Ideas for next TWL

[Exalt]

Rofl, no I am not ashamed of bringing it up and it makes alot of sense. Why would anyone who wants to play multiple leagues join a squad that only plays one or worse, then plays in 3 formats, but is completely rubbish there.
Secondly, its 2021, I can guarantee that the average age of players is 10 years older than it was 10 years ago. You cannot simply think that everyone can guarantee their dedication to this league for 3 months without missing a weekend. There are for sure players, who can definitely show for half of games, but are not active enough to warrant a roster spot. For a game, which has been slowly dying, giving the players opportunity to play when they can, should be the logical strategy.
Nowhere have I said that B roster should be without limits.
I just do not see any cons in this, apart from maybe its difficult to program with bots? Not sure.

Why would they join a 1 league team if they want to play multiple? Well, maybe because they are not playing in ANY leagues at all, and I'm sure Wolf would be in multiple leagues if those non-TWL backups on Rapid who apparently are active would leave and join Wolf, rather than hoping to change every rule imaginable so they can be in TWL without doing any of the work themselves. Even Violence confirmed there were over 20+ members on his roster who are active and willing to participate in TWL, but they chose not to join other squads when given the opportunity after they were not given a TWL roster spot for rapid. If they didn't like the captains on squads like Wolf, they could have just created a new squad with all the random people who didn't make Rapid's roster (the requirements were near 0), but they actively chose not to. I will never support those who refuse to do the work themselves being given any sort of leeway in terms of TWL or any other league. Sit in spec and watch or quit if that's what they want to do, but if they make that choice from the start, they should be held to it. People who willingly chose not to participate in TWL by refusing to join specific TWL squads just so they can stay on a 'better' TWL squad to be backup-backups should NOT be allowed into TWL at all. They're a cancer on the game for refusing to improve competition.

[uprise]

Why would they join a 1 league team if they want to play multiple? Well, maybe because they are not playing in ANY leagues at all, and I'm sure Wolf would be in multiple leagues if those non-TWL backups on Rapid who apparently are active would leave and join Wolf, rather than hoping to change every rule imaginable so they can be in TWL without doing any of the work themselves. Even Violence confirmed there were over 20+ members on his roster who are active and willing to participate in TWL, but they chose not to join other squads when given the opportunity after they were not given a TWL roster spot for rapid. If they didn't like the captains on squads like Wolf, they could have just created a new squad with all the random people who didn't make Rapid's roster (the requirements were near 0), but they actively chose not to. I will never support those who refuse to do the work themselves being given any sort of leeway in terms of TWL or any other league. Sit in spec and watch or quit if that's what they want to do, but if they make that choice from the start, they should be held to it. People who willingly chose not to participate in TWL by refusing to join specific TWL squads just so they can stay on a 'better' TWL squad to be backup-backups should NOT be allowed into TWL at all. They're a cancer on the game for refusing to improve competition.

Being one of the backup-backups that also happens to be a starter if I decide to show up: You couldnt be more wrong in your thought process. Its not about not wanting to join a different squad. It is about it not being worth spending every sunday evening (for euros) for 3 months on SS. Most of us are 30+ with family and quite frankly have better things to do. We like to login when possible and would not be in a roster at all cause we cant guarantee 100% showup rate.

Imagine creating a TWL squad out of those ~7 "active" people to compete in 1 league. Half the matches would be forfeits cause people dont show up.

[Exalt]

Being one of the backup-backups that also happens to be a starter if I decide to show up: You couldnt be more wrong in your thought process. Its not about not wanting to join a different squad. It is about it not being worth spending every sunday evening (for euros) for 3 months on SS. Most of us are 30+ with family and quite frankly have better things to do. We like to login when possible and would not be in a roster at all cause we cant guarantee 100% showup rate.

Imagine creating a TWL squad out of those ~7 "active" people to compete in 1 league. Half the matches would be forfeits cause people dont show up.

