Top 100 Basers of All-Time

[kess]

Why isnt my boy Cripple a 100 skill baser? looking at the ratings, in most cases u are just counting player's best ship and crip is imo the best and bigger spider this zone has seen.

First time im seeing this list i think, think some ppl are a bit overrated, others underrated, but its a solid list. Like you said, its harder to compare the original great basers to later ones. The zone was much more active, winning lb wasnt as simple as joining the stacked team and have a free ride to the finals. you actually had 5/6 teams who could win and multiple underdogs. Many of the best players ever never won or barely have any medals.

[ogron]

hello top 46 baser and top 13 shark here

reminiscing about the time i was traded up straight up for "rasaq" and got so offended that i made twdtb 2015 my personal revenge highlight reel

good list, thanks for putting the work into it and even trying to quantify some of the nuances of high level basing

big PH!

log in bud, we miss you.

sheet updated for TWDT-B 2020

[the_paul]

hello top 46 baser and top 13 shark here

reminiscing about the time i was traded up straight up for "rasaq" and got so offended that i made twdtb 2015 my personal revenge highlight reel

good list, thanks for putting the work into it and even trying to quantify some of the nuances of high level basing

Sweater was better

[Zeebu]

hello top 46 baser and top 13 shark here

reminiscing about the time i was traded up straight up for "rasaq" and got so offended that i made twdtb 2015 my personal revenge highlight reel

good list, thanks for putting the work into it and even trying to quantify some of the nuances of high level basing

nimp stop trying to be ph

[PH]

hello top 46 baser and top 13 shark here

reminiscing about the time i was traded up straight up for "rasaq" and got so offended that i made twdtb 2015 my personal revenge highlight reel

good list, thanks for putting the work into it and even trying to quantify some of the nuances of high level basing

[ogron]

Added TWLB Semi-Finals teams to the sheet thanks to Qan and Turban's work mining the old TWL database. We now have ever game played between 2003-2013 (including every TWD game.)

Credit given to every player who lost a Semi-Final in a season with 8+ teams in TWLB, so Seasons 6 to 20.

For the two seasons that had a double bracket (S19 and S20), I included the team that lost the Loser's Final, which is the main Semi-Final in that format.

Semi-Finals teams are shaded light purple on the sheet.



Also added a bunch of players from Mambo, BasingCrew, whiterabbits, and Elusive to the sheet.

[ogron]

At Poseidon's request, I dug up and added the 4 TWBL seasons I could find to the list, with Cripples, Wildfire, Disoblige and -Final- as winners.

I've also added 7 World Cup seasons won by USA West, Canada, Benelux, Benelux, Benelux, Canada, and Canada to the list, along with the 2018 Basing Cup.

I added a Cup section to house them, color-coded Green.

Also added the latest 2 TWDT-B seasons, won by Haze and Spider.

[ogron]

Pretty cool sheet. Obviously a perfect rating system is impossible. Did you ever think about putting less weight on the subjective portion? It seems damn near impossible to differentiate by 1% between some of the players like you have done.

afghan

The subjective portion has deceptively little impact, because there is a strong correlation between good players and winning.

Good players get recruited by good squads and play together and win. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Here is a sheet with the 'Rank' column on the far left excluding any subjective rating, only looking at achievements. The 'Last' column is the previous rank with the subjective portion. The 'Change' column indicates the difference in ranking after removing the subjective portion.

The Top 34 players are virtually unchanged, all within 0 to 5 ranks difference.

So case closed, we should do it without subjective input, right?

I think that would be a huge mistake.

1) Extreme cases

Glavitik is one of the best spiders to ever play the game, and repeatedly almost won TWLB. Zizu was amazing to watch in his prime in terr. There are a lot of really talented players who almost won, but fell short.

Without subjective input, these guys would get absolutely destroyed in ranking. Glav would fall from #28 to #50 in spider.

2) Co-Variance

The best spider and fifth best spider may play on the same team their entire lives, and have the exact same achievements.

If Trasher and Zhou play on Penetrate every season, they will have the same amount of success. Trasher is one of the best players of all-time, and Zhou was captain and added himself to lines because he was captain, then camped the under bar and streamed all game.

Now, their TWDT-B records would provide some separation, but Veloce didn't play TWDT, so his record would be identical to Zhou's.

Without a subjective weight, Veloce and Zhou would have the same overall rank.

Now, that's an unbelievably rare scenario, with Zhou being captain and LF paying Mega89 to sub halfway into Round 2 of a TWLB Finals blowout S16 are the only cases I can think of, but it is worth mentioning. 99% of players who win are starting because they earned the spot and outplayed others on the roster, and that roster was filled by players who outplayed others to join.

