Make Double Squadding Legal! Yes I actually am saying this...

[Gripe]

I agree with Cres.

This is like Titanic with Leonardo DiCaprio when Spicer Lovejoy slips the diamond in Jack's coat pocket, and then blames him for stealing it, and proceeds to have him arrested. THE SHIP IS GOING DOWN, FUCK THE DIAMONDS. GET TO A LIFE BOAT, FIND A FLARE GUN, DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE.

[Godzero]

Only when those questions are actually answered, will any direction be the right one for players and not staff trying to second guess what is right or wrong.

So, I'm assuming since you said this after patronizingly shooting down both the "community squad/double squadding" ideas from the good people in this thread, that you are personally (as head Sysop) going to find out the answers to your own proposed questions (which you claim stop these ideas dead in their tracks) through staff meetings, public polls, forum threads, etc, instead of just arbitrarily suggesting that the problem is too complicated for a solution that staff might possibly be blamed for if it were implemented and was disliked by the general population.

Personally I don't think "running twd only at certain times" is even a viable enough option to suggest at this point, and while I understand the point you were making when you said it ... it is now obvious (among with possibly being too disconnected from the CURRENT game/population) you have no real solutions to offer after you so quickly shut down others, as your vague "more competitive play" system sounds more like an afterthought than a real suggestion.

If these solutions don't work, yet you admit there is a problem ... then don't just sweep it under the rug for another day. People are debating in this thread because people like you haven't ACTUALLY thought of a better idea yet.

[roxxkatt]

cant wait to see a match of a squad of 100% dsers against another squad of a different name, comprised of 100% of the people on the other team

[bkgmjo]

So elitist full squads and cannon fodder "community squads" for those newbies not in the circles yet? Sounds like mild fun, at least for one side.

[Left_Eye]

I was going to say something very similar; big community squads you can just log on to 4v4 with would, to me, feel very much like wbduel. If the squad I was actually committed to got a twd match or needed me for a twd match then I'd instantly switch and ditch the community side. Plus as eph said this could actually fracture us more as tbh if I was sat waiting to twd for ages and it turns out one of my players had been aliased and playing on one of the community squads I'd probably be slightly annoyed....we need squad loyalty to not become a thing of the passed (even more so than it is now).

A player could be a member of it's "actual" squad along with a member of the "community" squad. They wouldn't have to be one or the other at a specific time. The community squads would be there to accompany your original loyalty to your main squad when your main squad was dead, but you still felt like having a competitive game play in TWD. Also, why would it feel like wbduel to you when the squad you would most likely be playing would be a squad trying to rank up in and of itself. WBDuel is just for fun because the score you end up getting doesn't really matter. However, if you win games against another squad while on your community squad, you lower that team's ranking/points, giving your loyal squad an upper hand later on. I doubt people are going to stop trying especially when there are still incentives to winning. It's not like a community squad would duel community squads all, or even most, of the time. As you have said, the assistants would probably have others to choose from that would want to twd at that same time that your original squad would have gotten a twd game. The assistants would be able to control who is in or substitute people who aren't doing well. It would be just as having another active squad playing for the sake of competitive game play. We have to face the facts that the current structure of TWD cannot support this many "loyal" squads and still hold games often. The squad numbers themselves either need to be trimmed down so people are condensed more to promote more full game plays or some other idea needs to work out. I think this idea will really work as long as you have dedicated captains/asscaps who know how to manage a squad and challenge/substitute properly, etc.

TWD was created when TWL became not enough for constant players (with as big of a population as we had in the past). Right now, our population can't really fill the role it's meant to have with how many squads we have in comparison to how many players play this game daily. Unless you condense the squads permitted to sign up, this problem will still continue. I honestly feel that 3v3 dueling is more akin to 1v1 and 2v2 style of game play than 4v4 and 5v5. The 3v3 dueling did breathe life into TWD because of how little people have on to duel at one time, but these community squads are more likely to keep people online if they can TWD until their main squad has more to TWD with on their own. WBDuel, JavDuel, and even Base do not fulfill the role or keep people online that these community squads could fulfill. I still think squad loyalty would be there, and more people would prefer to play with their TWD squad than on these community squads, but as for losing it's competitive essence, I doubt that would happen because who likes to be creamed completely by a team that is actually trying to win points? Also, the more you cream the other team, the lower their own score goes, giving your squad a bigger chance to go higher for TWL/TWD rankings. There are far too many checks and balances inherent in a community squad idea to think it would fracture competitive team play, in my opinion.