Literally all of us are 30+ with family and better things to do. Git gud at life

[viop11]

exilt i would invite u 2 read wut i wrote. nowhere did i say ripitish has 20+ actif playirs that cud/wants 2 form anothir twl squidrin. we at one point considered vsink a 2nd ripitish squidrin when we had enuf ppl, but many playirs left to vs 4 othir squidrins. we no longer haf 20+ actif playirs, we haf less than 20 ppl who are actif and can/want to vs twl. we haf 18 max without countink who r actif and wud considir vsink twl. not enough for a 2nd squidrin

furthirmore, no1 wishis 2 vs 4 wilf no offince. imigine wearink the ripitish jersey n then havink 2 vs alonkside a pack of stonirmin wilf. the only squid that cud b compiribil 2 ripitish in terms of tilint n lockir room gr8niss is shikkymin. i luf shikkymin n wish 2 b grintid entry sumtime

furthirmore, the reasin why the "b" rostir idea is so gud is becuz once theres a hard lock and no more teams cud b made, it still gifs sum fringe playirs, or ppl who cant commit to showing most weeks, a chance to vs if they do show up. u r only allowed to insirt 1 or 2 ppl from the b rostir per mitch, its a gr8 idea that wud allow many diffirint types of playirs who rnt quite gud enough for the 1st team or cant show efery week so r left off the 1st team a chince 2 vs! i luf shikkymin

[afghan]

I think twl is essentially fine the way it is and shouldn’t be drastically changed.

the clear middle ground between twdt and twl has already been done before and can be used as a bridge league.

The basing cup ogron organized was very successful and provides a draft with no caps. The only change needed would be more than just 4 teams.

You could run something simultaneously for duelers whether it’s the same format for wb/jav or a 2v2 league or elim league.

[LeeRomeno]

Why would they join a 1 league team if they want to play multiple? Well, maybe because they are not playing in ANY leagues at all, and I'm sure Wolf would be in multiple leagues if those non-TWL backups on Rapid who apparently are active would leave and join Wolf, rather than hoping to change every rule imaginable so they can be in TWL without doing any of the work themselves. Even Violence confirmed there were over 20+ members on his roster who are active and willing to participate in TWL, but they chose not to join other squads when given the opportunity after they were not given a TWL roster spot for rapid. If they didn't like the captains on squads like Wolf, they could have just created a new squad with all the random people who didn't make Rapid's roster (the requirements were near 0), but they actively chose not to. I will never support those who refuse to do the work themselves being given any sort of leeway in terms of TWL or any other league. Sit in spec and watch or quit if that's what they want to do, but if they make that choice from the start, they should be held to it. People who willingly chose not to participate in TWL by refusing to join specific TWL squads just so they can stay on a 'better' TWL squad to be backup-backups should NOT be allowed into TWL at all. They're a cancer on the game for refusing to improve competition.

If you think like that, fine, but as much as I encountered that problem in EG, i have also noticed it in TW. TWL with very strict roster rules makes players take a pretty heavy committment, There are alot of people out there, who do not want to take that. They should not be punished for it, league is not life. At the same time those people can still bring competition level up and can be valuable helpers if they do show. They will never join some random squad, nor will anyone make a squad out of people who show 50% of times as then the team would forfeit half of their matches.
Thats why having a "inactive" or "sub" roster sounds like a reasonable idea.

[viop11]

its an incridibil idea lee, ne1 who wud oppose something like that which would allow more ppl a chince to play with 0 downside is just beink nigitif 4 no reasin

[make tw great again]

How does this make any sense at all? If these people want to play TWL, they can join/create new squads. Rapid having 30+ people on it's roster is ridiculous in and of itself when there are only like 120 active players in this game to begin with. Trying to have multiple Rapid-type rosters in 2021 and essentially killing all competition by allowing every scrub in existence the ability to join a full roster and be a 'backup backup' is beyond ridiculous. It's pure fucking stupidity, and you should be ashamed of yourself for even bringing it up. All of those scrub backups could join Wolf right now and find a roster spot, so why aren't they doing that? If they want to play TWL, that's their avenue. Join a squad and actually help it, rather than benching with people better than yourself.

Exalt, I think you may be missing one key component. Perhaps a lot of those players just aren't active and have zero desire to create a new squad and participate. Instead of completely doing away with those people, with this type of proposal, they may find some time or motivation to show up once in a while and play.

