TWDCup is a FAILURE - Still can be fixed.

[IxaDor]

Might as well make a topic about the nonsense that is TWDCup. Unknown to most of us until yesterday, that if your squad doesn't have enough points to be in the top 5 out of 9 squads, you have 0 chance of playing. There is a lock on qualified squads from allowing new players to join and compete, which most of us were under the impression did not exist. We were aware of Captains being softlocked which made sense, this though, is extreme and doesn't make sense.

I talked with Skyforger about this situation yesterday, since he seemed to be all too aware of the rules and my guess, most likely helped establish them. I don't mean this in a negative light either, I respect Skyforger, Wirah, ect and view them as friends. Anyways, if nothing else, he runs in the same circle of folks who did make these rules.

What I don't understand why they feel the need to make it so only top 5 squads can play and bestowed my views about this to Sky; that it would be much more fun to watch, to play and be overall more beneficial for the community as whole to allow all 9 squads a chance to compete. But no, according to Sky (and Qans forum post), they are going to turn a league that can be someone fun for EVERYONE and not a total disaster, into a pile of hot steamy garbage.

When I asked Skyforger why not let all squads play, his answer was and I quote "it wouldn't be fair to the squads that persevered to be in top 5"..

OK PAUSE FOLKS..



Think about this for a second please, let it marinate inside your mind. Think about the new rating/point systems in place. You know.. The fact just breathing air while logged into this game nets you points.




LOL.. Holy Shit.




Really? Persevered? REALLY?



Though am I SURPRISED? NOPE.


Just a little disappointed since I've been hyping this TWDCup thing for weeks now and was sure this league would be a fun one to play on for a change since things have been terrible the last 6 months. But no, it's turning out to be just like everything before and that really sucks.

Getting points for being ACTIVE is NOT persevering anything unless your a retarded millennial who believes participation deserves rewards. Now I will say, if the old system for points was in place, I'd totally not even bat an eye at this fact since winning and losing games mattered, but since it rewards so heavily on just playing a match and requires ZERO/NOTHING for skill involved, I am miffed. It's a sick fuc|<ing joke to believe by logging on and playing a games is a some form of perseverance or somehow translates into a higher skill set that is recognized.

Is there any chance that this can be addressed properly?

If nothing else, allow people like Gass and myself and everyone else who has been very active, just not on the insane level of those like Jessup who can stay on this game 24/7 with a squad that has over 50 people, to have a chance to join other top squads and compete?

That, or remove top 5 squads and allow all the squads a chance to play. We could run "Wildcards" matches or something. You'd get more games, you'd get more spectators and you wouldn't separate the community so badly.

What incentives do the other 4-5 squads who didn't get in to playoffs have to log on and play now? NONE. There is no other leagues going on either to fill the void.

Do you not see the issue here? AT ALL?

Please reconsider how you guys approach this because it's basically a big "FUC|< YOU" to everyone who couldn't play as much as say Jessup.

If nothing is done, I know myself and many others will not being logging in for sometime, hell, just a week ago I was going to quit until I realized that's what Jessup wanted me to do and does to everyone who opposes him on this game. I would die before I gave him any such pleasures. But now I think I want to quit just because there is no point to playing, especially if those who run this game are going to be total pricks about it and ignore community feedback.

Thanks for reading and I hope to God you take this clusterduck mess into consideration for once. To give in and listen to players it's not a sign of weakness or belittlement, it's actually the opposite and shows us that you are worthy of such powers. Too many in power feel like if they actually listened and acted on what they know is right, that it would make them be perceived as weak or worse, that type of thinking needs to go out the window. We, the players are here to work with you guys, not against. Cheers.

-IxaDor

PS: Before you hop on here and do the "Too bad your squad didn't make it" Jessup/Wiibimbo, please don't. Take your shit elsewhere, this doesn't concern your squads since you are both in. You have nothing to say or worry about.

[mtine]

Might as well make a topic about the nonsense that is TWDCup. Unknown to most of us until yesterday, that if your squad doesn't have enough points to be in the top 5 out of 9 squads, you have 0 chance of playing. There is a lock on qualified squads from allowing new players to join and compete, which most of us were under the impression did not exist. We were aware of Captains being softlocked which made sense, this though, is extreme and doesn't make sense.