[Demonic]

cant believe im saying this but I completely agree with cres etc..

Allowing infinite squadding basically makes twd wbduel. I guess you need to look at why people play twd over wbduel, the chance to be on a squad and win with friends? The chance for bragging rights to go unbeaten? The chance to be top of the ladder? Take twl qualifications out of the mix for a second, what actually does this bring to twd which you don't have in wbduel/javduel etc??

Granted double squadding is not as bad as above, but the principle is similar to a much lesser extent. The question people need to answer is why don't people play twd as much now. Has it become all too familiar and boring? Has twd basically become wbduel anyways? 3v3 breathed some life into twd as planned, but this can only ever be temporarily and will get to the stage where even 3v3 becomes hard. Its lost its attraction to playerbase, and that's something only players can fix as they need to think why this is like it now. I don't think double squadding is necessarily the answer to this puzzle.

If its stats people like for glory etc, then a more competitive type of system needs to be in place so players can brag. If its too familiar, then should twd only run at certain times (as it used too 2001-2004?) prior to bots, and players had to have games manually hosted, thus less familiarity. If its just want to play with friends, but they rarely log on, then meh not much we can do about it. Only when those questions are actually answered, will any direction be the right one for players and not staff trying to second guess what is right or wrong.

[Crescent Seal]

I think community squads would not be any different than wbduel. the reason people will lagout of wbduel to ?go twdd is because people have loyalty to their squads and wbduel is throw away. I think community squads would be treated the same way. This is an actual question, and i may not be in touch enough with this game to know the obvious answer if there is one, but what's the problem with just allowing people to double squad on an aliased name? it was like that for years, and they were active years. So you may have a main squad that you're loyal to, and want to alias on *LAVA* or whatever on an alias.. that means when your squad is inactive, instead of logging off, you switch names and play as spacefighter1234 on your secret newb squad... it's all about giving people a reason to not esc + Q. There are probably many many reasons that have contributed to the current health of this game, most of it probably due to age in general, but it only seems logical to me that if you want the population you had in 2005, try reversing some of the seemingly arbitrary rules and implementations that we have today, and didn't have then.

my jigga has spoken

[Fork]

Rab people could (and probably do) abuse the crap out of squading at present (if they wanted to risk being banned), with this idea- would u really need to cheat if your constantly playing twd games? In fact people may stop creating dif ip adds in order to play more games on dif squads but who knows, someone will prob try it but they are more likely to get caught if you can only double squad on 3-4 squads.

It very well could create arguments as eph mentions, but you have to remember that (using left eyes idea) these special squads that u can ds on are not allowed to participate in twl meaning that you should respect your other squad (if u wanna play twl) otherwise they will just axe u each time u take the piss. Players may clash after a player on their special squad plays against their other squad and win but:

1) if the original squad cares about losing, they are probably thinking about participating In twl so isn't it good that their player is getting more exp and improving?

2) players will eventually adapt and get on, otherwise they will keep getting axed and if they wanna play twl, they will learn to get on.

The only other problem (with this idea) is when squads are trying to qualify for twl with a few days to go, people are going to be really annoyed with their players vsing their own squad and losing them precious points. I propose to disable these special squads 1 month prior to squads qualifying for twl.

[Ricko]

I think community squads would not be any different than wbduel. the reason people will lagout of wbduel to ?go twdd is because people have loyalty to their squads and wbduel is throw away. I think community squads would be treated the same way. This is an actual question, and i may not be in touch enough with this game to know the obvious answer if there is one, but what's the problem with just allowing people to double squad on an aliased name? it was like that for years, and they were active years. So you may have a main squad that you're loyal to, and want to alias on *LAVA* or whatever on an alias.. that means when your squad is inactive, instead of logging off, you switch names and play as spacefighter1234 on your secret newb squad... it's all about giving people a reason to not esc + Q. There are probably many many reasons that have contributed to the current health of this game, most of it probably due to age in general, but it only seems logical to me that if you want the population you had in 2005, try reversing some of the seemingly arbitrary rules and implementations that we have today, and didn't have then.