TWL wins because you get more participants and possibly rekindle new interest upon participating.

This is a very old game on its last legs. We shouldn’t be in the business for making it harder on people to play.

[olde]

No derail

[Exalt]

You guys talked so much shit to my new players on Juice 50% of them haven't even logged on since last week....



And you nerd, ego, fgts are worried about TWL. For what the 30 players who are gonna log on now......

This game has been cringe as fk the last month its unreal....

Whose been talking shit about Juice players? I haven't seen it, although losing certainly makes people want to play less than winning does.

Besides that though, if 50% of them don't log in now, whose fault is that? Why recruit them to begin with knowing they were flakers? You could have just asked some of them if they intended to show up to at least a decent portion of Sunday TWL games. One day a week is not asking that much, but even if it is, what solution do you honestly think there is to it? Should this game cater to every single flake out there in the hopes that they will be less flakey by doing so? Look at Juice's roster and tell me some specific players in that group who don't log in now that you honestly expected to stay active when they weren't really active even in this game's heyday 20 years ago?

If you think the solution is to let 100 flakey people all join the same 2 squads like Lee is suggesting, and thus remove any and all possible competition so a bunch of people can possibly win while never even try to do anything themselves, then let the game die. You claimed you joined Juice to 'help' them out, yet are now bitching because the other players there are flakey, blaming everyone but those players for it. It seems to me that the people recruited were not the right ones if only a couple bother to show up to begin with.

Juice could have merged with Wolf or Creality or something and found active people, same thing as I said active benchers on Rapid could have done. ALL of those people could have created something new together, rather than bitching because they can't coast off of other people doing it for them. Choosing not to do so should not be rewarded. Multiple other squads either lost good players to the nerd squads right before TWL or didn't get top-tier recruits to make everything easier, but they're still showing up, practicing, and trying to get better to win with what they have. Only a specific few are crying about it saying they need every rule changed and all advantage possible given to them so that they too can compete, all because they don't want to put in the work. Didn't you literally rail against Ixador in another thread not long ago claiming that this was the proper way to do things? Why be hypocritical now?

[Exalt]

TWL wins because you get more participants and possibly rekindle new interest upon participating.

This is a very old game on its last legs. We shouldn’t be in the business for making it harder on people to play.

This is where we fundamentally disagree, because:

1. More participation only happens when more squads participate. People choosing to bench as a backup's backup rather than be a starter or 6th man on a new squad isn't participating.

2. There is literally nothing stopping people from playing TWL these days. The only requirement to play was 5 games in TWD with 3 active roster members. That's as low as it possibly can get. A group of pure pubbers could've made a squad and qualified within an hour if they chose to do so. Explain to me how that was too difficult for all these 'active' benchers to do? They couldn't look around, see which players are active and not on a roster, and said to themselves 'maybe we should get together and make a new team so we all participate"?

The truth is that this game dies because people don't have any drive to succeed on their own merits, and would rather coast off of someone else doing the work for them. With roster limits, people are not allowed to stack as easily as they used to, which requires many 'champions' to actually do something for those little medals on the twd page they never had to previously. Suddenly, they cry foul over it. Imagine that.

[olde]

Whose been talking shit about Juice players? I haven't seen it, although losing certainly makes people want to play less than winning does.

Besides that though, if 50% of them don't log in now, whose fault is that? Why recruit them to begin with knowing they were flakers? You could have just asked some of them if they intended to show up to at least a decent portion of Sunday TWL games. One day a week is not asking that much, but even if it is, what solution do you honestly think there is to it? Should this game cater to every single flake out there in the hopes that they will be less flakey by doing so? Look at Juice's roster and tell me some specific players in that group who don't log in now that you honestly expected to stay active when they weren't really active even in this game's heyday 20 years ago?

If you think the solution is to let 100 flakey people all join the same 2 squads like Lee is suggesting, and thus remove any and all possible competition so a bunch of people can possibly win while never even try to do anything themselves, then let the game die. You claimed you joined Juice to 'help' them out, yet are now bitching because the other players there are flakey, blaming everyone but those players for it. It seems to me that the people recruited were not the right ones if only a couple bother to show up to begin with.