I talked with Skyforger about this situation yesterday, since he seemed to be all too aware of the rules and my guess, most likely helped establish them. I don't mean this in a negative light either, I respect Skyforger, Wirah, ect and view them as friends. Anyways, if nothing else, he runs in the same circle of folks who did make these rules.

What I don't understand why they feel the need to make it so only top 5 squads can play and bestowed my views about this to Sky; that it would be much more fun to watch, to play and be overall more beneficial for the community as whole to allow all 9 squads a chance to compete. But no, according to Sky (and Qans forum post), they are going to turn a league that can be someone fun for EVERYONE and not a total disaster, into a pile of hot steamy garbage.

When I asked Skyforger why not let all squads play, his answer was and I quote "it wouldn't be fair to the squads that persevered to be in top 5"..

OK PAUSE FOLKS..



Think about this for a second please, let it marinate inside your mind. Think about the new rating/point systems in place. You know.. The fact just breathing air while logged into this game nets you points.




LOL.. Holy Shit.




Really? Persevered? REALLY?



Though am I SURPRISED? NOPE.


Just a little disappointed since I've been hyping this TWDCup thing for weeks now and was sure this league would be a fun one to play on for a change since things have been terrible the last 6 months. But no, it's turning out to be just like everything before and that really sucks.

Getting points for being ACTIVE is NOT persevering anything unless your a retarded millennial who believes participation deserves rewards. Now I will say, if the old system for points was in place, I'd totally not even bat an eye at this fact since winning and losing games mattered, but since it rewards so heavily on just playing a match and requires ZERO/NOTHING for skill involved, I am miffed. It's a sick fuc|<ing joke to believe by logging on and playing a games is a some form of perseverance or somehow translates into a higher skill set that is recognized.

Is there any chance that this can be addressed properly?

If nothing else, allow people like Gass and myself and everyone else who has been very active, just not on the insane level of those like Jessup who can stay on this game 24/7 with a squad that has over 50 people, to have a chance to join other top squads and compete?

That, or remove top 5 squads and allow all the squads a chance to play. We could run "Wildcards" matches or something. You'd get more games, you'd get more spectators and you wouldn't separate the community so badly.

What incentives do the other 4-5 squads who didn't get in to playoffs have to log on and play now? NONE. There is no other leagues going on either to fill the void.

Do you not see the issue here? AT ALL?

Please reconsider how you guys approach this because it's basically a big "FUC|< YOU" to everyone who couldn't play as much as say Jessup.

If nothing is done, I know myself and many others will not being logging in for sometime, hell, just a week ago I was going to quit until I realized that's what Jessup wanted me to do and does to everyone who opposes him on this game. I would die before I gave him any such pleasures. But now I think I want to quit just because there is no point to playing, especially if those who run this game are going to be total pricks about it and ignore community feedback.

Thanks for reading and I hope to God you take this clusterduck mess into consideration for once. To give in and listen to players it's not a sign of weakness or belittlement, it's actually the opposite and shows us that you are worthy of such powers. Too many in power feel like if they actually listened and acted on what they know is right, that it would make them be perceived as weak or worse, that type of thinking needs to go out the window. We, the players are here to work with you guys, not against. Cheers.

-IxaDor

PS: Before you hop on here and do the "Too bad your squad didn't make it" Jessup/Wiibimbo, please don't. Take your shit elsewhere, this doesn't concern your squads since you are both in. You have nothing to say or worry about.

Just as I thought I wouldn't be mentioned, I read the PS line. GG.

[IxaDor]

Just as I thought I wouldn't be mentioned, I read the PS line. GG.

You are incredibly stupid and weak, a merit in it's own right I admit. Why are you even posting here on something that doesn't concern you dingletarded babynutts? LOL.

I even warned you not to but I forgot that you are severely mentally challenged and are incapable of simple request. I even spaced out my sentences so you could read them easier while wearing your helmet.

I did notice something good though Wii, I see that I am off "ignore" list here in forums where you feel safe, right on. Missed you. NOT.

Anyways, being honest here but I doubt you'll even be played in playoffs since Potenza is quite fine without you. I know, it's much harder to choke down than the usual nut juice you enjoy. You'll most likely ride the bench where you belong or cheerlead Iron on while you massage his taint n balls because you are so pathetic. So yea. GG lil boy.

