you waited 6 damn months to come back after some lame ass cheating in an event, and some mod extended your ban a year on the very last week without warning, because you logged into contact SSC ops for 2 days only because their own procedures were broken... you couldn't make this shit up seriously..

[BooBiesYaY]

Even if you ignore every single thing. Evasion of a ban itself, should not carry a penalty over 5 days per every day of evasion. I really don't know which one of you geniuses thought up 6 months or more for 2 days of evasion, but you should re-learn math in my opinion. Thats not just absurd, its insanity.

Even assuming this guy evaded his ban to sneak in and play, you'd think common sense would give him another 2-3 weeks at most extension, not 6-12 months for fucks sakes. Use your brains. Where do you come up with these penalties, you just throw darts on a board? rofl

[Bukkake Surprise]

"Like running a red light, but saying you're only doing it when there's nobody else on the road, so it's 'not a big deal'."

That's not actually a big deal then.

I doubt anyone who claims North Korea is horrible has actually been to North Korea. Let's use the US as an example of totalitarianism. At least we know how the US functions.

[LF]

I got sick of sitting in the shadows on this thread and decided to toss in my meaningless opinion. So here's my thoughts....

• The amount of time you served on your first netban is irrelevant. The rules state a MINIMUM of 90 days for the 1st offense, not EXACTLY 90 days for first offense. Whoever judged that ban in 2008 did so however he/she felt was appropriate and has 0 relevancy to your current ban (aside from the simple fact that a netban was placed)
• Whoever placed your current ban should have done so with the almost immediate knowledge of your previous ban. However, though it's not meant as an excuse, senior staff in our zone is in such utter disarray and clueless with people coming and going and switching around at an alarming rate it's really no surprise that it went unnoticed for so long. I'd bet that the person who placed the original ban, then placed the netban, then increased the netban are 3 totally different people, but I'm just speculating there. If anything our screw up *could* work in your favor
• I'm a firm believer in the 3 strike rule. I don't care how many people played in the zone/event each time you used whatever cheat program you used. It's not a secret how seriously our zone and the rest of SSC takes cheating, and widely documented that it could very well be your train ticket to a perma-ban. I think 12 months is a 'fair' length for a repeat offender such as you, and I believe that is the EXACT time frame that our zone's previously notorious "cheaters" have served for ONE offense, much less two. Though its not my decision to make, if it were I would let you back after 12 months from the date of the original ban with your next offense being a full fledged, permanent ban from Subspace and anything related to it (forums included).
• While I understand the reasoning for your evasions, I still don't agree with it. You've had no issues voicing your opinions via these forums. If you had expressed yourself using common sense and reached out to M_M God via private message, my money is on the likely outcome that he would have bent over backwards for you to at least get you answers about your situation. With that said, its no secret that the system is broken. SSC might as well not even exist as more often then not they are the cause of more headaches than relief, and for that I am sorry. I could potentially offer a solution to that problem and get us onto our own biller but that's a topic for another discussion. The fact that SSC is useless/non-existent should only mean that you have to improvise in NON-ILLEGAL WAYS to plead your case
• Last but not least, stop being a thundercunt. You are not making any friends by telling everyone else how bad they are at playing spaceships. Nobody buys your story about how much you've contributed (Helping newbs, training them in twdd, staff in another zone, etc). Fact is you are a run of the mill average wb that plays/trolls in pub 95% of the time, and as a filler wb to lower tier squads who needed a 4th to play. None of this makes you any less important than any other player, but this false sense of entitlement you have based on how much you've done for us act really needs to go, because rallying the support of vys and boobiesyay isn't really going to make a difference.

In the end, you fucked up.... Twice. I do think August 2015 is too much and that August 2014 is more realistic. At least that way you can see some light at the end of the tunnel. My opinions mean literally nothing so take what I say with a grain of salt, but somebody (ANYBODY) should step up and finalize this whole ordeal. Give the guy his answer on what his immediate future holds regardless of whether or not he's going to like it

[2pac]

Reply to LF.

1. I never asked for support or gather people to come and reply they came on themselves and posted common sense.

2. Game population is in decline, if you think 12 month bans are worth it you are no different from staff and their idea's. Game needs population. I'm not here to maliciously wound the zone in anyway, nor have I hurt staff or players mentally or physically.