Juice could have merged with Wolf or Creality or something and found active people, same thing as I said active benchers on Rapid could have done. ALL of those people could have created something new together, rather than bitching because they can't coast off of other people doing it for them. Choosing not to do so should not be rewarded. Multiple other squads either lost good players to the nerd squads right before TWL or didn't get top-tier recruits to make everything easier, but they're still showing up, practicing, and trying to get better to win with what they have. Only a specific few are crying about it saying they need every rule changed and all advantage possible given to them so that they too can compete, all because they don't want to put in the work. Didn't you literally rail against Ixador in another thread not long ago claiming that this was the proper way to do things? Why be hypocritical now?

What? The? Fuck? Are? You? Rambling on about, wolf is/was 5 crackheads who log on everyday for 10 years straight they just self implode every year....

Juice has a full roster with backups, we are not worried about twl forfeiting, and my post had nothing to do with that.... Half the players im talking about aren't on a twl roster. BUT next season maybe they would have been...

I'm pissed the community pushes out all the new players so the same 30 fgts can be borrowed over and over in twd and not allowing growth...

Old vets/new players like many others you don't see logging on anymore enjoyed the game, not the player base. Once they seen how toxic it was/is now they stopped logging on....

This is a small community player ran game, you can't act like a pile of shit and expect ppl to stay... Games are played for fun.

I've watched so many players who enjoyed the game, be ran off for no reason.... What you want them to do log on everyday to sit in spec? Guys won't even borrow them in Twd 90% of the time.....

My point is right when people start enjoying this game, they get ran off or realize how toxic tw really is. Then they find something better to with their free time, ultimately there is no growth, no emerging stars no more players capping squads....

Its like playing the NFL for 15 years and not drafting new players or coaches (captains). Just recycling the same players over and over again, intil there's noone left..

This is what is happening... So if you want more TWL and such id advise every squad start taking in players any chance they can get, help them improve and keep it fun... Let them twd. Let them fill like they are part of a team.... Allow growth

Look what APT did in the short time he has been back. If every squad did what he did this game would be twice as active and new stars rising....
Today's rusty vet, or today's noobie. Could be next seasons Mvp.

My idea for TWL is to allow playerbase growth, from the help of all the squads and their captains.

[make tw great again]

This is where we fundamentally disagree, because:

1. More participation only happens when more squads participate. People choosing to bench as a backup's backup rather than be a starter or 6th man on a new squad isn't participating.

2. There is literally nothing stopping people from playing TWL these days. The only requirement to play was 5 games in TWD with 3 active roster members. That's as low as it possibly can get. A group of pure pubbers could've made a squad and qualified within an hour if they chose to do so. Explain to me how that was too difficult for all these 'active' benchers to do? They couldn't look around, see which players are active and not on a roster, and said to themselves 'maybe we should get together and make a new team so we all participate"?

The truth is that this game dies because people don't have any drive to succeed on their own merits, and would rather coast off of someone else doing the work for them. With roster limits, people are not allowed to stack as easily as they used to, which requires many 'champions' to actually do something for those little medals on the twd page they never had to previously. Suddenly, they cry foul over it. Imagine that.

1.) I think we are not on the same page here. I was referring to players being impacted inadvertently that are more casual and inactive. They now cannot play when they have some free time in any given week. Case in point with Clark Kentaro. Old vet, but isn't very active. Since he learned how few roster spots were available, he opted out all together and didn’t want to hurt his team. Even a few weeks of old players like him playing are better than none. I’m sure I am missing several more.

2.) Yeah — that is a bit harder to quantify. I am glad it isn’t stopping you or some others. But let's be clear, everyone have different issues in their life that sometimes prevent them more than it use to. I have more empathy for those people because it's just the truth.

The game dies because it’s very old and a lot of players have families now and careers, preventing them to play as much as it use to. I think you may want to consider that, too.

[make tw great again]

What? The? Fuck? Are? You? Rambling on about, wolf is/was 5 crackheads who log on everyday for 10 years straight they just self implode every year....

Juice has a full roster with backups, we are not worried about twl forfeiting, and my post had nothing to do with that.... Half the players im talking about aren't on a twl roster. BUT next season maybe they would have been...

