New TWL qualify rule?

[Marduke]

Just before last TWL season, I noticed a trend with some squads and wonder if something could be done about this.

I will use Heavy squad as an example.

Heavy basically dd'ed alot of mediocre squads to gain points to get way up in the ranks like 1300-1400 ratings range, then they go somewhat inactive or avoid playing tougher squads for the rest of the twd season for twl qualification.

I honestly think they did this on purpose.

It is a clever strategy, but doesn't seem fair. I wonder if there is a solution for this problem in the future.

I know Heavy did fairly well in twld and not saying they didn't deserve their spot. Just if they played more better squads and not go dormant, then there would be more respect for them.

Anyhow, they aren't the only ones who did this before. I just used them as an example. So sorry heavy if I'm singling out your squad, I have nothing against Heavy.

I'm curious to see what others think about this issue and if anything can be done about this.

The only solution is some new TWL rule to deal with this.

Something like they must be within top rank #1-12 or so. But also have certain # of games they have played and how frequently(none of this dd weak squads and then go dormant); and also take into account their AVE R.

I'm sure even others on here, might have better ideas then what I wrote above.

Its good they show AVE R in ladder stats page, good indicator of the squad. Like if I see below 1050 AVE R and that squad is within top5 on twdd ladder, I have my doubts about that squad.

I think I posted this thread in the appropiate forum, since it deals with twd to twl qualifications.

And its a good time to post this, since Twl qualification is coming in afew months or so.

[Jeansi]

Not giving 1000 points to all squads at reset, sort of giving 1200 for all 1200+ squads, 1000 for squads with 1200-1000 points and 900/800 for the rest.

Might be unfair for the squads with a bad last season but I don't give a damn.

[Darkmoor]

I like the idea of a qualification between the top 32 TWD squads. Claushouse made a nice post about it last year. http://forums.trenchwars.org/showpos...75&postcount=9

[Jeansi]

top 32 rule would be a great thing but it woud require a lot of work because of the 48 extra games that would have to be hosted before the season could even start. On the other hand, these 48 games could serve as a pre-season so I don't know.

[Rigor]

man top 32 would be so much fun :grin:

we should do something like the top 20 squads in the twd ranks should be able to participate in an "election" for the top 12 or 16 spots (i forget howmany) or however many spots are left (due to the auto takein for playoff squads). This would make sure that squads like my little ponys dont get in and stuff. :P

[RascaL]

I wasn't in heavy during last TWL, but i'm here now...and people say that they didn't twdd these so called "good" squads, but that's quite wrong. Whether people were to ignorant to notice, they had beaten many of the top squads, such as sk8, disoblige...and others, to far back to remember. I'm not "attacking" you marduke, but the ignorance of some people in this game can be quite annoying.

On topic, there should be no change to TWL qualifications, top 12 (or however many it will be this season) get in, unless the TWL Ops feel a certain squad really hasn't earned there place in TWL, and has only played the newer squads of TW.

[smokes]

"Just before last TWL season, I noticed a trend with some squads and wonder if something could be done about this.

I will use Heavy squad as an example.

Heavy basically dd'ed alot of mediocre squads to gain points to get way up in the ranks like 1300-1400 ratings range, then they go somewhat inactive or avoid playing tougher squads for the rest of the twd season for twl qualification. "

Or you could have a squad like gantz who played a bunch of tough squads and earned peoples "respect" and still went 0-10 in TWL. So I dont think who you play pre TWL is a good indicator on how you will do in TWL but more the talent on the squad and how you work as a team. No matter the system you use there will still be below average squads gettin in.

[Kuukunen]

Hmm, won't comment on the 32 thing, but I'd also like to point out it won't work on basing or spiders. There's not even 32 squads on the ladder. :P

One other option would be to expand TWLD and TWLJ to 32 squads.

[Dameon Angell]

Well, if you look at Heavy, as an example, their Average Rating of squads that they fought is 1116 (could change after this post) which means they've been fighting within the top 16, if we're talking about the TWDD.

And I think the TWL qualifying is fine as it is, because of at least how I view it.

Top 16 (give or take spots for pre-qualified squads)

Now, say you get an Elenya or two in there, by the process of 'survival of the fittest' the lesser squads would already be destroied by the already better ones.

Now, what if this "lesser" squad would actually get into the playoffs or ... *gasp* EVEN WIN THE SHIT that would just be crazy.

So, if a lesser squad wants to play with the big boys, let them, but they better come with their A game every week or they'll be slapped down back to TWD.

And before you smartasses of the game (Yes, I know who you are) go off saying "OMG DAMEON SAID I CAN CHEAT TO GET TO THE TOP) stop right there. Everyone can see your fight history, and if you fight 1 squad 14 times to beat them, or have an average fight rating of 900, then once you get to that level, everyone will take note and it'll be taken into consideration.

