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  • Week 3 overview

    We are now pass midway for group stage for twdt. With another exciting weekend behind us, it is time to check how the teams did and what are their chances moving forward.
    Now to games:

    Ambush
    3rd week rating: perfect (5 wins from 5)
    How is it going overall: now clearly among the top tier 4 teams in league


    Ambush made some trades last week and by the look of it, they have really worked out. First game vs strong dice team started as bad as it could. Turban was late so ambush started with 41 vps, rojo had no idea res cap was back and struggled with that, so in early stages ambush was dominated and at some point was already -12. After turban appeared and subbed rojo, slowly but surely ambush started making a comeback. Key KOs on struggling flew and zizzo gave ambush 5v4 and 5v3, they nicely took advantage of and saiyan KOd the last remaining dice players for important win. Same lineup saiyan/turban/hulk/bluff/lee started against terrorist team as well, which was more dominant game with terrorist never really having a chance. Turban again mvp with 14-9 but rest of team also very solid.
    In jav, ambush had easy schedule with struggling cloud and prime as opponents. Both games were dominated with Kim fitting nicely to new team and turban once again having great games mvping in both matches.
    In base, ambush faced thunder, who was also missing some key players. Besides some laps of concentration, team with lee/rojo under turban/rucci/saiyan over and joe/cig smoke sharking and azuline terring had no real issues ending with perfect weekend.

    Tasks to work on: With playoff spots pretty secure, praccing teamwork maybe testing some alternative lineups and players could be on table. Jav has been weakness for ambush, those 2 weekend wins are nice, but they played against 41.5 vp cloud and prime who has only won 1 game of jav entire season, so time will tell if the new setup with Kim involved is true contender for title.

    Pure Luck
    2nd week rating: looking very strong in everything (5 wins from 6)
    How is it going overall: Top of table and not looking back


    Tiny also gave chance to new traded players with unlimited and whispus both getting start in their first wb game against legendary. Unlimited did fine, but whispus pretty much choked with 3-10 and being first one out. That did not matter though, as vys was on fire with 21-6, backed up with dak going also 17-8 and pure luck got a comfortable win. In second game though, pure luck got one of those rare defeats as they were totally not prepared for the creature show that they witnessed. Banks replacing whispus did not better at all and rest of team also couldnt handle creature turning on the aimbot (20 kills from 66 shots is crazy).
    In jav, tiny/vys/rampage trio is really looking great out there. Both games vs first terrorist and second vs cloud were one-sided affairs, in both games tiny also used different lineups showing how versatile this team really is with scuzzy/whispus playing girst game and banks/rekashi second game.
    In base, pure luck is only team still going undefeated out of all leagues. First game vs struggling prime should not be even mentioned and second game vs Thunder gave them no worries as well. They got 2 games left vs ambush and power, lets see if they continue their winning run.


    Tasks to work on: tiny has been doing well leading the team, comfortable lead on table, alot of players getting chances to play. Also trades have been spot on, so i would not change a thing.

    Power
    3rd
    week rating: Okeyish (3 wins from 5)
    How is it going overall: above playoff line, but alot of work still to be done.


    It was somewhat improvement for power, but it had also to do with schedule as both base games were vs bottom table teams.
    Things are not looking good for power in wb. They are only team yet to win a single game. This also did not change last weekend with game vs legendary. This time trying stayon in lineup with bacon returning, result was still pretty clear loss, even though they were 5v4 at some point of game. Looking at data it looks like they were just outbulleted with legendary shooting over 100 more.
    First jav game also sucked with bacon/stayon choking out early. Okyo also poor with 4-10. He did improve massively though for second game against Thunder, mvping with 15-9, solid support from rest of team as well.
    In base Power dismantled 2 weakest base teams in cloud and prime without any issues with zid/dare taking sharking role.

    Tasks to work on: things are not really looking that good for power and it feels weaker compared to previous zid draft league teams. They are still one of the strongest teams in jav and could be title contenders there if they make it to playoffs, in base there are questions about that second shark role besides zid and in wb they are just godawful. Still they got 2 point advantage now over legendary, who has their own issues, so for now they look to be holding on to their spot.