I was going to say something very similar; big community squads you can just log on to 4v4 with would, to me, feel very much like wbduel. If the squad I was actually committed to got a twd match or needed me for a twd match then I'd instantly switch and ditch the community side. Plus as eph said this could actually fracture us more as tbh if I was sat waiting to twd for ages and it turns out one of my players had been aliased and playing on one of the community squads I'd probably be slightly annoyed....we need squad loyalty to not become a thing of the passed (even more so than it is now).

[Gripe]

Good point eph. That could be a problem and make things chaotic. Sleeping on my idea I guess I do have some reservations about it. That said, Left eyes idea could be a happy medium. I think a few community squads we could d/s on could actually work. That way it would be a given that anyone on an opposing squad would naturally play against them. It would remove favorite factor completely. Even set a rule if you are d/sing on a community squad you can only play the match with your main squad.

I think community squads would not be any different than wbduel. the reason people will lagout of wbduel to ?go twdd is because people have loyalty to their squads and wbduel is throw away. I think community squads would be treated the same way. This is an actual question, and i may not be in touch enough with this game to know the obvious answer if there is one, but what's the problem with just allowing people to double squad on an aliased name? it was like that for years, and they were active years. So you may have a main squad that you're loyal to, and want to alias on *LAVA* or whatever on an alias.. that means when your squad is inactive, instead of logging off, you switch names and play as spacefighter1234 on your secret newb squad... it's all about giving people a reason to not esc + Q. There are probably many many reasons that have contributed to the current health of this game, most of it probably due to age in general, but it only seems logical to me that if you want the population you had in 2005, try reversing some of the seemingly arbitrary rules and implementations that we have today, and didn't have then.

[Jessup]

Good point eph. That could be a problem and make things chaotic. Sleeping on my idea I guess I do have some reservations about it. That said, Left eyes idea could be a happy medium. I think a few community squads we could d/s on could actually work. That way it would be a given that anyone on an opposing squad would naturally play against them. It would remove favorite factor completely. Even set a rule if you are d/sing on a community squad you can only play the match with your main squad.

[Ephemeral]

Would not double-squaded players will always default to their ‘favorite’ squad? What happened when the two squads play each other? One squad and its player feel like they got screwed? Or is the thinking that the double-squaded players would always be ‘fair’ and split their time equally between the two squads?
I understand the allure of trying this; on paper it seems to have some merits. But IMO in practice this would end up causing a lot of hard feelings, apathy, and frustration with those who are supposed to be leaders of a squad/zone.
eph

[Rab]

I could abuse the crap out of this, you shouldn't implement it.

[Hulk]

They won't allow double squadding cause they want to see the zone die. pls moof on. ty

[Fork]

Actually, are there any "pro players" left who do not know how to get around alias checks? What is there isn't foolproof and won't ever be due to technical limitations. So might as well make it legal and increase activity. Maybe limit to one name on TWD and for TWL qualifications make people on the TWL roster play a minimum number of games for this squad against other squads who signed up for TWL to avoid self-qualification.

Having more open squads might actually make squads more than mere TWD again and has a chance of affecting pub as well and bringing in more fun to the whole game. Years ago spontaneously formed squads which battled for flag in pub often turned into something that kept players interested and spiced things up. Would love to see that coming back and we really need to bind the different areas of the game closer together to offer something for vets and newbies alike at all times of day. Waiting for something to happen anywhere half of the day won't really convince any new players to stay, no matter how convinced some vets are that TWD is the greatest fun in the world. If it does not happen it's pointless.

If it were up to me I would implement left eyes idea of having 3-4 squads that allows people to double squad (excluded from twl). It will work, will cause twd activity to go way up/ make the game much more fun. There is no doubt because most people only play this game for squad action. Players on normal squads that dont hav 3 players online will now stay online to play squad battles on their other squad. it should make people stay online longer. There are 2 priorities for dev to work on: improve the appearance of pub/ better link between pub and twd (new players will know twd exists somehow after playing a minute in pub) and left eyes idea.