A big concern in elim arenas, plz read. Thanks

[Bolt]

Originally posted by SS Vincere
Actually this isnt news, this happens almost all the time and other forms of teaming without any penalties!
I with u Eric, all the way but the fact is that the staff is and have always been a bunch of scared pussies im sorry to say.

They're all good at hosting but enforcing rules seems to come in second hand and im not surprised that nothing has happend during all this time.

Sure mister, you got the <ER> tag and the power. But you can't handle it !?! Same goes for the whole staff --->Basically<---

Like when I reported a cheater and had an ER in the same arena (no names) he kept on playing like nothing had ever happend.

If the staff can't live up to enforcing the rules and make the changes that have to be done in the future it would just make me laugh cuz i doubt anything will ever get done for as long as they all have their hands stuck up their asses.

ER stands for Event Referee, their job is not to ban people, it is to host. It is the mods who are to enforce the rules.

[PEGASiS]

Who cares?

EiG, you're cool with me and all but this is a little out of hand. The fact remains that you are wayyy to upset about a 2d internet game against people that you should never meet. We are talking about Elim, an arena that is lame. Everyone spawns and vulches, and everyone has a bad game, even the best people from the best squads. Skill is not the only thing that matters in there, so rank is often just a bunch of meaningless bullshit. I have given Mug freekills as well as many other people. It doesn't bother me because I have a life outside of SS and I hope that everyone else does too. If you know that you can leave your computer and go do something fun, then this whole issue shouldn't matter to you. Lighten up and have fun, that's what this game is about. If some people get off on having unreal ratios from free kills, let them. Go play on the other side of the arena. It'll be ok .

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Originally posted by SS Vincere
I with u Eric, all the way but the fact is that the staff is and have always been a bunch of scared pussies im sorry to say.

Herein lies the problem. I'm an ER, right? Here's a typical situation--we get a LOT of tk/cheater calls per day. 99% of the time, someone picks up the problem within a matter of about 30 seconds.

Now, let's say someone makes a ?cheater call saying that "-*GooFz*-" has been tk'ing in pub 0. Let's go further, saying that I take the call. I show up in pub 0, and begin to watch GooFz, meanwhile letting the caller know that I'm on the job. We'll say that GooFz then proceeds to tk a team member. Here's where a warning would be issued. GooFz then pm's me, telling me he's been getting tk'ed the whole time by the entire team, and is just retaliating. I tell him that that doesn't make it right (meanwhile also PM'ing the accuser, asking him politely not to retaliate, even if he has in the past), and again politely ask him to stop. He does it again. I lock him in spec, and explain the issue to him. I release him from spec, and he proceeds to tk again. I ban him. He proceeds to scream about injustice and fills Dantax's, Mr. Spam's, and my e-mail inbox with e-mails about how I wrongly banned him for one day. Spam and I end up having to have a talk about why he was banned.

You'll also have the occasional repeat offender, who purposely pushes the limits and then complains (to no end) that staff is picking on him/her when they get banned for longer and longer periods.

You see where I'm going? It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Instead of blaming ERs and mods for banning/not-banning, how about everyone take a look at themselves and the people around them, and ask "why don't I just take care of this myself?" Mods and ERs (with the privilege of of BanG) deal with a lot of problems every day, ranging from cheaters to mediating "Timmy called my country stupid! Make him stop!" arguments. The majority of these problems are never black and white, and force the mod/ER to make a judgement call. Most times, the call is justified. A small minority of the time, the call is questionable. But there is, in fact, a checks and balances system in place to look over these questionable calls.

We play a game that is loosely based around anonymity, which some people think gives them a free ticket to be an asshole. I'm not saying that you should have to conform to a specification, just use a little common sense and decency. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

[Sleepy Weasel]

First off I agree 100% with everyone EiG said. I've seen the same thing happen a number of times recently, I've tried doing a ?cheater call for it, and 0 response. It is against the rules of elim. As 2D pointed out you're not allowed to refuse to fight, plus it's just a whole common sense issue. Staff seems to care about teaming, but for some reason just chooses to completely ignore this rule. As for punishment, specing people is just absolutely 100% ineffective and downright ridiculous. They do this to improve their rank, meaning after they have got the kills they are just going to want to spec for rec. If staff specs them.... exactly how is that any punishment at all? They are purprosely abusing the rules with no regard toward their fellow players and should be banned. I don't see how anyone on staff could disagree with this.