Now kiddo, let the grown ups discuss legitimate topics here and move on to another thread because this literally this has nothing to do with you and even if it did, you wouldn't be able to comprehend what is being said. If you are desperate to be obliterated verbally or via gameplay, take me off ignore next time we are on together and I'll gladly end your suffering. Thanks but not really.

-IxaDor

[Dierienow]

Future incel mass murderer spotted

[mtine]

You are incredibly stupid and weak, a merit in it's own right I admit. Why are you even posting here on something that doesn't concern you dingletarded babynutts? LOL.

I even warned you not to but I forgot that you are severely mentally challenged and are incapable of simple request. I even spaced out my sentences so you could read them easier while wearing your helmet.

I did notice something good though Wii, I see that I am off "ignore" list here in forums where you feel safe, right on. Missed you. NOT.

Anyways, being honest here but I doubt you'll even be played in playoffs since Potenza is quite fine without you. I know, it's much harder to choke down than the usual nut juice you enjoy. You'll most likely ride the bench where you belong or cheerlead Iron on while you massage his taint n balls because you are so pathetic. So yea. GG lil boy.

Now kiddo, let the grown ups discuss legitimate topics here and move on to another thread because this literally this has nothing to do with you and even if it did, you wouldn't be able to comprehend what is being said. If you are desperate to be obliterated verbally or via gameplay, take me off ignore next time we are on together and I'll gladly end your suffering. Thanks but not really.

-IxaDor

So much anger for such a little boy. Pity. And who said I'm gonna bench? And even if I do, I'll still be there, you won't. So why the hate? I did it, you didn't.

Wii out

[Rab]

Qualification

It was known from the start of the TWD season that there would be a playoff, called TWD Cup.
http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthr...Sun-March-18th

Details of TWD Cup format were posted 2 weeks before season end.
http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthr...WD-Cup-Details

The bottom few squads are usually inactive, so there has to be a cut-off to avoid no-shows. I think we have 6/7 active squads by this measure.

If all active squads qualify then there's no reason to compete for a higher TWD ladder position.

We have two incentives to compete for a higher ladder position:
1. The last 1/2 active squads don't qualify at all. That's incentive at the bottom end of the ladder.
2. The playoff is seeded (#1 vs #4/5 etc). That's incentive throughout the ladder.

I proposed Top 4, for a neater playoff bracket that can be completed in 2 Sundays. All the guys you mention are more generous than I would have been.

With squads not losing points, if a squad wasn't expecting to need to be in the top 5, then realised 2 weeks ago they did need to get into the top 5, it's quite hard to do so. Ill managed it, so it's possible, but still it would have been better to know this from the start.

Bug: The ladder states "Squads without a game played since 6 days are not listed", but squads are listed which don't meet that criteria so something isn't right.


Roster Controls

9.7. To be eligible for TWD Cup participation and medals a player has to be rostered on the squad atleast 10 full days before Regular Season close.

I didn't know about this either, but it is in the rules and the TWD Cup forum post. I support the concept that the players who compete should be the same players who qualified.

Once per TWL season, squads would dissolve and reform into something more likely to win medals. I think that played a big part in population decline and I support any attempt to avoid squad destruction going forward. If there were no roster controls, your squad would probably dissolve now. Are you saying you want your squad to dissolve just so you can play TWD Cup?


Points for Losing

Note: +$5 or +$0, doesn't make any difference. We would have to revert back to full blown point losses to make an impact.

You call out Paladen for having more Games Played, but the vast majority of their points came from Wins. If any ratings format put Psyiagon over Paladen, it would be considered broken.

TWDD:
Paladen: 74G, 32W, 42L, W:L: 0.8
Psyiagon: 17G, 4W, 13L, W:L: 0.3

TWJD:
Paladen: 40G, 12W, 28L, W:L: 0.4
Psyiagon: 33G, 4W, 29L, W:L: 0.1

This topic has been discussed at length already, it comes down to trying to promote activity. I'm not a fan of participation rewards, but it does seem like TWD has been more active this season than last season.

So you could have the old rating system, and nobody playing it; or the new rating system, and some people playing it; or some unknown third option.


Failure??

TWD Cup isn't a failure, it hasn't even started. What's wrong with letting it play out, then reviewing it afterwards? Maybe we like it, maybe we change it, maybe we never do it again. Let's see.

Changes from community feedback have to take effect in future seasons, not this on-going season.


