TWBD Proposal

[Zeebu]

ok turban convinced me.

every shark starts with full shrap. but lets up it from 5 to about 12. set it to fixed equal angle pattern.

there we go. i think i would like to shark now <:-)

[Turban]

and the other day i was sharking as you were terring you ran over a repped burst on my screen but obviously not on yours while i was attached and we had just gotten into the base so i died and you didn't. BUt since you no longer had a shark with reps within 20 secs you died.

thats random and due to lag ... if ppl are going to complain abuot shark shraps repped bursts are equaly random and different. the duration of the burst should be reduced severly or removed entirley if you are going to try and be a purist abuot this but thats the thing with lag it's never going to be pure so just take it as part of the game and bad luck.

though reducing the length of time the bursts are active isn't that bad an idea

heh.

unfortunately for you, bursts and repelled bursts can't be compared with shrapnel as they are completely different. bursts will always follow a set pattern and they are easy to predict if you pay some attention to the screen. of course, repelled bursts may go different paths depending on the latency differences of the team -- but even then they are predictable and easy to dodge.

if i recall right (aka if i somehow haven't turned senile and forgot) bursts stay alive until they have traveled a distance of X pixels; which is why repelled bursts will remain active longer than non-repelled ones.

shrapnel is all about luck currently; and don't give me that probability stuff, even you don't believe in that shit. i personally (yes, i've said this a few times on this thread already) would love to try out playing with shark with shrapnel having a set (circular) pattern. you could even change the shrapnel angles to make sharking even more effective. just give it a shot, i can guarantee you (rofl) that it'll be worth it. :fear:

[Pressure Drop]

When I'm teering I can't stand random shrap, always seem to get hit by shrap that my sharks don't see.

Still, it's been a part of basing forever and something that keeps you on your toes.

I'd be willing to try it in twbd4 and see what its like though. As for greens, def keep them as they are now.

and the other day i was sharking as you were terring you ran over a repped burst on my screen but obviously not on yours while i was attached and we had just gotten into the base so i died and you didn't. BUt since you no longer had a shark with reps within 20 secs you died.

thats random and due to lag ... if ppl are going to complain abuot shark shraps repped bursts are equaly random and different. the duration of the burst should be reduced severly or removed entirley if you are going to try and be a purist abuot this but thats the thing with lag it's never going to be pure so just take it as part of the game and bad luck.

though reducing the length of time the bursts are active isn't that bad an idea

[Displaced]

When I'm teering I can't stand random shrap, always seem to get hit by shrap that my sharks don't see.

Still, it's been a part of basing forever and something that keeps you on your toes.

I'd be willing to try it in twbd4 and see what its like though. As for greens, def keep them as they are now.

[PH]

covering the cancer with a band-aid isn't going to make it go away

[Turban]

I wouldn't mind seeing it in action to confirm my hypothesis. I'm guessing those angles successfully minimize shrap damage by capping its possible trajectories. Furthermore, one doesn't really get to "aim" his/her shrap as you suggested because the shrap doesn't go straight down.

you could still aim the shrapnel, even if it doesn't go straight down..

just have to know in which pattern the shrapnel flies (with 3 or 5 shrapnel, do ?status to see the shrapnel count) and rest is just up to you and your skill.

^-^

let's try it out!

[Tigron-X]

except that ..

.. turretwars2 shrapnel is twice as slow compared to twbd arenas and you have way more time to react to changes/bombs with all that space in that arena.

you could always place mines to different locations to maximize the damage -- click here to see what i mean. light blue represents mines with 3 shrapnel and dark blue represent mines with 5 shrapnel. you could even bomb a wall to hit someone with shrapnel + it's not that easy to dodge shrapnel even it were set like this. repelled mines will be hard to avoid, especially with shrapnel, and you can't know whether the mine has 3 or 5 shrapnel either.

of course a good shark shouldn't have a problem with this (at all, tbh) -- but not everyone is that good. everyone makes mistakes, or you could try to time the mines/bombs when a shark only has one repel left. you could try to be creative with this change and get tons of kills. if you ask me, this wouldn't make shark boring at all.

just like people hated the cram change, and started loving it -- this could happen even if we changed the shark a bit. just do it in TWBD3/TWBD4 and i'll try to play all my future BDs there as a shark/spider there and comment how it feels like after a couple of games.

I wouldn't mind seeing it in action to confirm my hypothesis. I'm guessing those angles successfully minimize shrap damage by capping its possible trajectories. Furthermore, one doesn't really get to "aim" his/her shrap as you suggested because the shrap doesn't go straight down.

I think your proposal does nothing short of minimizing shrap damage.

I think this will actually hurt sharks rathar than benefit them.


And yes, turretwar2 shrap is slower, but it also covers all angles. So, evern if you keep the speed that's in basing, the trajectory is still predictable by good players -- which was my initial point.

[Jones]

As for the "lucky" shrap... It's not a "lucky" shrap. There is probability involved. Sharks can place mines at key points to increase the probability of shrap streaming across a specific area.

aaah probability. reminds me of God's Debris.

