Anti-Warp Rule

[bkgmjo]

I know pub is about freedom of playing basing\ messing around but I see 0 competition in pub. Some people don't like competition but I can assure you a majority do.

This is what kept raining down on pub from twd players for years. You should consider that not everyone has to compare d***s all day long and brag about their wins. Lots of people hang around in pub, chat, play half distracted and have a mild version of a goal, which is not dictated as in twd. And in the end this has always been and will be the place where most players are. If you start pushing a move closer to twd or ?go base style basing I predict this group of players will soon be gone, along with most newbies who would just be ran over. Not to talk about a heavy increase in cheating to gain advantages, as it is common sight in leagues where people would sell their grandmas for a few pixels on their profile.

Just let people have their freedom and variety in pub and don't force a way of playing on them. We have enough subarenas for that and if there really are enough ppl interested, they can always have a twd match or start ?go base. But pushing away the many for the very few from leagues who would go to pub is nonsense.

[Fork]

This is what kept raining down on pub from twd players for years. You should consider that not everyone has to compare d***s all day long and brag about their wins. Lots of people hang around in pub, chat, play half distracted and have a mild version of a goal, which is not dictated as in twd. And in the end this has always been and will be the place where most players are. If you start pushing a move closer to twd or ?go base style basing I predict this group of players will soon be gone, along with most newbies who would just be ran over. Not to talk about a heavy increase in cheating to gain advantages, as it is common sight in leagues where people would sell their grandmas for a few pixels on their profile.

Just let people have their freedom and variety in pub and don't force a way of playing on them. We have enough subarenas for that and if there really are enough ppl interested, they can always have a twd match or start ?go base. But pushing away the many for the very few from leagues who would go to pub is nonsense.

Its fine saying this but even if we added alot more competition to pub somehow... players can still play freely to avoid competition if they wanted. For instance, lets say we gave incentive for people to really try hard to win games/ twd squads are now competing (in their own freqs) to win points for their squad to be ultimate squad (or w/e), how would this stop fork from entering and just random flying outside base/ chilling out near spawn/ relaxing in my ship near flagroom.... it doesn't really- i can still do what i want.

Pub should be made so there's more incentive to fight to win the round (if everyone's desperate to win the round- my god what a battle/ epic fun that will be for everyone) but also if people don't want to be involved- that's completely fine. On the other hand- a few people loved lev/ terring with the old style bombs so it would be cool to modify the map to get an equilibrium for everyone. People in flagroom hate levs disrupting their game so make it so its extremely hard for a bomb to affect the flagroom... there could be a couple of opportunity gaps for a lev to shoot though a tunnel near a flagroom- but a couple of doors that open and close could block the shot (making it rare that a bomb could successfully pass thro the open doors and into the flagroom wall). Idk if that's possible but hey just thinking outside the box.

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[Jerome Scuggs]

would be interesting to see roof closed off for LT's, but then fiddle with the holes in the base so where a very talented LT could angle a bomb into the FR.

it would make killing FR players a game of skill and not "aim down and press tab"

[fiS]

Pressure, Eph, I understand your concerns but AW has (almost?) always been availiable in pub. And once spiders can't just re-buy it quickly every death, it won't be a big problem. Dealing with AW spiders is a part of pubbing, at least I accept it as one...

On the roof idea: Fork, can you present an actual idea or map that you think would work? Because knowing exactly what you're talking about, it's harder than you think. And how would you involve TWD players or squads into pub? Honestly though I don't see it happening. Or maybe a really subtle feature if any. Why? Because I think it's better to turn into the "back to the roots" direction what is being tried, rather than adding more and more features that we barely have dev power for anyway.

Have you ever been part of a "competitive" pub game, where there are 2 (or sometimes even 3) teams trying hard for half an hour or even longer to get and hold that flag? These kind of games are really exciting and intense, but rare too. This tension lasts for a couple hours once established. Just because you don't get a pixel medal for these kind of base fights - does that make them less interesting?
An even harder impact to these games than the occasional L2 lev bomb are the stupid !buys. Instant fun killers. Really happy though that soon there will be an end to this.

[Turban]

we could just remove roof side of the map, now there's a solution albeit an ugly one.

