Updating Hall of Fame

[Jessup]

The starting line for Heavy in TWLD, which I founded with Slangin Rock and Apok when we merged Xerotek and Chibbs, was:

Apok/claushouse/Annoyance/Slangin Rock/Jaa in Season 8.

You were a benching waterboy when I started in TWLD in 2005, you were a benching waterboy when I quit for 5 years after that, and you're a benching waterboy now.

Stop derailing every thread with your bullshit you 0 title pubber. You were bad in every era.

ROFL !! What a liar you are claushouse. You were in NO WAY a founder of Heavy while on the other hand I was. Apok and I came up with the name together as we both played in metal bands at the time we both were on Xerotek together. . We were talking about it on xerotek chat and I said to him hey wouldn't Heavy would be a cool name? He was like ya man. This was BEFORE the merge of chibbs. Apok dug some and found someone who owned the name. When the merge of Chibbs and Xerotek happened in a private arena with the original members who came from Chibbs and xerotek, Apok asked if people were into Heavy as the name which he had just acquired. we ALL said YES!!! and that is how Heavy was formed. You were not even there dude. Annoyance, Slangin Rock. Apok , Jessup, Kento, and like 6 others were though. You are a completely deluded egomaniac man. Heavy was formed on October 15th 2004 and you were no where to be seen for 2 months because you were in a mental hospital at the time we started it. Sorry but that is the real truth and if you were a decent person I would never bring this truth up about you up but since you are relentless towards me I will give you some medicine back.

[Exalt]

You're so fueled by bitterness you can't even bother with basic fact-checking.

5 seconds on TWD would tell you I was on Heavy for two straight years.

Most of the scores from back then are lost to time, but someone posted Round 6 scores on forums:



I don't consider myself a great WB or anything, but you're just spewing easily disprovable lies.

I have no doubt the absolute peak of TWLD was S1-S12 or whatever, but your obsession with trying to devalue everything past 2008 just to attack me at the of expense of 100s of great players who played afterwards is insulting to the Fierce dynasty from S14-S20 and players like Apok, Mythril, Racka, Lasenza, Riverside, etc. who won all their titles then.

Moreover, TWLD does not = TWLB. TWLB's peak was closer to S12-S20, it wasn't even in TWL until S5, didn't switch to a timed race until S7, had random damage until S10, and didn't lose the blocks on each side of the cram bar until S11 (creating underspidering), and shrap was random until S15 (adding another layer to terring and sharking).

Stop turning every thread into a novel about me.

I said if TW Elites is in, then the precedent is set to include every single squad that won. The HoF was so early in the game that including every squad that ever won meant it was still a very small number of squads, and my suggestion that perhaps including every single champion was too much is definitely relevant to the discussion.

I didn't say TW Elites shouldn't be in, only that new standards might be warranted given how many seasons there have been. I'm engaging in the discussion, you're trying to use every single thread across multiple forums to yell at me. Clearly I've struck a nerve.

Okay, I'm going to drop the insults and actually discuss things with you, so I'll ignore the barbs and stay on topic.

I never said there weren't great players after the peak of the game, but to discredit those past players, because they didn't stick around for 20 years to earn more titles than they did, is just bad manners imo. It can be argued that the peak of the game was during the time frame that a lot of those older players played, and the game started going downhill after many of them quit. I think that matters, because if we define a HoF player as simply the amount of titles they've won, we literally exclude all of the old greats for them simply quitting, while other players did not. If they only were around for 8 seasons, then they only had a chance to win 8 titles. A player around for 20 seasons has a chance to win 20, and it can be argued that later titles were easier due to less overall competition. Maybe the game evolved over time into something different than before, but if you transported the greats from the past into today's game, what would happen? That's a fair question to ask, is it not?

As for TWLB, I'm nowhere near qualified to discuss a lot of issues as far as rule changes and such, because I've never been a baser, but I can discuss great individual players we all remember from the past. If you put Pallies, Disoblige, Anti-Scrub, -F-, or even Light and their players from the early TWLB/Basing Cup seasons into today's game, are you really saying they wouldn't adapt and be just as good?

As for TW Elites, they're in because they won the first ever TWL at a time when the population was ridiculously high. It can be argued their single win back then was a more difficult accomplishment than any LD win from recent seasons. Besides that, great players who won just a single TWLD title back during the early TWL seasons should absolutely be a part of the HoF, because they were the best at a time when the game was at it's peak.