    Legendary
    3rd week rating: Still weak (2 wins from 5)

    How is to going overall: Currently not making it to playoffs

    Legendary did that somewhat weird trade on lockdown last week and now ended up playing with max 42vps in wb. In first game vs pure luck they had no chance whatsoever with entire team going negative. In second game vs power they reshuffled a bit and started with lineup jabra/hosack/bombed/animeboy/raazi and that did better. Animeboy mvpd with hosack also supporting nicely.
    Legendary is by far the worst jav team out there, 0 wins so far and game vs dice also showed why. Entire team went negative with temu 5-10, jabra 4-10. This lineup just is not clicking in any way.
    Base games were historic, as finally, after losing again clearly to terrorist, they got their first win of season against cloud. But yea, looking at legendary now, they are only expected to win games in wb and in jav/base, they can only win if opponent is missing half their lineup. And they need to pick this up if they even want to dream about playoffs. Not sure how to solve it.

    Tasks to work on: Difficult to suggest anything, sometimes players may be good but they just dont work well together. Sprackle as shark could help the lopsided setup for base team, but for jav, maybe some big trade could turn things around?

    Dice
    3rd week rating: doing okey (3 wins from 5)

    How is it going overall: Among the top tier, looking forward for playoffs

    Creature was the main player for dice for this weekend. Early signs already in lost wb game vs ambush, where he went 14-10, in second game vs pure luck, he really came alive going 20-7. Flew was clearly one of the players wanting to forget the weekend with 5-10 and 3-6 games in wb.
    In jav Dice had 2 easy games with both power and legendary giving up without much of fight. Creature and cape carried their team, but everyone really doing their job. With 5 wins, dice is currently the best team in jav and title favorite.
    In base dice gave debut for 6.5* shark cow lives matter. It was an interesting experiment as it gave them opportunity to test very solid spider lineup of drose/banzi/zizzo/sword/creature. IN the end though, terrorist was stronger team by far, so time will tell if we see cow lives in another game this season.

    Tasks to work on: very solid in duelling leagues, so keep creature showing up like this. IN base, they have taken the points where they could, but they just seem to be missing something to really fight top teams.

    Terrorist
    3rd week rating: keeping it stable (3 wins from 6)
    How is it going overall: you never know what terrorist team shows up against you, sometimes best ever, sometimes choking


    So to counter last weekend great performance in jav, this time terrorist decided to drop the ball there, losing both, but keeping strong performances in base and a rare win in wb.
    Burnt was star of the show for wb game vs thunder going 11-3 and getting 3 vital KOs in the game. So very solid start of weekend. For some reason they started with different lineup vs ambush with both new players ra/berzerk flopping hard.
    In jav they got first dismantled by pure luck and then again against power team. In the end, every team wants to win the league, so solid group games and making it to playoffs have no value if those clutch games you still lose. Work to be done there.
    In base though, terrorist keeps delivering and looks to be the main contender vs pure luck for title. This time they took out first legendary and then dice with cripple doing very solid debut as shark for this season.

    Tasks to work on: some questions to be addressed for that jav performance last weekend. Base looking solid, wb needs some unexpected heros to get some wins.

    Cloud
    3rd week rating: horrible (1 win from 6)
    How is it going overall: time to say goodbye?


    In the ultimate bottom dwellers match, cloud faced off with prime in wb game. Despite emotionally unstable renzi going 4-10 and being first one out, mythril had his best game of this league with inspired 20-7 performance, cz also very solid as 6.5 going 8-8 and cloud took hard, but deserved win. Renzi continued his bonkers weekend with being subbed out at 2-6 after 3 minutes against thunder, which resulted in cloud playing 2vp under. Add hellkite going 2-10 and myth really had no changes to change this outcome.
    In jav renzi completed his transformation to teenage girl with 4-10 after 7 mins against ambush and renziless but 40 vp cloud had no chances in second jav game against pure luck.
    Not much was also expected from base games with dutch baser continuing his role as terrier and hellkite having to shark. In first game vs power they got outkilled by almost 140!. In second game vs legendary, 100 took sharking role (to be said he did horribly). So another clear loss.

    Tasks to work on: Only way this team can have any chance is if all key people actually show up and dont go emo in games.

    PS! I AM SORRY RENZI, I NEVER WANTED TO HURT YOUR FEELINGS!

    Prime
    3rd week rating: horrible (1 win from 5)
    How is it going overall: would be even worse, but there are other struggling teams out there


    Prime had pretty good game vs cloud in wb, but just couldnt handle mythril doing his things. Sarger started his poor weekend with 1-5 before going subbed.
    In jav they had very good game vs thunder, who was missing some key players. Racka played well, as did sarger with solid support from rest of team. Second game vs ambush though was nightmare for sarger going 0-10 (with a tk!) and dwopple going 3-10. They really never got going.
    In base though, they are hopeless as looks like apt didnt even bother showing, so racka had to terr again without much success.

