Idea for new TWL Qualification system.

[Sumpson]

Think of the long term effects of it Sumpson. Eventually squads will stop disolving because of the stability they gain from being auto quilified, new squads won't be there to take over because they have no real way of getting into leagues through skill and competitiveness. The ability to actually play in TWL is taken out of the hands of the players and given to 16 or so caps. Addressing cheating by damaging and making the league stagnent isn't solving it, it's ignoring it.

I noticed I haven't mention anywhere before but ofcourse these re-qualifications should be the same as they are now. by having 50% of their league roster. If they don't have the 50% and worthly of a TWL position they would get voted back in by the other league squads anyway tho.
Getting into TWL by beating all easy squads in TWD aint a real way of getting in TWL eighter imo. You mention taken out of the hands? with this change it would be in the hands of the most dedicated trenchwars players. Meybe it would be a good idea to weight the opinion of a league squad wich has played more leagues then the other league squad stronger. If stagnent means having new squads in wich will dissolve midseason, I'd rather go for stagnant.

[Sufficient]

Stab, you forgot about the 50% returning rule when you gave the example of a squad recruiting 30 noobs.

If you take that into account, then it strengthens the idea of having everyone who qualified in this TWL be allowed to autoqualify for next season's TWL, assuming they keep half of their previous roster.

Edit: Sump beat me to it.

[Cyrus]

I like hellzno's idea alot, since it will get more activity into TWD. Though since not a single squad will be autoqualified, people will be even more scared to play lower ranked, competitive squad. Maybe there should be a average rating limit to enter twl, because it seems to work pretty well.

[Lag.Com]

See claushouse's idea. http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthread.php?t=16131

That kind of thing will help prevent this yearly TWL-qual garbage that most old players see and ignore. Obviously it's not the ONLY measure that needs taking; claushouse's system is more about matchfinding than qualifying. My own personal thoughts are that squads should have a certain points expected average per day, observe:

Some squad still on 1000 beats Dice, OMFG! New squad gets many points.
This squad plays a bunch of other new squads and wins... their points average per game goes down... eventually bot says "No, you must choose a more highly ranked opponent."

In short, I think that the points you would gain by winning the game should be more the factor in allowing/disallowing matches.

Just my 1.07033 pence.

[Sumpson]

Cyrus:

Like I said before, the squads wont be more lazy then active because they dont want to. The squad has more reason to focus on league and play hard squads instead for good practice.

Lag.com:

with my idea there would be no reason to dodge high ranked squads in TWD.

with my idea you will be able to play anyone in TWD wich gives more activity to TWD wich is an important factor. oh, right.. with that system you might be able to play anyone but games just don't count, the TWL squads would give credit to any win wich is worthly and would avoid some squads not playing others just because they want points after all.

[Faladir]

Its not a good idea to do that cos none new squad would make it.
Cos u need to extend in games and if u only played with the same teams every year it would be kinda boring.It would be like the football league in scotland: always celtic or rangers who win and it is found ( according to research) hte most boring league :fear:
Better leave it how it is :grin:

[Tibro]

the system works fine, so there is no need to change it.
i know what your saying, and it would be great if perhaps the top 4 squads in TWL get automattic entry to next year's TWL, but you have to face reality

this is SubSpace, squads come and go quicker than u can blink,

[Sumpson]

Its not a good idea to do that cos none new squad would make it.
Cos u need to extend in games and if u only played with the same teams every year it would be kinda boring.It would be like the football league in scotland: always celtic or rangers who win and it is found ( according to research) hte most boring league
Better leave it how it is

New squads would make the league because there are always squads wich dissolve (or haven't got 50% of their league roster anymore!) and wich need replacement. This system would help getting the right new squads into TWL. The old TWL squads wich are still alive and want to get into TWL are getting in it now, the only way wich turns this around is the stupid TWD system. this season, Sk8 didnt get in because of the TWD system everyone knows they are alright for TWLB and thus the rules had to be changed to get them in.
uhm.. football league eh?

the system works fine, so there is no need to change it.
i know what your saying, and it would be great if perhaps the top 4 squads in TWL get automattic entry to next year's TWL, but you have to face reality

this is SubSpace, squads come and go quicker than u can blink,

The system doesn't work fine since any squad can enter league by only playing the weakest squads in the TWD ladder and leave out better squads this way.

This is TrenchWars, there is no other zone with as much squads dissolving as in TrenchWars. This could use some help.

[Volny]

Why should be all TWL squads auto qualified for next season (in case that they have got some percentage of roster etc....)?

If they deserve TWLB they should be able to be very successfull in TWD either. Auto qulification only makes squads inactive and "lazy". And if they arent able to manage to qualify for TWL - there are others who do.

This idea would nearly "lock" TWLB with only very few spots left for newcomers. If this is the goal - why not fix TWD point qulifiaction system instead?

[Rab]

Invites: Yes I think it would be cool to auto-invite more squads to twl. We'd need to make sure we didn't invite squads who did badly in the previous season. Possibly invite everyone who won 2 or more games?

TWD Ladder: The problem we had was caused by the small differences in rating between squads. For example there was only 7 points difference between 5th and 9th places. Well we know we might get about 5 points for beating the worst squad, and about 35 for beating the best. So I propose we change the rating calculation, placing more weight on the difference between squads. Possibly giving around 200 points for beating a top squad, but only 10 for beating a crap one?

[Sumpson]

Why should be all TWL squads auto qualified for next season (in case that they have got some percentage of roster etc....)?