[Marduke]

Yeah, I agree the current system works quite well to a certain extent. And as Dameon used that point, if they wana play with the big boys let them, if they don't bring their game then they will be spanked in TWL like gantz did last season.

Dameon has a good point, however, some other worthy squads might miss out on TWL and some lousy squads that squirmed their way into TWL will take their spots.
In the end, making TWL less competitive, and allowing the SuperSquads to get landslide wins.

All I'm saying is make sure squads who get high in the ranks just play active somewhat and have somewhat high AVE R stat.

Not feed on mediocre squads and then go stagnate for 1-2 weeks.

I'm not ignorant of what Heavy did last year, they had something like 1440 pts and went stagnate for awhile. Anyhow, I think Heavy is a different squad now and don't do this anymore. Just using Heavy as an example, no Heavy isn't like this now and respect them more for that.

As for 32 squads, not sure about this, but yeah should play atleast something like 48 games to show they are active enough.

[Dameon Angell]

My arguement is that if they were actually "worthy" they wouldn't let the newbs squirm in anyways. Usually squads who don't get in use that as a shallow excuse. Anyone can play armchair quarterback when it comes down to TWL..

"Oh man, my squad coulda beaten them, not this newbie squad who got in by winning alot of games in TWD to lesser squads."

Well ... that's great, but where were you when they did that? Why don't you go beat them, beat other squads, beat better squads to pass them. Cause if you can't beat those better squads to get past that one "lesser" squad, then you'd get crushed as well yourself cause you'd be no better than that one squad.

[Marduke]

Dameon you have many valid points and I agree with you.
The bottomline is it just encourages many other squads to use the same tactics.

The whole point of this thread when I created it, was to say for TWL qualifications you need to take a few more twd stats into consideration. Not solely on ladder rank...

AVE R
-- Average Rating of Enemy, a good indicator. So if a squad makes top ten on the ladder, they should have an AVE R = 1050+.

Minimum # of games played and frequency of matches:
-Someone said something like 48 games played minimum.
-Also atleast playing like 5 matches per week or something.

I'm just throwing #s, so not 100% sure. Just an example or idea.

For example;

Say some squad is rank #5 on the ladder but has an AVE R of 1000.

Yet there is another well known squad at rank #16, but has an AVE R of 1150.

The squad at rank#5 gets into twl, while rank#16 squad just misses it.

Anyhow, thumbs up for new twd website and ladder listings, especially for showing AVE R stat. It is very embarassing for your squad to have a high rank yet low AVE R.

Like at the beginning of this twd season, in twdd, Syne was #1 and had AVE R = 965. Then they started lose and play harder squads, but eventually they were sort of high up for a while but with higher AVE R. Just when they were #1 and AVE R =965, it was sort of a joke; but they smartened up later on, which was cool.

[Doc Flabby]

AVE R + score = new ranking way

why not combine the aver R and score to get the rank of a squad that way it would represent the quality of opposition and wins.

Maybe a more complex forumla than the one ive used is need as the average quality of your opponent shouldnt be as valuable as your score.

Anyway with the new system The ladder would look something like this. Interesting to note the top 5 has stayed exactly the same.

