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**Clichy** · 07-14-2004, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by geekbot

We have more important things to do during TWL but the basing MVP was changed from something sort of broken (most points) to something really broken (crazy formula that doesn't work IMO- for one it's based on points when the game is based on time). And I was afk when FoN asked for feedback for MVP so I'm giving my ideas now.

Caveat #1: Stats don't matter- teamplay, etc. etc. matter
Caveat #2: W/L Ratio and MVP are meaningless
Caveat #3: STFU I want to look at stats

Points based games should have MVP based on total points. MVP for timed games should be more like fantasy sports (TWLM is all about stats...why shouldn't they use similar formulas?). I think this fantasy-style MVP calculation is simpler and easier to understand:

Terr
+2 per Tek
+1 per FC
+1 per 10 kills
-1 per 2 deaths

Fighting ship
+2 per Tek
+1 per FC
+1 per 30 kills
-1 per 30 deaths
-1 per 4 Tk

Shark
+2 per Tek
+1 per FC
+1 per 20 deaths
-1 per 6 unused repels
-1 per 4 Tk

With this style MVP, TeK and flag touches are most important. All ships get +2 for a Tek, +1 for a flag touch, and -1 for 4 tks. A ship specific ratio also contributes to the MVP calculation.
terr: +1 per 10 kills, -1 per 2 deaths
shark: +1 per 20 deaths, -1 per 6 unused reps
fighting: +1 per 30 kills, -1 per 30 deaths

The current MVP is something like this: http://forums.trenchwars.org/showpos...6&postcount=57. If you look at any recent TWD games, the terrier can often get a 30 to 40k rating while the shark is often -5 to -10k if it Tks at all. The MVP race usually isn't much of a race.

I made a spreadsheet to see if my "fantasy-style" MVP works and entered the last 3 basing matches. You can see a terrier with a great rec and Teks will MVP. A shark that keeps the TKs low and touches flag a lot can also MVP. Javs/spids of course can also MVP.

You can copy paste other games from the TWD site into the spreadsheet easily to try out the stats. Unused reps are not shown on the TWD site so I just made up numbers.

DL spreadsheet here (direct link doesn't work)

Last three games that are already in the spreadsheet:
http://twd.trenchwars.org/body.php?a...nMatchID=56139
http://twd.trenchwars.org/body.php?a...nMatchID=56150
http://twd.trenchwars.org/body.php?a...nMatchID=56129

If this was also used for TWLM, the MVP points could pretty much directly be added up as your score for a fantasy team.

hmmmz.......... yep ur a nerd

**Stabwound** · 07-14-2004, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by Killerbee2

hmmmz.......... yep ur a nerd

I guess a nerd is anyone that says something that you don't understand.

Anyway- as far as the current formulas go- they suck. The shark MVP formula is broken and has been ever since it started using the "RepelsLeft" stat- which is probably the part that breaks it. It's been gone over a lot on these forums, and is pretty obvious just from playing a few base games; the current formulas don't work.

As for your formulas;

I think that TeK (TerrKills) should give only a +1 rating bonus. That is still a pretty significant bonus, and +2 is too much for sure. A +1 bonus for a TeK would be the equivilent of about 10 regular kills, which seems about right.

Also, I don't think that sharks should be given a bonus that is related to Deaths. A stat like that simply dictates how someone has to play a ship in order to get MVP, much like the current formulas do. Dying excessively and quickly as a shark is not always the best thing to do.

Also looking at the shark formula, I'm not sure that UnusedRepels is the best stat to use in the formulas. Using that stat, a shark would get a -1 rating deduction for simply being attachkilled twice in a game, which is very likely to happen and usually isn't avoidable.

Again, with the shark formula, I think that sharks should get some kind of rating bonus that is related to kills; maybe +1 for every 10 kills. It doesn't make sense to penalize for TeamKills, yet give no rewards for Kills.

As for your other stats; I don't see any obvious problems, so I'll let other people pick at them and make some suggestions.

**geekbot** · 07-15-2004, 02:46 PM

shark
Attach kills can be prevented and IMO is as much your fault as it is your terrs. During the respawn timer you have still have the view of where you died and if I see that an instant respawn-attach will kill me, I avoid it by waiting a second to attach. I see you point though, if you're terr is really bad there's nothing you can do.

I also agree that sharks should get points for kills. Perhaps a +1 per 30 kills should be added to make it the same as the fighting ships. It's not the job of a shark but if a shark gets some kills, it should get points. My rec is usually something like 2-50 so I didn't think about that.

The reason why I made the shark ratio +1 per 20 deaths, -1 per 6 unused reps is because the main job of a shark is to rep and die. It's true that dying quickly isn't the point but if you are using all your reps, eating bullets and jav bombs, and not wandering around after you're out of reps, generally you are doing the right thing. I think the ratio is the best we can do at capturing that.

Maybe working in total number of reps (to account for greened reps) would be helpful. I wanted the stats to be fairly simple, maybe there's a simple way to do that?

Tek
My opinion is that a terr kill is more important than a FC so it should get more points. A team that TeKs is a team that is able to set up their cram/line/mid defense. A team that FCs a lot is one that is controlling the FR battle (a la brookus). Also important, but I think the goal is to TeK- it is more complete control of the flag. I like +2 for Tek and +1 for FC.

ratio
The ratio doesn't really get you that many points...Teks and FCs are most important. For example, a spider that goes 70-40, 2 TeKs, and 2 FCs gets 7 MVP points but only 1 point from the positive rec. Maybe that's skewed too much and it should be more like +1 for 20 kills and -1 for 20 deaths. I was trying to emphasize the team aspects and might have gone overboard.

You can exploit my MVP system by going for TeKs and FCs but I'd rather lean that way than towards a system that is exploitable by camping/playing for rec.

**Lucon** · 07-16-2004, 03:57 AM

Oh god, I can barely understand any of the acronyms in the first post. I wish my squad was good enough to play TWD.

**geekbot** · 08-26-2004, 12:54 AM

After playing some more and watching TWL I think Teks are way more important than FCs. A FC will get you 5-10 more seconds, definitely important and can make the difference in the game. But a TeK gets you between 30 sec to a coule of minutes or even 10 minutes if the cram is tight.

I'd change my original formulas to +1 per 5 FCs

Also, it's a lot harder dying with 0 reps than I thought (especially if you're greening a lot). -1 per 6 unused reps is pretty tough.

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