If they deserve TWLB they should be able to be very successfull in TWD either. Auto qulification only makes squads inactive and "lazy". And if they arent able to manage to qualify for TWL - there are others who do.

This idea would nearly "lock" TWLB with only very few spots left for newcomers. If this is the goal - why not fix TWD point qulifiaction system instead?

Why should they not? They are all getting requalified for the league when it wasn't for the stupid TWD system and if they are still alive. And if they are still alive, without belonging in TWL anymore it will probably be because they dont have 50% of their TWL roster anymore.

Squads who play twl squads in twd all the time and win half and loose half of their games belong in TWL. auto-qualifications doesn't make squads lazy, re-qualification does make some squads active while they dont even want to tho. I think you will mainly see any squad playing any squad by this system.

There is no real way to fix the TWD system by having squads who play easy squads all the time ranked above others because they play only TWL squads and win half of their games. and if there would be, it wouldn't be needed with this system because I am sure the TWL would pick the right squads to enter league.

I dont think it would lock the TWL, I do think the quality of it would increase tho.

Invites: Yes I think it would be cool to auto-invite more squads to twl. We'd need to make sure we didn't invite squads who did badly in the previous season. Possibly invite everyone who won 2 or more games?

TWD Ladder: The problem we had was caused by the small differences in rating between squads. For example there was only 7 points difference between 5th and 9th places. Well we know we might get about 5 points for beating the worst squad, and about 35 for beating the best. So I propose we change the rating calculation, placing more weight on the difference between squads. Possibly giving around 200 points for beating a top squad, but only 10 for beating a crap one?

The squads who did bad previous league would probably be the ones who will dissolve, and if they manage to still be alive with 50% of their league roster I think they desirve the TWL spot. Allowing squads wich won 2 or more games back in wouldn't be bad ofcourse but it's an extra rule wich people would have to get to know and an unnecessary one.

I think with having the TWL squads pick the new needed TWL squads is the best way of picking new squads. with this system the TWD Ops can remain lazy too

[Volny]

Invites: TWD Ladder: The problem we had was caused by the small differences in rating between squads. For example there was only 7 points difference between 5th and 9th places.....

Maybe if those top squads wouldnt be so afraid to play some games with each other? The are so close because they dont lose much points (they win over winma with no problem) And because they dont receive much (because beating 800 points winma makes u ~5 points)

I personally think that they are afraid because they want to get into TWL (yep, I am sherlock). But i dont think that auto-inviting 70+% would be good for game. I would rather like to modify TWD system
- maybe that win would gain you some points but lose wont cost u so much or something - or somehow (dont know how) use new AVE rating Perhaps total points= 0.5*(points) + 0.5*(AVE)
(all these are just ideas, I didnt think about it seriously so dont know what may that create)

But l really dont like "more invitations" idea
Lets look on TWDB ladder. currently
- 9 squads have got 100+ games
- 12 squads have got <40;100) games
- 8 squads have got <20;40) games
- and other 10 have got <10;20) - but they cant qualify becaus of 20 matches rule

(And on TWDD numbers are even a bit biger)

So it is at least 27 squads who like to BD. Some likes to BD but dont win much like NS,WinMa.
Still like 25 squads who can compete (somehow). So if cca 12 squad autoinvite for next season there will be 4 slots open for more than 10 squads. It doesnt sound that bad, but WHY old TWLmembers can rest on their thrones and others have to fight just to get in? why should ever be someone autoinvited? If you are so good why you cant beat someone who according to you doesnt deserve to get into TWL so easily? And before you say that TWD points base system is wrong (for qualifiaction certainly isnt the best, but not worst either) dont forget that u got into TWL thanks the very same system.

[Volny]

Addon

And auto inviting will create bigger and even better well-established squads - good way how to create static and slowly dying community

[Kolar]

We're not dumping the TWD system entirly, we need to fix it. Giving out Auto invites will do a few things:

1: It will make squads lazy since they don't have to run the course in TWD

2: It will make them less competitive (and about more then half of LB squads need to practice) since they won't practice as a team in TWD, and lets face it, if they don't have to do it... HUMANS WONT

3: Eventually we won't have squads leaving TWL, 16 stable squads will cover the league. If TWD is then seen as nothing important to actually competitive game play and skill then we will not have new players or squads to take over when the rare (won't happen for a year to 3 years) event of TWL squads disolving happens.

-New squads won't be able to compete in TWL since they can not get there by fairly showing that they can play in their division.

-new players won't be able to play since the 16 or so caps will look for only elite line ups. This will kill all new talent, for basing we need new players, new terrs ect.. this won't happen if non TWL players see that there's a chance in hell of getting in.

Auto invites for for squads who deserve the entry, if you want BC in talk to some TWL Ops, get you squad doing good in TWLB.

[Rab]

TWD Ladder: The problem we had was caused by the small differences in rating between squads. For example there was only 7 points difference between 5th and 9th places. Well we know we might get about 5 points for beating the worst squad, and about 35 for beating the best. So I propose we change the rating calculation, placing more weight on the difference between squads. Possibly giving around 200 points for beating a top squad, but only 10 for beating a crap one?

This increases the gaps between squads. So they'd have to beat 20 newb squads to equal a win from a good squad. Obviously the numbers can be changed, but this is part of the solution to the problem we face. It's not so much that squads want to aim for higher points, it's that if they plan to do some last minute qualifying 10 points wont be enough, they would have to take a risk.