3. Yes I troll players and vet just like how they would if they say beat my team they would trash talk at the end of the game or after end of a duel.

4. LF tell me, if you were netbanned how would you get your ticket(s) answered for an explanation on a ban change. Say you fill out your ticket on SSC Netop site, you get no answer. You in return come on the forums and PM staff, just like how I did but I however got NO RESPONSES. I could only open a thread then LE would close the thread without cause and be done with it. Last soluation was to logon and talk to TW staff and then find out who the netops were because I don't know who the fuck these people are and they would give no fucks about my ban unless they were bugged about it.

5. Seriously you think I"m a sub? I play majority of every rounds on my twdd games with top warbirds so you must be mistaken. Yes I play pub for pub bux and I do see you in there sharking as usual, you know I'm a good player. I don't need to explain this as every time someone asks me to join their squad. I'm good I teach people I troll people I make fun of people you won't understand this but people do like me some do some don't. I also play other leagues as well like jav and base as well.

6. I am a dick staff know this I troll everyone for fun this is me I can't change my behavior for the community I am who I am and none of these oldschool vets or noobs can do shit about what comes out my mouth or who I offend its just an ONLINE game like any other and I don't take it serious as some of these other players do.



3 months ban I served, changed without notice after the 3rd month to extend another 9 months. I'm fucking mad that these idiots can seem to ban someone for the right amount of time and keep fucking with the ban so many times its unheard of. I'm just saying unban me and get this shit over with so staff can focus on the BIGGER PICTURE.

[LF]

I don't personally have an issue with you. There's maybe 5 people in this zone that I genuinely dislike for whatever reason (poid, zidane, renzi, wiibimbo, hurricane). Yes I understand your situation is fucked up as a result of an old broken ass system that we have no choice but to follow. I intend to offer a solution to that problem personally pending the results of this TW Council thing and whether or not some changes may or may not be happening in upperstaff. We can point fingers and assign blame all we want, there's a TON of things we as staff and that SS council could do better to serve the public, but in the end the ONLY person that put you in this situation is you. So at the end of the day our entire process might be broken as shit, but none of that would matter to you personally if you didn't openly and very blatantly use that program in gatez2 in the first place. A lot of staff are dumb as shit, but for the most part we know what needs to be done, its just a matter or getting people that don't even play the game anymore to approve it. My advice to you is change your approach to this situation of yours and take your medicine like a man. We do need players, but its extremely hard to work FOR you if you are always on here ripping people a new asshole. Staff has enough assholes already, don't need your help with it I assure you.

Also, ship skill really doesn't matter. I was trying to emphasize that in my last post, so lets just leave that part out of this discussion.

[Left_Eye]

Alright. It's time I spoke about this issue. Here is the real story on what happened (with a timeline so people can follow easier).

On August 18th, 2013, 2pacZ was caught using a cheat program during a gatez3 game (which was being hosted). When I confronted him about it, he flat out denied it saying it was "lag." I presented the proof I had, and at that point, he admitted to using a cheat. From this point forward (until I found out afterwards), I 100% believed he was being honest with me about everything regarding this situation. I mean.. why would someone lie after being caught and felt sorry? I asked him if this was his first offense ever cheating. He said it was, that he had never cheated before.

During this in between time, he evaded twice, each time telling staff that we had "no idea" who we were dealing with, and that we would be sorry. He never once tried to contact M_M God or Demonic, but had time to tell us we would be sorry for banning him.

November 11th, 2013 - Past SysOp from Desert Storm came forth on his own and told me 2pacZ had previously been netbanned for cheating in DS. I didn't bother to look into it previously because I had taken 2pacZ's word as the truth. If he had admitted to everything and possibly shown some sort of remorse, things might have turned out a lot differently.

November 14th, 2013 - With SSC approval, the netban was raised to a year because this was 2pacZ's 2nd offense.

During this in between time, he evaded twice more.

November 20th, 2013 - While I was Head BanG Op, I made the decision to allow him to play other zones (not raising his bans to netbans anymore) just as long as he stayed out of TW. I thought it was a fair decision because it allowed him to play and leave TW alone. He was informed of this at the time of his ban. Despite his previous actions and threats, I still felt sorry for him being locked out of SS since he obviously wanted to play. I thought this was a happy medium for that time.