Ixador League

Just an excercise to try and interpret from your post what you actually would want changed.

Ratings: full blown losses, which would be irrelevant because of...
Qualification: any active squad, which would be irrelevant because of...
Roster Controls: none

[GLYDE123]

Just think Bout it your squad didn't qualify In a league where you get points for just playing................................... how????? Get outta here complaining your squad didnt get in.

[Zeebu]

i still think you put a pyramid system in place and then make 2 mandatory games per week at a scheduled time from the squads able to challenge you.

[IxaDor]

Whatever, seems that everyone in charge is in favor of this bullshit so there isn't much else to say other than I am incredibly disappointed that A. people who have been active but didn't get in the top 5 can't join competing squads in hopes of play and B. that rather than have more games, more fun, more activity and more spectators by allowing all squads a chance to compete its going to stay to it only being the top 5 squads. If Rab, Henry, Wirah, ect. were on a team that got shafted by these rules, no doubt in my mind would they change it but since staff is secure, they don't give 2 shits. That's on them though, goes for the consequences for their actions they'll no doubt suffer in the long run from ousting so many active players.

I'd also like to note Rab, that yea, winning does net more points but the old system, you'd only get the most points by winning against squads above you on ladder. That is no longer the case here, it's increased tremendously against any squad played and pays out heavily no matter who you beat which made it nearly impossible for little squads who aren't playing 10-15 games a day to compete. Come on, Paladen has 1800 pts and a good 500 pts of that was just from losing. Our squad played 1-2 games every day, I also tried to incorporate people in spec and loved to borrow, just to get people active and yet it was never enough and we got nothing from it. Awesome!

It's not just me or my squad who is upset about these bullshit rules, there are LOTS of people upset. You guys are just killing off more active players from this game by refusing to listen to us and you don't give a rip. It's unfortunate but not surprising. If you guys want this game to die so fuc|<ing bad, don't let me stop you. You guys are doing a phenomenal job! Keep it up!!!

-IxaDor

[Rab]

If Rab, Henry, Wirah, ect. were on a team that got shafted by these rules, no doubt in my mind would they change it but since staff is secure, they don't give 2 shits.

Nah that's bollocks. If staff moved the goal posts people would go mental, that's partly why they're not moving it now.
p.s. I'm not staff.

Come on, Paladen has 1800 pts and a good 500 pts of that was just from losing.

It's 5 points per loss. The highest number of losses was Paladen's 42 losses in TWDD, so that's 210 points.
I did a spreadsheet of this a couple of weeks back: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
That's how I realised that changing from +5 to +0 for losses wouldn't change the ladder outcome.
You're right to point out that not losing points impacts points rewarded for a win, that's a bit complicated.

It's not just me or my squad who is upset about these bullshit rules, there are LOTS of people upset. You guys are just killing off more active players from this game by refusing to listen to us and you don't give a rip. It's unfortunate but not surprising. If you guys want this game to die so fuc|<ing bad, don't let me stop you. You guys are doing a phenomenal job! Keep it up!!!

Nobody's refusing to listen. There's discussion about the future of TWD/TSL/TWDT/Etc going on. Sounds to me like it's likely to solve most of what you've raised here for future seasons. I'll talk to folks about making some of it public because you'd defo be less annoyed if you were more informed.

[Zeebu]

if you guys really want to reward activity over skill why exclude any reasonably active squad from participation?

[Rab]

if you guys really want to reward activity over skill why exclude any reasonably active squad from participation?

Because if everyone qualifies there's no reason to play TWD.

[Rasaq]

Because if everyone qualifies there's no reason to play TWD.

Makes complete sense. Paladen equals everyone, so I guess there's no reason to play TWD. Shit squad qualifying for a shit league.

[Ricko]

the real question is though....did ANYONE actually have an issue with the original TWD points system we had in place for 15 years? Absolutely no one complained about getting negative points for a loss. Only fans of this change are the ones who can't win.

EDIT: Why was the points system ever played with? The points system WASN'T what made TWD inactive.

[mtine]

the real question is though....did ANYONE actually have an issue with the original TWD points system we had in place for 15 years? Absolutely no one complained about getting negative points for a loss. Only fans of this change are the ones who can't win.

EDIT: Why was the points system ever played with? The points system WASN'T what made TWD inactive.

Jessup had something to do with it.