3) Miscellaneous

Finally, there are players who had short primes and could have obviously won more like Royst, and a small number of elite players like Mikkiz who don't play on the best team they could each season, and a subjective rating helps put them closer to where they should be.

Subjective weights just smooth things out. If Trasher and I have the same amount of titles, you want a little boost to Trasher to try to keep him ahead since he's a better baser. The 70% weight seems like a lot, but the difference between someone rated 85 and 90 is only 3.5 rating. A single TWLB title will almost close that gap.

Ezo has a 90 skill rating and is outside the Top 100 with 0 titles and 0 finals appearances, and multiple players with a 90 skill rating are inside the Top 20. The Subjective weights end up having surprisingly little effect in general, but they help fringe cases like Glavitik a lot.

[afghan]

Pretty cool sheet. Obviously a perfect rating system is impossible. Did you ever think about putting less weight on the subjective portion? It seems damn near impossible to differentiate by 1% between some of the players like you have done.

[Rab]

Any starting point? Know which website it would have been on, or what year?

[ogron]

correction to ogrons original post:

there was TWLB and TWLJ by at least Season 4, around beginning of 2001. P sure this was first season of either. I remember because we, Wildfire, won it. It doesnt get counted as a medal for some reason even though it was the same format as TWLB would be the next season (most points wins). they redesigned the website and switched the letters around, but it was the same league - It was still called TWL. There is a discrepancy here in that WB Seasons 1-4 get counted as part of TWL(D) history even though it was technically "TW(D)L", but Jav and Base S4 are erased from history books.

as shown:

http://web.archive.org/web/200104051...renchwars.org/

Interesting.

I mean there's clearly an issue of validity and recognition if TWLD S1-S4 are counted, and that is not.

There was a lot of debate at the time about whether TWLB S5 even should count as a medal, since there was no playoffs. The TWLB Cup was the playoffs for that season.

Disoblige won, but for some reason it wasn't counted in terms of getting a medal.

Dabram



You can see, Bram doesn't have a TWLB medal, even though he should have. Light having the most wins in the regular season is worth less than Disoblige winning the playoffs between those same teams, IMO.

I really am not a fan of the way medals have been done (I have 3 TWLJ medals for some reason, despite the fact I didn't earn them.)

If you can find me rosters or boxscores, I can credit you and the players from Wildfire and whoever else with the same TWL Championship points as Light -- half credit -- for finishing 1st in the regular season, but not winning a playoff.

Not sure whether I would add another column and call it S4, not really because it was not credited or called TWLB, but mostly because my sheet is running out of room.

If you can get me that info, though, that would be great, as I would make use of it.

Rab maybe you can help track those down? You're the god of finding boxscores and stats for me

[ogron]

Guess the parameters couldnt handle the lvl of my skills on your list.


lul

I've added you to the list, talked to some old basers from the era, and added the squads you were on to the best of my ability.

For future old basers coming here, just a note: It is a Top 100 list, not a Every Baser to Ever Play list. I've added as many names as possible, but if you haven't played in the last 10 years, never started a final in TWLB or TWDT-B, and never were near the top of a TWLB All-Star voting list on forums 10-20 years ago, you name may have slipped through the net, even if you were a good baser.

I'm sorry if you felt disrespected being left off, that was absolutely not my intention.

Every TWLB player who played x amount of games (on the TWL stats page) from s12-s22 should be on the list. You played 1 TWLB game in that span so you didn't make the cutoff.

Some idiot accidentally destroyed all the stats from s1-s11, so active players such as yourself between 2002-2007 who should have been auto-added based on games played in TWLB, weren't.

That means I have to add players from that era manually, usually through TWLB Finals or Semi-Finals boxscores, All-Star voting, and Best Spider/Terr/Shark forum threads from the era.

[NL>TERMINATOR]

Guess the parameters couldnt handle the lvl of my skills on your list.


lul

[Poseidon]

correction to ogrons original post:

there was TWLB and TWLJ by at least Season 4, around beginning of 2001. P sure this was first season of either. I remember because we, Wildfire, won it. It doesnt get counted as a medal for some reason even though it was the same format as TWLB would be the next season (most points wins). they redesigned the website and switched the letters around, but it was the same league - It was still called TWL. There is a discrepancy here in that WB Seasons 1-4 get counted as part of TWL(D) history even though it was technically "TW(D)L", but Jav and Base S4 are erased from history books.

as shown:

http://web.archive.org/web/200104051...renchwars.org/

[ogron]

updated to reflect stayon's incoherent ramblings and current TWDT-B season.