I'm pissed the community pushes out all the new players so the same 30 fgts can be borrowed over and over in twd and not allowing growth...

Old vets/new players like many others you don't see logging on anymore enjoyed the game, not the player base. Once they seen how toxic it was/is now they stopped logging on....

This is a small community player ran game, you can't act like a pile of shit and expect ppl to stay... Games are played for fun.

I've watched so many players who enjoyed the game, be ran off for no reason.... What you want them to do log on everyday to sit in spec? Guys won't even borrow them in Twd 90% of the time.....

My point is right when people start enjoying this game, they get ran off or realize how toxic tw really is. Then they find something better to with their free time, ultimately there is no growth, no emerging stars no more players capping squads....

Its like playing the NFL for 15 years and not drafting new players or coaches (captains). Just recycling the same players over and over again, intil there's noone left..

This is what is happening... So if you want more TWL and such id advise every squad start taking in players any chance they can get, help them improve and keep it fun... Let them twd. Let them fill like they are part of a team.... Allow growth

Look what APT did in the short time he has been back. If every squad did what he did this game would be twice as active and new stars rising....

Agreed. I don’t know why squads don’t borrow more new people in the arena. TWD is good simulation practice and everyone should get a chance. I can’t tell you how many times I see someone asking to be borrowed, who hasn’t played, yet the same recycled players who just played 10 games in a row get borrowed. Want to know the outcome? That player who keeps getting past over leaves the arena and eventually logs off. They easily could not sign on the next time.

Not a good look. I know in WBDUEL it gives out some disclaimer on who was benched the previous round. I’d like to see some prioritization mechanism allowing those benched players a chance to play first.

[Grasps]

What? The? Fuck? Are? You? Rambling on about, wolf is/was 5 crackheads who log on everyday for 10 years straight they just self implode every year....

As if I don't have it bad enough, I have twerps like you kicking me while am down. What a big fucking man you are.

Fuck you Olde.

If anyone was prone to crack use and or addiction in this game, it's probably you or your mother and that's ironic when you call out me and my friends. And self imploding? Every squad you get on implodes or flat out sucks. Only time your squad won LD was when you were on bench-you weren't even a starter Stevie Wonder. You've done nothing for this game but bitch and moan and pick on people you don't like.

You're no better than the people you just shit on you hypocrite.

You're pissed about running people off? You're running me off homie. You and this garbage community of egotistical cowards. Bunch of pussies at the end of the day that only want to stack and lame their way to victory while bringing down players along the way to keep them down and out. Picking on guys like me that worked hard to try to create a team for TWL so you guys could have more competition just to make yourselves feel better.

And competition. LOL Reminds me..Thanks for the roster limit increase too!

Did wonders for Wolf and allowed squads to poach last remaining members I have to be remotely competitive away so now we have 1 decent player left and can safely predict every game Wolf has from here on is a Loss just like ya'll wanted. Real awesome stuff fam!

Also, I really like that loyalty in this game is non-existent and that most of you fucks have no souls and or mental disorder where you only care about yourself and have zero disregard for others feelings. That's actually like 99.9% this game I realize.

No idea why I am even sticking around anymore. You guys are all mostly fucking gay except for the stand up staffers, volunteers and a handful of people I've known over the years. Not enough for me to want to stick around unfortunately as much as those people deserve it and deserve the support/help from people like me who can give it.

Olde just reminding me why this game is so fucking stupid on levels and have had about as much as I can stand. The constant belittling, benching every DT season, not going to TWL with Wolf & being cut from Strays roster last year so inferior players can line over me is too much. Like jesus, pretty obvious to me am not wanted here. Not sure why I keep pushing and trying to show people I am a capable player. No one will even look or gives a shit at the end of the day.

I am annoying I heard so that must be it. Well you fucks won't need to worry about that much longer! Mans can't be annoying if he's no longer player your shitty game and that's about where am at.

I'll see if shit improves but doubt it. Backbones are a rare thing in this game and trying to find a player with one that is willing to help a small squad in TWL seems impossible right now so I won't hold my breath. Spineless fucks a plenty. RIP originality or genuineness or even generousness. Godddamn. Endrant.