[roxxkatt]

we could just remove roof side of the map, now there's a solution albeit an ugly one.

it is an interesting idea though

and easily done with a simple scattering of rocks that only wzl can get through

[Turban]

the first step that is necessary in order to achieve a fair public for both the new and old players is to remove the ability to purchase items with public cash, or at the very least limit the item options to the ones that do not give an advantage to anyone while disabling item purchasing out of safe.

this change would without a doubt make some players upset, but they will have to accept the fact that several of these current items in the wrong hands will ruin the fun of others with relative ease. these toxic items include classics such as super and shield, epidemic, maximum shrapnel on a javelin, base terrier bot, and some others which are only worth mentioning because of the ability to purchase them during a basing match.

below is a list of items that one could buy inside a safe zone back in the day. to be honest, i would keep every item on that list.

PRICE: MultiFire=500 AntiWarp=3000 Repel=500 Burst=500 Decoy=5100 Rocket=500 Portal=2000

we could additionally consider the layout of public and changing it to ensure that a stray LT will not be able to ruin a perfectly running base match. i do not see much point in having a roof and thus limiting the access (or removing it completely) to that area could probably be a step in the right direction.

these are my recent opinions, although i'm not covering everything, and they may vary from the opinions of those who are in charge of public at this moment.

[bkgmjo]

The idea of removing roof has come up a few times, but has always been turned down. And that was a good decision, as placing LTs and roofers in the spot of the ultimate game killers is completely wrong. Look at all the anti-LT pub changes the past years, there has been the worst stuff out of a nonsense rage against them, far enough to kill off a big chunk of the population quite a few times. What never happened though was an increase in pub players as predicted by all those hating against Levs and LTs. Instead people now rely on a bot to kill their target and use it as built-in cheat, just like most of the !buys.

There are surely things leagues and pub can adopt from each other, but removing variety from this game is a definite step towards it's extinction. Also, it seems as though haters only see private LTs being around. Levs and LTs have been a valuable tool in basing for soon 20 years. From inside, from mid and from roof and it's sides they take over the role of the heavy artillery and I would always hope for an experienced LT and maybe one or two roofers on my freq when basing. Even the private freq ones can often be used to the own advantage and if not, always give an exciting target to hunt. As said many times before, if you want to go for pure basing with boring as hell always-the-same games with absolutely no surprise factor, there is ?go base and twbd.

[Turban]

i'm all for having more variety in public, and by no means want to restrict the options as public is essentially what you make it, hence why my suggestion of removing roof remained as a suggestion. it could something that we can vote on in the future and even trial for a short period of time to gather opinions of the public players.

however the truth is that our leviathan population is at an all-time low as they have been on the receiving end for years, basically giving up on the zone, and it is unlikely that we will be able to make many of those players return even if we reverted the changes. this is something that needs to be considered before making any decision(s) which affect the remaining leviathan population. we can either make the leviathan players happy while upsetting the players who passionately hate all leviathan users, or slowly push them away from the zone, as harsh as that sounds.

i would want to give some sort of direction in public to promote team work and competition, but that is easier said than done. a good leviathan is always a great asset for any frequency, but those are rare to find nowadays.

[bkgmjo]

Actually many of the old LT people keep logging on and check what pub is like. But even without them, what is the reason not to build it up again with new players? Why only promote parts of the game and not all?

If you want to promote teamwork, you really should consider that LTs by default only work as a team, while many other things do not need another player. To really be successful as LT you also need more than just a Terr and a Lev, which creates even more team play. And to hunt those really experienced ones, you again need a team of hunters. On basing freqs it would be part of team work to spare a hunter.

As for "good leviathan players" in base... they have been punished with being the only ship not able to buy inside base, while Javs can freely roam around with super, shield and tons of shraps for example. Also the small weasel was introduced years ago and has since only caused trouble and had a negative impact on basing (while promoting solo flag steal missions since this gives a bonus) due to the combination of lag, rockets and it's miniature size. It got an upgrade in speed, recharge, firepower, turn rate, acceleration, size, and toys. And guess what? It's prime target are BaseLevs. Then staff caring about intentional Jav vs. Lev team kills and spec hunting in pub barely happened the last years, which is also shown in several posts complaining about it. Even in my ZH days mods used to not believe me when I sent in videos and/or screenshots clearly showing illegal action against Levs, simply because "they have to see it themselves", which will not happen when they watch for 2 minutes. The two side entrances make being BaseLev even harder as people come in from all sides and there is barely a retreat spot. And just to compensate for this punishment they also got their bombs reduced to 2/3rd strength along with the insult of painting L2 bomb blue, like it would really fool them (which by the way also keeps causing confusion on players who read tutorials on weapon colors). Oh ya I forgot, of course antiwarp has to be excluded from !buy buyblock, because Levs aren't punished enough yet.