December 21st, 2013 - Evasion. However, this one is specifically worth noting because threats were made where he claimed to have the ability to take down our server and would use it if we didn't unban him.

During this in between time, he evaded twice more.

March 10th, 2014 - While this discussion went on between Demonic, M_M God, and Dezmond on whether to unban 2pacZ, 2pacZ went to SSC Ops and told SSC Ops that Demonic, M_M God, and Dezmond had come to the decision to unban him. The SSC Ops almost unbanned him, but they decided to check with TW Staff to be sure this is what was said. When informed that 2pacZ had lied to get his ban removed, he was netbanned again. By this time, I was out of the picture.

Now, I also think I am very fair in my judgments. If he had shown any remorse or even a remote hint of a meaningful apology (along with actions that showed his change of a new leaf), then things might have turned out (and could turn out) a lot differently. The only thing that I am concerned about is the fact that he has not shown the least bit of sorrow for his actions, but instead has said whatever he needs to because he feels that, in his mind, he has the right to play this game despite his situation. This was his 2nd ban for cheating, and each time he has lied to me, staffers, public, and SSC Ops. The fact that he has lied to get unbanned shows me that he is not sorry, but instead feels like he has the privilege to play this game and do whatever he wants. What I picture in my head is a little kid stamping his foot with an angry face saying, "I'M SORRY," when asked by a parent to apologize. We all know we are not kids anymore, but even if so, you know a little kid isn't really sorry at the time of the apology. 2pacZ does have the chance to flip over a new leaf and become actually productive, but up until now, he has only lied to people and blasted staff. Knowing what you know now, do you think he is really sorry for cheating or more sorry that he can't play this game because he was caught cheating? To be quite honest, I think it is more of the latter than former. If he could really convince staff that he was sorry for cheating rather than being sorry for getting caught, things still have an opportunity to change. His attitude up until now has only shown to me that he was sorry for getting caught, not sorry for the actual events that led up to his ban. Once he can convince staff that he was actually sorry for using the cheat, then his ban might be lifted.

I have, myself, put tons of faith into 2pacZ previously, but have been lied to flat out. In fact, I think a BanG Op should trust a player's words over staffer's words when it comes to bans. But, actions also speak louder than words. Around the same time, someone else had been netbanned for using a cheat program, but has not evaded a single time, and has recently asked to be unbanned. Why couldn't 2pacZ follow this route instead of the route he chose? I've been asking myself that constantly.

When all is said and done, 2pacZ has the power to change the situation around, but has refused to at every turn.

Anyway, that is the shortest synopsis I could give regarding this situation...

Have fun in SSCU Trench Wars!
Lefty

[Ephemeral]

WTF good is it if we have a zone full of liars, cheaters, trolls like this?

That said, and in the interest of fairness allow me to offer one possible solution. If 2Pac is really willing to not fuck up again, then give him one more chance with this stipulation - he has to find 5 other active players who will 'sponsor' him. If players like boobies are willing to buy into his reform/situation then lets see how deep their trust goes. If 2Pac fucks up again then he, and all five of his sponsors, get permanently banned.

If 2Pac is truly going to play the zone within the rules from this point forward then there is no risk of any of them being banned. He keeps talking about all the player support he has, let him prove it and let those who keep advocating his unbanning step forward in a meaningful way. He keeps saying he won't fuck up again, then let him prove it by finding sponsors. Who knows? Maybe since he would have 5 other players future hanging in the balance he would have additional incentive to not break the rules.
eph

[BooBiesYaY]

WTF good is it if we have a zone full of liars, cheaters, trolls like this?

That said, and in the interest of fairness allow me to offer one possible solution. If 2Pac is really willing to not fuck up again, then give him one more chance with this stipulation - he has to find 5 other active players who will 'sponsor' him. If players like boobies are willing to buy into his reform/situation then lets see how deep their trust goes. If 2Pac fucks up again then he, and all five of his sponsors, get permanently banned.

If 2Pac is truly going to play the zone within the rules from this point forward then there is no risk of any of them being banned. He keeps talking about all the player support he has, let him prove it and let those who keep advocating his unbanning step forward in a meaningful way. He keeps saying he won't fuck up again, then let him prove it by finding sponsors. Who knows? Maybe since he would have 5 other players future hanging in the balance he would have additional incentive to not break the rules.
eph

Are you kidding? Is this the level of intelligence in current staff, seriously? To attach 5 players to be "permabanned" if 2pac cheats. Im shocked by such stupidity, truly.