#	twdd position	Squad	G	W	L	W:L	AVE R	Rating 	New Rating
1	1	Sk8		77	64	13	4.9	1145	1491	2636
2	2	Grapevine	89	64	25	2.6	1155	1435	2590
3	3	Quicksand	102	74	28	2.6	1147	1394	2541
4	4	Soulcamp	64	45	19	2.4	1089	1355	2444
5	5	Militaris	198	140	58	2.4	1116	1320	2436
6	10	Luck		32	17	15	1.1	1174	1219	2393
7	15	Search		35	19	16	1.2	1219	1166	2385
8	8	Disoblige	34	18	16	1.1	1132	1237	2369
9	16	Pirates		37	17	20	0.9	1200	1161	2361
10	7	Heavy		24	19	5	3.8	1120	1239	2359
11	12	-FINAL-		20	14	6	2.3	1152	1186	2338
12	9	Stor		212	146	66	2.2	1109	1225	2334
13	11	DragonGuard	87	44	43	1	1141	1190	2331
14	19	Gladiator	10	6	4	1.5	1189	1124	2313
15	6	my little ponys	151	96	55	1.7	1012	1282	2294
16	38	Dodging		2	0	2	0	1262	982	2244
17	14	kikkeli		23	15	8	1.9	1075	1169	2244
18	35	Laser		1	0	1	0	1231	990	2221
19	21	-Legacy-	142	75	67	1.1	1114	1100	2214
20	18	Warpath		77	41	36	1.1	1066	1136	2202
21	30	Ancients	3	1	2	0.5	1182	1005	2187
22	20	Task		10	7	3	2.3	1044	1111	2155
23	22	Mean		14	8	6	1.3	1070	1085	2155
24	24	Doctrine	36	18	18	1	1099	1052	2151
25	17	Jeckels		15	12	3	4	999	1149	2148
26	25	BasingCrew	25	11	14	0.8	1102	1040	2142
27	31	tree sex	3	1	2	0.5	1131	1003	2134
28	26	Melee		45	24	21	1.1	1086	1037	2123
29	43	ReJeCtEd BaSeRs	6	1	5	0.2	1167	954	2121
30	46	Wingmasters	6	0	6	0	1188	926	2114
31	37	_Punch_		1	0	1	0	1123	983	2106
32	34	Paladen		40	14	26	0.5	1104	992	2096
33	13	Ownage		43	32	11	2.9	922	1171	2093
34	23	Ossify		98	44	54	0.8	1029	1062	2091
35	32	Spastic		24	8	16	0.5	1082	996	2078
36	29	British Squad	22	10	12	0.8	1064	1012	2076
37	39	hOlY Te<<oRz	1	0	1	0	1090	981	2071
38	27	BoZ		9	5	4	1.3	1034	1032	2066
39	28	$Flabby$	71	26	45	0.6	1044	1019	2063
40	33	Unionville	22	8	14	0.6	1064	996	2060
41	36	Bad Obsession	14	5	9	0.6	1061	984	2045
42	56	TeKs		19	1	18	0.1	1157	842	1999
43	42	Sky Chiefs	4	1	3	0.3	1036	961	1997
44	51	STONERZ		11	1	10	0.1	1112	885	1997
45	48	Demean		5	0	5	0	1055	907	1962
46	50	Flame of War	13	2	11	0.2	1070	892	1962
47	45	Jaba		7	2	5	0.4	1009	948	1957
48	49	>Hollow<	18	4	14	0.3	1053	898	1951
49	44	Wings of Eldruw	10	4	6	0.7	983	952	1935
50	47	Not Enough	63	35	28	1.3	1010	925	1935
51	52	Dudgeon		27	7	20	0.4	1042	881	1923
52	40	AIDteam		25	13	12	1.1	942	970	1912
53	55	Anti-Scrub	30	7	23	0.3	1064	847	1911
54	57	Infanite	12	1	11	0.1	1047	836	1883
55	59	Legion of Sci	22	2	20	0.1	1075	792	1867
56	53	<FF>		29	8	21	0.4	981	872	1853
57	54	The Siren	13	2	11	0.2	998	851	1849
58	41	BoomDoda	1	0	1	0	850	965	1815
59	58	.DragonS.	74	37	37	1	911	832	1743
60	60	toughsquad	42	2	40	0.1	1013	679	1692

[RascaL]

Yeah, I agree the current system works quite well to a certain extent. And as Dameon used that point, if they wana play with the big boys let them, if they don't bring their game then they will be spanked in TWL like gantz did last season.

Dameon has a good point, however, some other worthy squads might miss out on TWL and some lousy squads that squirmed their way into TWL will take their spots.
In the end, making TWL less competitive, and allowing the SuperSquads to get landslide wins.

All I'm saying is make sure squads who get high in the ranks just play active somewhat and have somewhat high AVE R stat.

Not feed on mediocre squads and then go stagnate for 1-2 weeks.

I'm not ignorant of what Heavy did last year, they had something like 1440 pts and went stagnate for awhile. Anyhow, I think Heavy is a different squad now and don't do this anymore. Just using Heavy as an example, no Heavy isn't like this now and respect them more for that.

As for 32 squads, not sure about this, but yeah should play atleast something like 48 games to show they are active enough.

Lol, we're worse than that now...i don't think we could be more inactive :P.
But that's just the nature of heavy...we don't play all the time, which is one thing that makes us good, we don't get stressed when playing....and so on, it's a game :P

Aug 24 win Ossify
Aug 23 win my little ponys
Aug 23 win STONERZ
Aug 23 win Suicide Kings
Aug 23 win Militaris
Aug 23 win $Flabby$
Aug 23 win Dudgeon
Aug 22 win DragonGuard
Aug 22 loss Quicksand
Aug 22 win Infanite
Aug 22 win Search
Aug 21 loss Quicksand
Aug 21 win Fine Again
Aug 20 win Paladen
Aug 20 win Ossify
Aug 20 win Infanite
Aug 20 loss kikkeli
Aug 19 win $Flabby$
Aug 18 win DragonGuard
Aug 18 loss Disoblige

But, Mr. Marduke, if we take a look at SouLcaMps current record...they are #4 or something, and have THIS record (above)...So, uum - not trying to take a stab at sc, just pointing this out :P

[Doc Flabby]

new ranking method

anyone like my new ranking method?