Edit: I agree a lot of ?cheater calls are judgement calls, but this particular thread is about just straight up blatant disregarding the rules of elim and receiving no punishment for it. A lot of these guys dont' bother disguising their actions because they know it doesn't matter if people see them doing it or not.

[Pearl Jam]

Force all spawners in elim to play in Extreme Games for 3 months, 2 hours a day.

That'll cure just about anyone of their bad ways.

[banzi fuq]

Re: Who cares?

Originally posted by PEGASiS
EiG, you're cool with me and all but this is a little out of hand. The fact remains that you are wayyy to upset about a 2d internet game against people that you should never meet. We are talking about Elim, an arena that is lame. Everyone spawns and vulches, and everyone has a bad game, even the best people from the best squads. Skill is not the only thing that matters in there, so rank is often just a bunch of meaningless bullshit. I have given Mug freekills as well as many other people. It doesn't bother me because I have a life outside of SS and I hope that everyone else does too. If you know that you can leave your computer and go do something fun, then this whole issue shouldn't matter to you. Lighten up and have fun, that's what this game is about. If some people get off on having unreal ratios from free kills, let them. Go play on the other side of the arena. It'll be ok .

so everytime someone cheats in any sort of game in real life you are just gonna suck it up and not complain? some people like to play fair games. obviously you lack much of a life too, as well as mug..because that is the only way you can get ranked good..as opposed to people who just have fun playing the game and happen to do good consistantly..earning a decent rank. it all works both ways.

[Troll King]

Yes, the whole "it's only a game" and "it's not real because you'll never meet these people" argument is getting tiresome and is weakening with its every utterence.

[Randedl]

vinc, the way things are handled is after a cheater call is made, a mod says that they will look into it. the er in ur arena would only take chat call u made if nobody else was available. so don't blame them. it's proceedure.

conc, didn't know er's cud put ppl into spec in pub

and ya, elim bans = good idea, ppl realize now that there is little to no punishment regarding cheating in elim and thus just laugh in the face of staff members who punish them. i've had a few cheaters complain about "not being warned" after they have been specced all day for the same thing.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Originally posted by Randedl
conc, didn't know er's cud put ppl into spec in pub

Heh, theoretical situation of what I'd do as a mod... ERs can't do it, you're right. As an ER, you just get warned twice.

[Spiderman]

Originally posted by Bolt


ER stands for Event Referee, their job is not to ban people, it is to host. It is the mods who are to enforce the rules.

oh jee an ER has been given some access to ban ppl and they don't have to use it....

Whatever the case maybe, all staff members are obliged to helping the TW community grow, no matter what position they are in

[SS Vincere]

Originally posted by Spiderman


Whatever the case maybe, all staff members are obliged to helping the TW community grow, no matter what position they are in

True and couldnt have said it better my self.
And Conc, I see your point bout the conversation between you and Spam, but it would just confirm that the staff is so pretty tired up in thier own net that you guys cant even solve a basic problem without making a big deal out of it.

If someone brakes a rule more than once and have already been warned bout, a ban is the only solution ... I dont think it can get more crystal clear than that. The staffs purpose is to make SS/Cont a better game to play and uphold order in the various arenas but it seems that they (the staff) are so god damn busy to keep a strict heirarchy within their own they forget the basics... isnt that ironic? That you cant even warn a person without getting shit from above proves the mods have no confidence in their staff what so ever.

[The Crimson King]

Crime And Punishment

Just a couple of thoughts I had. If you don't like reading posts that use complete words instead of "ur," "ez," etc., you might want to skip this one.

(1) First off, the rules should be stated in a clear and concise fashion. (I think they are, at this point, but this makes a good jumping-off point into the rest of this post.)