Now tell me how a newbie would seriously want to go through greening in spawn for ages, while others get a reward for laming them and then sit in base trying to learn how to be a good BaseLev, while everyone else is at a huge advantage. Talking to Lev players about balancing and teamwork with such settings is kind of a sick joke.

This is coming from someone who barely plays Lev, only supports and wants them on his team, btw.

But after all, to say it again: final decisions on Levs will be thought about when the priorities are dealt with and as also stated before, I will bring everything reasonable to the discussion about it before. I doubt anyone wants another experimental phase for a few months, years or a decade on pub.

[Turban]

i get your point, and feel that if leviathans were left alone years ago things would be better as players were used to playing with and against them in public. some players specialized in hunting leviathans where as others focused on more defensive roles to protect this heavy piece of artillery. now that aspect has slowly died from our zone as a result from all these anti-leviathan changes, which include roof turret bots and antiwarp + super combos.

if its true that a lot of old leviathan players are still around, waiting and monitoring, then that is good. my opinions are based on the assumption that they are long gone and that there is no way to salvage the situation.

[Fork]

i get your point, and feel that if leviathans were left alone years ago things would be better as players were used to playing with and against them in public. some players specialized in hunting leviathans where as others focused on more defensive roles to protect this heavy piece of artillery. now that aspect has slowly died from our zone as a result from all these anti-leviathan changes, which include roof turret bots and antiwarp + super combos.

if its true that a lot of old leviathan players are still around, waiting and monitoring, then that is good. my opinions are based on the assumption that they are long gone and that there is no way to salvage the situation.

Is it possible to have like 2-3 spider bots that wait above the 2 ears of flagoom and they only target terr\ levs? I guess they could shoot more slower so lts have a chance but a) it would be hard for LTS to ruin flagroom (if somehow they couldn't shoot from a distance away onto the flagrrom top) b) it would be a challenge for LTS to successfully shoot near flagroom without dying. Otherwise I see no harm modifying walls\ make flagroom a solid wall around it so even an l3 bomb wouldn't do any harm if it hits wall... I guess I could experiment with stuff when I get time and see if I can make a slightly altered pub version with reinforced flagroom outside walls (lvls would be prob be better than tiles as too much tiles would increase fps). Perhaps wormhole surfer could give it a shot )) but I'm guessing he's burnt out from his last efforts in making a better looking pub.

Would be funny if walls could be destroyed from a Lev bomb... Make a very large thick wall around flagroom and it could take about 10 bombs to break the wall down... People in flagroom would start to panic when they slowly see the flagrooms defense is about go while trying to fight for the flag... Would be epic haha.

[Demonic]

Is it possible to have like 2-3 spider bots that wait above the 2 ears of flagoom and they only target terr\ levs? I guess they could shoot more slower so lts have a chance but a) it would be hard for LTS to ruin flagroom (if somehow they couldn't shoot from a distance away onto the flagrrom top) b) it would be a challenge for LTS to successfully shoot near flagroom without dying. Otherwise I see no harm modifying walls\ make flagroom a solid wall around it so even an l3 bomb wouldn't do any harm if it hits wall... I guess I could experiment with stuff when I get time and see if I can make a slightly altered pub version with reinforced flagroom outside walls (lvls would be prob be better than tiles as too much tiles would increase fps). Perhaps wormhole surfer could give it a shot )) but I'm guessing he's burnt out from his last efforts in making a better looking pub.

Should avoid bots where possible, what happens when bots die and people are used to it? Pub was best at its simplest in my view, with ?buy and not bots controlling it. I thought prior to me going it was agreed this would be removed completely, so don't know what has changed since.

[Fork]

Should avoid bots where possible, what happens when bots die and people are used to it? Pub was best at its simplest in my view, with ?buy and not bots controlling it. I thought prior to me going it was agreed this would be removed completely, so don't know what has changed since.

If all the bots die, there would b no basing anyway since there would be no timer? Or you only mean the spider bots die? But could the main bots recognise they are not working and auto change Lev bombs from l3 to l2? (A fail safe). I don't know what's possible but I guess a bot could do that.

PS plz don't troll me kthx, just having a discussion and throwing crazy ass ideas

[roxxkatt]

or of course there would still be basing because flags arent controlled by bots