    Tasks to work on: feels like this team has given up, looking at that bizarre trade offer, although on paper, they can still make it as they have still 9 points up for grabs.

    Thunder
    3rd week rating: horrible (1 win from 5)
    How is it going overall: early season success still keeps them above the line, but last weekend was horrible.


    Thunder was missing some key players, mainly rainbow seeker, but also draft this weekend and drop in results was visible.
    First they lost to terrorist, not really strongest wb team out there, despite ease going mvp with 17-10. But low vp horrorshow (shaun 1-6, menel 2-4) and burnt having game of his life on other team gave them the narrow loss. They improved vs cloud with jamal going 16-4, supported by ease.
    In jav they had luckily only 1 game, as that performance vs prime was so bad they would have for sure lost also their other game. Mikkiz/ekko/shaun all going heavily negative.
    And in base, without rainbow, they just dont have the spiderpower to support, in both games they got heavily outgunned against first ambush and then pure luck.

    Tasks to work on: as weeks go by, they seem weaker and very heavily depend on rainbow seeker to give necessary support for ease. Rainbow can be also hit and miss, so Thunder performances are really unpredictable. FOr now they need to focus in securing that playoff spot, but this could be one of those low ranked teams really going far, especially in duelling leagues.

    So after another week we seem to be having 3 tiers:
    pure luck, ambush, terrorist and dice seem all comfy and thinking of playoffs already, power and thunder have had some bad luck with showups, but potentially still look like playoff teams and legendary/cloud/prime just are worse off and probably by now already demoralized and facing bad shows in upcoming weeks.

    Players of the week:
    WB: ease, vys, mythril, creature, turban
    Jav: turban, tiny, creature, cape,
    Base: saiyan, turban, rucci

    Best low stars:
    WB: ekko, lee, cz530
    Jav: omega red
    Base: tiny, cow lives matter, lee
    Last edited by LeeRomeno; 02-24-2025, 02:45 PM.

  • #2
    Thanks again for another amazing write-up!

    Comment


    • #3
      Can someone run a meta analysis on turnout this past weekend? Curious how many teams showed max * capacity or struggled to even show enough players to compete at all. Seems like league might have stretched out 1 or 2 teams too many. Bike sacrificed himself to play base so his team could vs. 8 v 8 but...regrets...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by bike View Post
        Can someone run a meta analysis on turnout this past weekend? Curious how many teams showed max * capacity or struggled to even show enough players to compete at all. Seems like league might have stretched out 1 or 2 teams too many. Bike sacrificed himself to play base so his team could vs. 8 v 8 but...regrets...
        i think for base 8 teams would have been optimal, but at the same time for jav/wb we could have been probably fine even with 10 teams.
        I think quality of team plays big part in people playing, if team is performing bad, quite a few people lose interest and this is not really related to how many teams are in league. For example we had 6 teams in last draft league in 24 and for vios team 2 last weekends (it was 5 week league) base team was not showing as they were so far behind. And for reference we had 20+ ppl per team then. This time we have 17-18, which is still more than the 8 team league we had in 23 fall (15-16 people). This time with 3 teams dropping out, unfortunately there seems to be also big gap between team quality, so more teams than usual 1-2 are affected.
        One way of fixing that is what turb suggested, give everyone pass to playoffs, but give top tier teams 1 game advantage for example, so maybe people would be motivated to play at least until playoffs.

        Comment


        • #5
          Solid meta analysis. Thanks Lee.

          Turban's idea also sounds solid and worth a little bit of retroactive application to this current season, which is very easy for me to say given my team's standing.
          Playoffs for all in abundance!!!
          And top 1 or 2 get a pass? or Top 4...whatevs.
          Also bottom 4 teams have to compete in other shady TW mini games like ?go bug

