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TWDT Season 26 Rules - Feedback Needed

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  • #61
    I don't have strong opinions either way, but in my experience twdt's also a training and teaching league. My past three winning draft leagues have all included players getting better and taking leaps and bounds forward (eg. me, veh, uprise) with experienced players giving out pointers and showing things, like sarger helping out low star spids and zid helping veh and oggie's crazy scouting reports. People weren't mostly weren't underrated out of the gate, but were given a chance to succeed. One doesn't get that experience and an inclusive chance to win playing on juice or lululemon even though i had a blast.

    Also while viop as a capt might be playing a manager game he's still giving his team the same thing, a chance to win. Having close to free hands on trading does enable lower star caps which can be seen on how viop doesn't play himself. This season's player pool is pretty concentrated and star cap's low so that might effect the chances of succesful trading since there's more players to go around.
    ​​​​​
    Regarding cram if you wanna change it, i'd remove the chance of backpedaling in to the corners and being able to shoot down, it's too easy and you can't be repped out of position. Spawn mines gotta go

    Comment


    • #62
      Mythril's argument makes a lot of sense to me. What I see at issue here is that the low star cap this season has shown that some people are practically unplayable at their current star rating, even if that rating's a 7.5. A higher star cap and better ratings would do a lot more to fix this than moving to a tier system.

      A slot system will potentially make low-rated high-performers even more broken. As it stands now, finding a low-star player who performs well can make your lineup but it's not a requirement. If you require teams to field a 7*, you're in a way also requiring them to field a 10* to maximize value.

      Why doesn't raising the star cap fix all the issues you all are bringing up?


      The most interesting idea I've seen so far ITT is flattening the flagroom bar to eliminate defensive-cram corners. It's drastic but could be fun.

      I'm still also really confused about how we're going to run a TWL and a TWDT at the same time without people getting burnt out but maybe that's just me. It'd be cool if we could get a kind of framework of what the Ops are planning on in terms of schedule though.
      Vehicle> ?help Will the division's be decided as well today?
      Message has been sent to online moderators
      2:BLeeN> veh yes
      (Overstrand)>no
      2:Vehicle> (Overstrand)>no
      2:BLeeN> ok then no
      :Overstrand:2:Bleen> veh yes
      (Overstrand)>oh...then yes

      Comment


      • #63
        bunch of cram layouts to facilitate discussion:











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        • #64
          this fix is probably worth doing too:

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Vehicle View Post
            I'm still also really confused about how we're going to run a TWL and a TWDT at the same time without people getting burnt out but maybe that's just me. It'd be cool if we could get a kind of framework of what the Ops are planning on in terms of schedule though.
            i don't know what the final schedule will be, but this was the initial proposal:



            many players play 9 games during playoffs, so it's the same amount. plus, you can sit out a few games if you're a 3-leaguer. most players only play one or two leagues, which would be 3 to 6 games, so i don't see any issues.

            Originally posted by rab
            *basing map proposals*
            turban, IMO, had the best map idea, where the fundamental structure of the base remains identical so you don't have to learn new burst patterns or drastically alter how underspidering works, and it busts the cram wide open:



            this keeps FR battles the same, and provides 2 side entrances. there's a small chance underspiders camping entrance firing through the side entrances could be mildly annoying, but that already happens through the 2 under campshots ala Acidbomber so I don't see it being important.

            we have 6 weeks between the end of this TWDT and the start of fall leagues, so I think we should put this into ?go TWBD and test it out and see how it fares.

            I believe Turban's final version also adds the current door system to it, so it shuts when both terrs in FR creating a replica of the original map. Doors would also allow you to make the side entrances even wider if the current version ends up being too tight.
            Last edited by ogron; 07-29-2022, 02:28 PM.
            ogron> pawner threatened to cut racka open and hang him by his entrails, then borrowed him 2 min later and pmed him "lets win this <3"
            Mythril> LOL
            RaCka> LOOOL
            Iron Survivor> lool
            beam> pawner is still more mentally stable than best

            Comment


            • #66
              Is there any specific reason you suggest changing the left-side one-block gap to not be an L?

              Also, this map you're suggesting will have other effects too, specifically making it way easier for terrs to switch sides via under. I'm not totally sure that's a good thing.
              Vehicle> ?help Will the division's be decided as well today?
              Message has been sent to online moderators
              2:BLeeN> veh yes
              (Overstrand)>no
              2:Vehicle> (Overstrand)>no
              2:BLeeN> ok then no
              :Overstrand:2:Bleen> veh yes
              (Overstrand)>oh...then yes

              Comment


              • #67
                This would be an alternate version with less potential to be a menace as under spider with symmetrical sides to eliminate left vs right advantage in flag room battles. It is also harder to enter/escape a 2-tile entrance with tight angle such as that one.

                I prefer right-side variant of base. It is more balanced and also gives more strength to terrier, but not sure if players are prepared to move to a more even battleground. Claushouse also had an interesting idea where you would have sides open with doors and have them close once both teams are in.