(2) Further, those rules should reflect sound policy judgments by staff regarding what behavior is -- or is not -- good for the game. Obviously, some issues are not as clear-cut as others (for instance, I would ban any and all intentional teamkilling, be it retalitory or not, because from a policy standpoint it's bad conduct detrimental to gameplay, yet staff has frequently been lenient on this point), but it's fairly clear that the practice of giving out (or receiving) free kills in a game in which your ranking depends on the number of kills you accumulate is conduct that is bad for the game, not socially valuable, and all-around undesirable.

(3) The next step, however, is enforcement of these well thought out, clearly stated, policy-reflecting rules. Everyone has their own story (or stories) about rules not being enforced in TW, or being enforced inconsistently in certain cases, depending on the identity of the offender. That being said, I have a few suggestions:

(a) Operate under the presumption that everybody knows the rules. Do you really need to warn a player that his intentional teamkilling in a pub arena is against the rules? Chances are 99 out of 100 -- and that's a conservative estimate -- that he already knows. Immediately dropping a one-day ban on that player -- and anyone who retaliates, for that matter -- will, in the long run, cut down on disciplinary problems by providing an EXAMPLE to the TW community that the rules aren't just bullshit sitting in the upper-right corner of the map; you have to follow them, and if you don't follow them you will pay the price. (Generally, legal systems don't issue you a warning for voluntary infractions, they issue you a punishment. Why should TW law be any different? I can give you an extremely long-winded explanation of why issuing warnings isn't good policy ...)

(b) Implement more draconian penalties for bad behavior. Again, this will deter future objectionable conduct, thereby reducing the frequency of "?cheater" calls to staff and allowing TW staff members to do other things like host private basing matches (and we're all for that). I know that a lot of the people who play this game are young people, and young people by their nature like to test boundaries. Fair enough. But does it matter AT ALL whether you hand down a one-day, or one-week, or any length of ban to Jane Blow Cheater? I'm sure we'll get along without the perpetrator while she takes a day or a week to consider whether breaking the rules just to be an asshole is worth doing the time.

(c) Staff should be able to trust that its members are not going to abuse staff powers. This relates to what Conc was saying above, about having a talk with Mr. Spam because some player complains about a one-day ban (I'm not criticizing any particular staffer here so don't read that into what I'm saying, I'm just speaking in general). Maybe the solution lies in having more objective criteria in staff recruiting, for one. As it is, the criteria seems fairly subjective. Requiring a basic level of maturity for new staff members is a good idea. (Because kids are, let's face it, more prone towards bad behavior.) Further, perhaps some basic guidelines for staff behavior in gameplay would heighten confidence in staff integrity. (For instance, I don't need some staff member bitching at me in elim about "noob lamer" -- although that's what I am, haha -- over a perfectly legitimate kill. I can get that in pub from some other noob lamer. . .) And if a staff member has very little latitude -- i.e., clear and concise guidelines -- as to her response to badly behaved players, it makes monitoring the actions of that staff member much easier; either they applied the rules or they didn't. Enough said.

(d) In conclusion, if the rules are clear, and the penalties for breaking those rules are severe, as well as consistently and fairly meted out, the system is better. The policy judgments behind the rules are more effectively observed, and gameplay is better for everyone. And besides, it's a free game -- like a gift from God, if you will. If some kid breaks the rules and gets banned for it, he's got no right to bitch.

[Isreal]

hah, funy coincidence

i was specing the corener where all this happned at the time.
this is what i thought they were doing:
all of the where hiding at the corner, after the 'Go' Mug started killing them, they tryed to kill him but it seemed he was laging VERY bad, and he got more then a few kills.

bottme line: it didnt look to me like they were purposely giveing him free kills.

[Tobe]

Originally posted by Kid Kaos
Giving someone an advantage over the rest of the people in elim is whack.

This is kinda stretched but, isnt practicing/dueling/playing alot dont all those things give you an advantage over other players? :/

[Epinephrine]

Originally posted by Troll King
Yes, the whole "it's only a game" and "it's not real because you'll never meet these people" argument is getting tiresome and is weakening with its every utterence.

You aren't real! You aren't real! You aren't real!



Seriously though... There isn't any real rule against teaming. All the mod can do is spec someone for it, but cannot ban. If people could actually get banned for playing lame like that, then I bet you'd see a lot less of it.

-Epi