You arguing that more titles in recent years at the game's lowpoint means more than winning even one time during the game's absolute most competitive time, then you argue the equivalent of Bill Russell in the NBA being better than Michael Jordan, because Bill Russell won the most titles in NBA history. He played against a bunch of unathletic white guys who smoked and drank every night, and the league was a shadow of it's 1990's self, but he still won a ton of titles. Michael Jordan only won 6 during one of the greatest eras in NBA history. He must be a worse player than BIll Russell, right? Bill Russell's 1960's Celtics would've demolished the 1990's Chicago Bulls based on your argument. If you want to go even deeper, Hakeem Olajuwan only won 2 titles in his career, which is the exact same amount Luke Walton won, so Luke Walton must be as good as Hakeem Olajuwon, right? Your argument means either both should be in the HoF due to titles, or Hakeem Olajuwon should not be in the HoF at all, because he didn't win 8 like Bill Russell.

See what I'm getting at here? In my mind, it's common sense to say that titles when the total game's population is an extremely small fraction of it's former self are inherently less valuable than titles won when the game was at it's peak in population and competition. I'd also argue that longevity shouldn't be rewarded by default, because some players may have played 20 seasons of TWL as a bencher and won 10 titles, but would they ever have won those titles against (let alone have been better than) some great players/squads from the past, if those players never quit? I'd say it's unlikely and at least debatable, especially if they weren't considered great players until after all of those players were long gone.

If you need examples, let's look at one of the greatest WBs to play this game from the past: Sika. How many LD titles did Sika win, one? Regardless, Sika was always known to be one of the best WBs to ever play this game, and I'd say a prime Sika would have been a great matchup for any WB in recent times who won 10+ LD titles due to never quitting. Give me a team consisting of prime Reaver, Raspi, Sika, Demonfaze, etc vs a team of any of those 10+ LD title players, and I bet those older players win. They make the matchup extremely close if not. I don't know about LJ and LB, but I'm fairly confident the same could be said about teams/players from those leagues as well.

Maybe you disagree, but you really have to ask yourself, how many twl teams from modern seasons would win titles against twl teams from the past during the game's peak? Maybe they do win, but I'm not so sure about that. If you say modern teams would lose, then you have to admit modern titles won after all those older players quit are won against weaker competition. Maybe the very top teams in today's game would still be good back then, but they'd not have such easy gimmes during the twl season if they played back during peak years. Its safe then to conclude that not every player that won titles in modern seasons would have won as many had the competition remained as high, and many players might not have won at all due to being replaced on their roster by better players from the past.

[ronaldinho]

Also, as Turban said, I think the most prestigious captains have their place on this, as I think the best contributors have also their place on this, whatever their level on the field is.

The number of final played or won has nothing to do with this, this is not a Hall of Champions. For exemple Sika, that I literaly never saw, but heard a lot, have a poor amount of medals so probably a poor amout of finals played, but I know he deserve highly his place on this. It need no standard nor criteria, just to be famous enough in this game (and for good reasons). I also think it would be better to add a very limited amount of players/teams on the list, like for exemple 5 players and 2 team. More we add, less it is prestigious to be a Hall of Famers.

[ronaldinho]

If you need examples, let's look at one of the greatest WBs to play this game from the past: Sika. How many LD titles did Sika win, one? Regardless, Sika was always known to be one of the best WBs to ever play this game, and I'd say a prime Sika would have been a great matchup for any WB in recent times who won 10+ LD titles due to never quitting. Give me a team consisting of prime Reaver, Raspi, Sika, Demonfaze, etc vs a team of any of those 10+ LD title players, and I bet those older players win. I don't know about LJ and LB, but I'm fairly confident the same could be said about them as well.

I post my thing before reading your post lol

[Jessup]

I agree with hell. HOF should be about influence more than stats and games played. Paladen caps like Jebass, KJW and Jessup should be involved as we have led Paladen to be the oldest active squad in Subspace/Continuum which has been integral to activity and introducing new playersn to the game. (We always were inclusive squad anyone could join who had desire) Paladen for sure should be represented as the major influence on Trench Wars it has had.

[ronaldinho]

I'm sorry to both Jessup and Ogron but I doubt that you two deserve to be on this, except if we add a considerable amount of players/teams.

Here is what players/teams I would induct if I was the one in charge of this, based on what I said on other posts :

Apok
Cape
Dreamwin
Megaman89
Qan
Turban
Zidane

Fierce
Pandora

However I started to play less than 3 years ago so my knowledges are mediocre, and nobody should ever add himseld into this, that's why I keep saying the Hall of Famers should do it.