                Click image for larger version  Name:	dc269a468d.png Views:	0 Size:	17.8 KB ID:	1360357

                Comment


                • #68
                  This would be my favorite version of turban's idea, and addresses Vehicles concerns above:



                  Use the current door system BIET implemented, except on turban's map. so once both terrs are in the FR, the map returns to it's original format and all is well in the world, while reducing cram in TWDT.

                  TWL would simply use the standard map.
                  ogron> pawner threatened to cut racka open and hang him by his entrails, then borrowed him 2 min later and pmed him "lets win this <3"
                  Mythril> LOL
                  RaCka> LOOOL
                  Iron Survivor> lool
                  beam> pawner is still more mentally stable than best

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Personally I'm of two minds to be honest. As much as cram is a nuisance it's also a reward for flagroom battles. Is what you're proposing actually defendable? Are we really ready to nerf the cram out of existence?

                    I don't know the answers. I like your maps as well as brethal's idea of flattening the bar.

                    I think regardless of what is decided we should put it up for a poll: Regular TWL map for DT or alternate map, especially if the change is drastic.
                    Vehicle> ?help Will the division's be decided as well today?
                    Message has been sent to online moderators
                    2:BLeeN> veh yes
                    (Overstrand)>no
                    2:Vehicle> (Overstrand)>no
                    2:BLeeN> ok then no
                    :Overstrand:2:Bleen> veh yes
                    (Overstrand)>oh...then yes

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      In b4 a terr gets warped back to spawn by the closing door
                      Season 12 champion TWLD / TWLJ
                      Season 18 champion TWLJ / TWLB
                      Season 19 champion TWLB (C)

                      Season 6 champion TWDT-J TWDT-B (C)
                      Season 10 champion TWDT-J (C)
                      Season 11 champion TWDT-B (C)
                      Season 13 champion TWDT-B (C)
                      Season 17 TRIPLE CROWN TWDT (C)

                      The winningest TWDT captain of all time

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        It would be way easier to just change base games from 15 to 5 minutes. I could go as low as 3.

                        Also, are we going to change rock positions on ld maps in case lasenza is playing?
                        TWDTJ & TWDTB FINALIST 2019

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Im not a fan of extra entrances, changes cram completely. teks are pretty cool 🔥🔥 and wanna still reward them. Oggie have you got any data on average cram times with new twdt map?

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            I'm trying to avoid overreacting to the cram changes. I feel like one of the core problems with new cram is players sitting in the corner where they can't be repped out of position but are still somewhat protected from enemy fire. A very simple change to avoid auto-corner camping: Click image for larger version

Name:	cram.png
Views:	118
Size:	43.7 KB
ID:	1360370

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              I don't think we should be afraid of changes in basing, especially if we're just focusing on applying them to one league.

                              I've always wondered how basing would fare in a round based system similar to CS GO and other games. Basically this:
                              • Closing flagroom of completely. See https://gyazo.com/b1fc3d6f0cf102b7554b712dcda3a175 (cramming situations can happen in this example)
                              • Each round begins the same way a normal basing game does, spawns in ears.
                              • Win conditions of a round are met by either holding flag for x amount of time or eliminate all enemy ships within the flagroom.
                              • An enemy terr that dies cannot reenter the flagroom (in most cases, getting a TD will give your team the round via elimination).
                              • Once a win condition is met, round ends with a brief pause and a new round begins.
                              • Let's say, each game is ten rounds. So if a team wins 6 rounds, game is over. If each team wins 5 rounds, an extra round is played to decide the winner (best of 3 would probably be cool too)


                              cripple> i wish i can eat bursts, tank 6 bullets and tank another 4 bullets after attaching like sarger does - TWLB24 Finals

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                sarger I like it but I think that'd be something wholly different than basing.

                                Is basing just about the flagroom?

                                I personally don't think so and can't help but think it's flattening the gameplay to make it all about flagroom. Tube mines and breaking cram are annoying, but part of being a good Terr is being able to get up the tube fast.

                                ​​​​​​It's kind of my same argument for not adding side entrances off the main one to flagroom. A likely result will just be whirlpool flagroom battles that rely less on team pressure and more on dive-bursts.

                                Maybe that's the direction we should go. It would definitely be faster paced. I just would personally be less interested.

                                I honestly like WillBys idea but it looks like I'm in the minority on the types of changes that should be made.
                                Last edited by Vehicle; 07-29-2022, 08:13 PM.
                                Vehicle> ?help Will the division's be decided as well today?
                                Message has been sent to online moderators
                                2:BLeeN> veh yes
                                (Overstrand)>no
                                2:Vehicle> (Overstrand)>no
                                2:BLeeN> ok then no
                                :Overstrand:2:Bleen> veh yes
                                (Overstrand)>oh...then yes

                                Comment

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