[riske]

I think having fixed angles on shrap would be the best solution.

About the greens, I am torn about that, I also hate randomness in games, but I also love getting a few greens in a row trying to break cram and raping the entire otherteam by yourself(but it happens so sparingly, even for good spiders unlike me, its not -that- bad..) so I wont pick a side..

[Turban]

By making shrap trajectory predictable, it means players can sit out in the open without risk. It'll just be too easy to dodge. One can see how easy this is in a good game of Turretwars2. (And, don't come back with, "If it makes turretwars2 fun, then it'll make basing fun." Which is bs because there isn't that kind of quantity of shrap in basing.)


I think there is an emotional factor here that's being overlooked, and that's the frustration created by these fluctuating variables.

except that ..

.. turretwars2 shrapnel is twice as slow compared to twbd arenas and you have way more time to react to changes/bombs with all that space in that arena.

you could always place mines to different locations to maximize the damage -- click here to see what i mean. light blue represents mines with 3 shrapnel and dark blue represent mines with 5 shrapnel. you could even bomb a wall to hit someone with shrapnel + it's not that easy to dodge shrapnel even it were set like this. repelled mines will be hard to avoid, especially with shrapnel, and you can't know whether the mine has 3 or 5 shrapnel either.

of course a good shark shouldn't have a problem with this (at all, tbh) -- but not everyone is that good. everyone makes mistakes, or you could try to time the mines/bombs when a shark only has one repel left. you could try to be creative with this change and get tons of kills. if you ask me, this wouldn't make shark boring at all.

just like people hated the cram change, and started loving it -- this could happen even if we changed the shark a bit. just do it in TWBD3/TWBD4 and i'll try to play all my future BDs there as a shark/spider there and comment how it feels like after a couple of games.

[Tigron-X]

that's why you wanted full charges in TWLD too, right?

how about we try out the fixed (circular pattern) shrapnel in TWBD3/TWBD4 and see how people like it? at least in my opinion it would be a lot more fun to actually use some skill in shark and gain a lot of kills easily, rather than relying on a lucky shrapnel to hit the enemy. you would be guaranteed to get kills if you are good enough.

add it to BD3/4 and test it. it'll be fun. it won't make shark boring. at all. you guys are just a bunch of morons if you think that's the case. :wub:

Yes, because tactically retreating to regain footing by greening a Full Charge when out numbered is so unskillful -- such cleverness should be taken out of the game!

See.. I like challanges. That's why I like those unexpected variables. It keeps you on your toes. It makes winning harder.

But, let's save that discussion for the warbird thread.

As for the "lucky" shrap... It's not a "lucky" shrap. There is probability involved. Sharks can place mines at key points to increase the probability of shrap streaming across a specific area. It's not aimed like a sniper, but it's aimed more like artillary.

By making shrap trajectory predictable, it means players can sit out in the open without risk. It'll just be too easy to dodge. One can see how easy this is in a good game of Turretwars2. (And, don't come back with, "If it makes turretwars2 fun, then it'll make basing fun." Which is bs because there isn't that kind of quantity of shrap in basing.)


I think there is an emotional factor here that's being overlooked, and that's the frustration created by these fluctuating variables.

[Reaver]

I think this is a philosophical debate that each game has to come to its own decision on. Basically you're either for luck being involved in a game by the game itself having a random number generator (in the case of shrap, which greens you get, etc.) or you're in favor of a more competitive and less luck based non-RNG. Of course there are different levels of these two, you could have a 95% skill based game with only a small amount of RNG and all other sorts of variations. For me I'd rather take as much luck out of the game as possible. Of course you can't really completely eliminate it but getting rid of the random-direction shrap would be a step in the right direction in my opinion because I favor a game that leads to the more skilled team winning the majority of the time. Same goes for greens but I'm not so sure prizing the specials would be the right way to go about it.

[Vatican Assassin]

i appreciate your ideas, but disagree

i rep before i see the shrap obv, i dont want to be able to wait and decide if i have to rep it

i also don't want to get a burst every 20 greens, i want those rare times when i get a burst use it, get another use it, get another use it, and i want those times when i go 5 mins without a burst but its ok cuz i saved mine for the right time

i like randomness, it keeps every game fresh and unique as possible

tired of getting hit by random shrap? find a shark that can double rep, shark is in fact a very difficult ship cuz you have to learn to deal with all the seemingly randomness of it

sharks aiming shrap? no

however, turban is a smart baser and i'm down to test his ideas in bd3 and 4

[duel pasta]

I haven't read all the replies but fuck that

leave everything as it is, if your spiders would kill more they would have more greens for you to get a portal :P

and the random shraps and unbalanced greens are part of the game, it's fun to see a terrier die by a shrap that didn't even hit him!

also no to reduce shrap damage to 1300! >:C

shark is the most fun ship to play in basing imo and I wouldn't want to see it changed one bit

[Dwopple]

keep shrap the same, sharks should know to rep once they see a bomb/mine go off incase of random shrap. its what keeps sharking hard, if we knew the angles of shit it would make things easier. easier=boring