[Exalt]

I agree with hell. HOF should be about influence more than stats and games played. Paladen caps like Jebass, KJW and Jessup should be involved as we have led Paladen to be the oldest active squad in Subspace/Continuum which has been integral to activity and introducing new playersn to the game. (We always were inclusive squad anyone could join who had desire) Paladen for sure should be represented as the major influence on Trench Wars it has had.

I agree with this too. I dont see why Paladen couldn't be added as an influential squad, seeing as so many players have played for them at one time or another.

[Jessup]

Hell no offense but you have no clue who should be in HOF since you just don't have the history here. Guys like Matorian, D0ck, Yomama, Apok shud be there too. So many unsung heros. D0ck def shud be there for example. He made the bots lol.

[Jessup]

BobR should be there too seeing as he made Trench Wars heheh

[Exalt]

I'm sorry to both Jessup and Ogron but I doubt that you two deserve to be on this, except if we add a considerable amount of players/teams.

Here is what players/teams I would induct if I was the one in charge of this, based on what I said on other posts :

Apok
Cape
Dreamwin
Megaman89
Qan
Turban
Zidane

Fierce
Pandora

However I started to play less than 3 years ago so my knowledges are mediocre, and nobody should ever add himseld into this, that's why I keep saying the Hall of Famers should do it.

I cant remember exactly whose in it already or not, so if they're already in you can skip that name, but in no particular order (off the top of my head, so it's not all-inclusive) I'd add to your list:

Racka, Mythril, Lasenza, Reaver, Deez Nuts, Kim, Amputate, Mattey, Vys

I could also see players like Tiny, Jamal, etc get added too.

I'd say some players deserve specific categories as influencers as well. Some players are already in the HoF, but also belong in this category too such as Ease, Epinephrine, 2dragons, etc. I'd add Izor, Jebass, Megaman89, Apok, Brookus, Da1andonly, etc to this list.

As for squads, I'd add Quicksand, Sweet, Grapevine, Pandora, Penetrate, Disoblige, Pallies, Pirates, Sk8, Paladen, etc.

I'm forgetting a ton of players and squads,but this was off the top of my head.

[Turban]

it's not meant to be a Hall of Fame of Trench Wars in general, but more so for Trench Wars Leagues Jessup

[ogron]

ROFL !! What a liar you are claushouse. You were in NO WAY a founder of Heavy while on the other hand I was. Apok and I came up with the name together as we both played in metal bands at the time we both were on Xerotek together. . We were talking about it on xerotek chat and I said to him hey wouldn't Heavy would be a cool name? He was like ya man. This was BEFORE the merge of chibbs. Apok dug some and found someone who owned the name. When the merge of Chibbs and Xerotek happened in a private arena with the original members who came from Chibbs and xerotek, Apok asked if people were into Heavy as the name which he had just acquired. we ALL said YES!!! and that is how Heavy was formed. You were not even there dude. Annoyance, Slangin Rock. Apok , Jessup, Kento, and like 6 others were though. You are a completely deluded egomaniac man. Heavy was formed on October 15th 2004 and you were no where to be seen for 2 months because you were in a mental hospital at the time we started it. Sorry but that is the real truth and if you were a decent person I would never bring this truth up about you up but since you are relentless towards me I will give you some medicine back.

You have serious brain damage.

I played as King Blunt for the first few months before using my main name. I convinced Apok and Slangin Rock to merge so we could better compete in TWLD, which I started in (you were deep on the bench.)



I also ran our forums the first year of the squad, and created the original map, which I still have in my emails:



I'm one of the longest tenured players on Heavy, the notion I would make that up is beyond absurd.



Oh, and I created the Heavy banner:



Honestly, you need help making these wild accusations and following me into every forum thread. I think you should go see a therapist.

[Jessup]

You were late to join claus , get help dude and face the facts. You did NOT found Heavy with us. I started some TWL games too but was too busy touring with my band having a life to play this silly game much back then.

[ogron]

You're a pathological liar and conspiracy theorist.

I was there day one as King Blunt, then Week 1 of TWLD on my main name. I ran the squad's forum from Day 1, made the banners for everyone, created the original map, and started in WB and Jav.

Stop lying.

[Jessup]

Says the guy who claims he was a full on starter in TWL for Heavy. You were not a full on starter for Heavy and never were. The real truth is both you and I were interchanged as backups and did about the same in stats. Me and Apok came up with the damn name for the squad and you trying to take credit is a joke. I was there and know u are full of it.