          Comment


          • #6
            i was out of country last weekend mb. but i think good solution is everyone goes to playoffs, yet the same imbalance will show. i been saying for 50 yrs lower the star limit on base games by more pts. u just have ppl who dont draft well enuf for base, valuing spids over sharks, or terr over spids. the only accurate star ratings and ratings that matter in base are for shark. u can put almost anyone in terr behind phenom sharks and good / above avg spids. the rating system for base* is also phenomenally bad, its like boomers and old ppl handed these ratings out. so it leads to ppl drafting based off nostalgia and numbers alone. u have spiders with higher* flagroom iq rated at 8 and 8.5 than spiders at 10 who are just good duelers but dont prioritize protecting terr or just making smarter moves. 2 many ppl drafting off heresay than watching a players CURRENT skillset and decision making. i mean same shit happens in irl sports. which is why no matter how much data there is, only a select few ppl in any given league can scout or coach well. u have to know what ur looking for and block out gossip about who is good and who is bad.

            lowering the star limit to something like 65 or even lower, is the best form of compensation. simply because it forces every team to have half average or below average players in base. even today ulll have 7 rated player who is much better than an opposing 7 player. because 1 7 player just has higher IQ despite their K/D. bcos again u have old ppl giving these ratings out.

            also kill the 6-10 rating system. pls use numbers efficiently cos it makes no sense rn.
            redo the rating system using MMR as the baseline for it. and keep it 1-3. we dont need these .5 integers cos none of u know how to use it well anyways.
            u got spiders at 10 being outplayed by 8s and sharks at 10 bombing their own team every 5 seconds. the hell is the pt of a 7.5. redo ratings, keep it 1,2,3.

            draft is the only good option left to keep competition alive in this zone & game. but every season in base its like 50%+ of the teams thats are just way behind the curve. with some exceptions. its like ur leaving ppl at 10 because they are grandfathered in. revamp ratings.
            Last edited by apt; 02-27-2025, 05:47 AM.
            1:Jerome> ON THE THIRD DAY GOD CREATED THE REMINGTON BOLT ACTION .33, AND SAW THAT IT WAS GOOD, AND ON THE FOURTH DAY HE USED IT TO KILL DINOSAURS AND HOMOSEXUALS

            Juice

            Comment


            • #7
              ++++

              if u rly want to fix base

              just remove salary cap from games

              but have a salary cap on roster.

              its what they do in svs, and just about everyone gets playing time and every season is pretty competitive.
              the only thing holding competition back is when ppl dont show cos obv ppl are 40+ and have families.

              if we didnt have salary cap in base, league would be much more intense, cos every game u have 2-3 important assets in spec while azn_john760020 is in game shooting at a wall vs a guy who bases every wednesday
              1:Jerome> ON THE THIRD DAY GOD CREATED THE REMINGTON BOLT ACTION .33, AND SAW THAT IT WAS GOOD, AND ON THE FOURTH DAY HE USED IT TO KILL DINOSAURS AND HOMOSEXUALS

              Juice

              Comment


              • #8
                apt Lowering cap for basing is 100% wrong and the opposite of progress. We can’t have rating inflation while simultaneously lowering the cap.

                The cap was made too low but probably also in part having too many teams for base.

                Im not sure if Ekko just hasn’t been showing but I’m assuming he’s not able to fit into the lineup. We shouldn’t have a system/cap that benches people like Ekko, TJ, Ra, etc.

                Also seeing the issue with Ambush not playing their top players without having to put a bozo like Pawner in spider.

                This is not meant to be a diss but ph should probably be 8* or 8.5* if he were to play again. Lots of rust on his ship.
                In game alias: mvp

                twdt-b 2017 finalist
                twlb 2020 and 2023 champ cheerleader
                twdt-b 2020 and 2021 champ

                Comment


                • #9
                  Probably would require a bit more administrative work and work from the caps,
                  but I think the best way to have maximum quality competition in all the leagues and max fun
                  is individual league signups / drafting.
                  and no star cap.
                  max players. max talent. max fun.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bike View Post
                    Probably would require a bit more administrative work and work from the caps,
                    but I think the best way to have maximum quality competition in all the leagues and max fun
                    is individual league signups / drafting.
                    and no star cap.
                    max players. max talent. max fun.
                    yes thats def the best way for max competition.
                    the thing is draft with starallows weaker players, playing time.

                    that's the only real caveat.

                    but i would not be opposed to just allowing a couple weaker players to grab one or two of the cap positions.
                    looking at the standings for basing at least, it's not as bad as previous seasons, only 3 teams out of total contention.

                    but i think it's probable that without a star restriction you'd probably have a more even keel alignment on basing standings, maybe one real low team at 1-2 wins by this point.

                    i think having a star limit for total roster so you still have to draft strategically is a good outcome, and allowing games to be without limits.
                    the issue still stands on the stars per players tho, it's completely subjective and honestly it's completely wrong and bad.