I have said every single time asked that I have no idea if 2pac will cheat again. I said he might. I said if he does hes an idiot and should be banned for another 6 months. I'm not advocating on behalf of 2pac because I trust or believe what he says or said. I'm also not in the business of playing parent where I must see sincerity or someone who is sorry for their action instead of that they got caught. Of course that would be helpful to show remorse, but i'm simply dissecting the entire situation here and how it was handled by mods.

Left_Eye made the judgement call to "believe 2pac" and ban him for around 6 months considering the entire incident. She had every right to peruse netban records, ban records, get eyewitness testimoney accounts from other zone owners (now defunct), but instead trusted him and waited until the very last month to investigate and extend the ban. Furthermore, the other cheating offense is in a now defunct zone, and was FOUR YEARS AGO, yes in 2009, as I read it. Thats an awfully long time of not cheating up until now.

Furthermore, the evasion penalties are ridiculous. If he evaded 4 whole days, you should extend his ban a month more then at most, thats like 750% increase 4 days ---> a month, not 12 more months. I personally would have to assume some of those days were to find SSC net ops because that has been documented on these forums, so I wouldnt extend it at all given their non-responsiveness via tickets or contact.

Eph, in my opinion you should ban yourself for uttering such stupid nonsense. Attaching 5 "sponsors" to be permabanned. What in the hell are you even talking about? If your an example of TW mod/staff intelligence at the current moment, then this zone is in deep deep shit. I welcome you to "permaban me" anytime you wish. All my friends on here have my cell phone number, I can go to 10 other games if I want to, the most notable would be World of Warcraft, and i can focus more on work and other things. TW needs me far more than I need TW, keep that in mind. Half the time I just play to pad the population in pub.

This case isnt about trusting 2pac or caring if hes remorseful. It would help, but the errors and flaws are in the lack of SSC op appeals/response, the duration, the reasoning for extension which is clouded between a 4 year old cheat on a defunct zone, brought up on the last month of his ban expiring, and between an evasion which might be an attempt to contact SSC ops.

The ban should be removed. If he cheats again, it should be reinstated. The ban should be removed based on the facts and errors involved in this case.

Is 2pac a liar and dishonest? Probably. But I don't give a shit. I'm looking at the system and the case facts, not 2pac. If you handled the case right from the start, had fair penalties, he would already be unbanned, and this entire discussion should never have existed.

And we've cleared one thing up, it would seem the ban (netban or local ban) is not simply SSC ops as originally stated but a collaboration in between. Since decisions were made with insights and discussions and actions on both sides.

[Ephemeral]

Boobies
Why? Because it is easy to come in here and write a bunch of shit; people have nothing to lose. It is a lot harder when people actually have an investment in something.

So ok, let’s just do one sponsor. You obviously feel so strongly about this that you have written a very large number of posts about it. But if you don’t trust him enough to put you own ass on the line why argue that the zone should trust him? Either the guy is or isn’t going to fuck the zone again. How can you argue so strongly, and put so much time into defending him yet not believe he will fuck up again? I don’t get it. How can you say you don’t know if he will or won’t? Obviously his history is that he has done several things, over time, in multiple zones that were against the rules. He has clearly admitted fault. He has fluctuated about remorse. These things matter when trying to understanding if he will or won’t break the rules again. You appear to now be arguing that yes, he will probably break the rules again but that is ok. You seem to not understand that playing is a privilege, not some fucking right.

Additionally migrating the risk by having a sponsor, having the added responsibility of other people’s possible banning over his head, is a possible solution for both him and the zone.

And lastly he is the one running his mouth about all the player support he has, let’s see if it is real or more just bullshit.

I don’t blame you for backing down in defending him and changing your position to one where 'the staff is wrong'. About the only place you can go now.
eph

[BooBiesYaY]

Boobies
You seem to not understand that playing is a privilege, not some fucking right.

eph

Excellent, i'll save you the time then. I'll move on to other things.

[BooBiesYaY]

Excellent, i'll save you the time then. I'll move on to other things.

There, uninstalled. I moved on. That was easy. Thank you Eph. Best of luck with the zone and best of luck with your case 2pac.