                    we've seen time and time again how wrong it is.

                    you'll have a season where jackie runs circles in terr around everyone else, because of superior sharking and just solid spider chemistry.
                    and another season where ogron barely exits with 2-3 wins because of the opposite.

                    but watching both seasons of these players raw, it just looks like theyre a good terr or bad terr. e1 pretends how a missed rep, a missed bullets, a ram, just compounds and compounds over a game and a season.

                    just kill star limit for basing games. u have vets like racka and mythril and ease who are strugglin to win games in basing when they're all good players and caps.
                    i've played maybe like 4-5 seasons of this, to some degree since the pandemic and playing on Ease's team was the best experience i had as far as game time choices, decisions and ability
                    to play himself and carry the load. and u look at this season and he should have way more wins.

                    there is no strength right now this late in the stage, to test a person's ability to draft well and move around whether or not people's IRL interferes with their ability to show.

                    i think people running the league have done a great job saving the zone. but we can still do better i think.
                    1:Jerome> ON THE THIRD DAY GOD CREATED THE REMINGTON BOLT ACTION .33, AND SAW THAT IT WAS GOOD, AND ON THE FOURTH DAY HE USED IT TO KILL DINOSAURS AND HOMOSEXUALS

                    Juice

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Also, basing should probably have ship-individual ratings. So that when you are forced to play a 10* spider in shark or terr where they are only 8* you can get a more balanced team. This would help deal with no-show or weeks where some key player is MIA. It sucks for teams having to play a 10* out of position and lose 2* in the process.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Single league draft (or at least wb/jav + base draft) .
                        3 hour play expectation on a Sunday from everyone signed for the league is kinda nuts.
                        ACTUALLY THROWBACK loL remember back in the 2000s when caps would coordinate with each other to schedule the match time for TWL each week? legendary stuff. And then each vs. battle would have a hype trash talk column. oh man take me back.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          svs draft has flex scheduling. captains can agree on a different game time/date if they want. saves teams from no-showing or getting stomped because key players aren't able to make it.
                          I agree.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Captain Lonestar View Post
                            Also, basing should probably have ship-individual ratings. So that when you are forced to play a 10* spider in shark or terr where they are only 8* you can get a more balanced team. This would help deal with no-show or weeks where some key player is MIA. It sucks for teams having to play a 10* out of position and lose 2* in the process.
                            yes this is definitely ideal.

                            iirc bringing it up in the past was met with that it was more data which added complexity to the bot and just keeping track.

                            but ur pt is also 100% spot on

                            ive said in the past countless times the only players that should be 9 star and above if we are keeping a universal number for all 3 ships,
                            are players that can play all 3 ships at an above average level.

                            otherwise, split up the ratings for basing.

                            cause then u move someone like joeses to just an 8 because shark is his only starting level ship, all of a sudden u have more room to have strong balanced games across the league.

                            but then u have hulk that can play shark and spid at a high level, so he can exist at 8.5. 9, 9.5, 10 starts to be a platform for all 3 ships, which becomes extremely rare to play at a high calibre across the board. someone like jamal could slide into a 9, if he got active in terr again, could eclipse to a 9.5, 10.

                            but how many jamals are there? not many. we handing out 10's like participation trophies when u cant slide a 10 shark to spider in an emergency situation, when that 10 shark plays like 6.5 spid and vice versa.
                            Last edited by apt; 03-01-2025, 06:45 PM.
                            1:Jerome> ON THE THIRD DAY GOD CREATED THE REMINGTON BOLT ACTION .33, AND SAW THAT IT WAS GOOD, AND ON THE FOURTH DAY HE USED IT TO KILL DINOSAURS AND HOMOSEXUALS

                            Juice

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I did this shit when I started playing SVS last year, because as much as they do some things right, a lot of league things are still broken. They looked at me like I was stupid and alas old 42 year old men who behave like Reddit moderators, refuse to use simple logic to fix simple things. At the end of the day, LLM's always tend to reflect what I've been saying all along. Because logic trumps emotion:


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                              1:Jerome> ON THE THIRD DAY GOD CREATED THE REMINGTON BOLT ACTION .33, AND SAW THAT IT WAS GOOD, AND ON THE FOURTH DAY HE USED IT TO KILL DINOSAURS AND HOMOSEXUALS

                              Juice

                              Comment

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