Suggestion for a new rule next season

[Ephemeral]

"The league rules sometimes require subjective interpretation by league officials. As such, any squad that is invited to play in this league understands that all decisions are final. Please consider this carefully before deciding to participate in this league."

[Ammunative]

I think that adding this rule would be a good addition to the rulebook. On the other side of things, It would not quell the whining. In addition to the whining, its kinda hard to just say "well, we have no better reason to tell you why things blatently went against the rules, better luck next season."

[Izor]

"The league rules sometimes require subjective interpretation by league officials. As such, any squad that is invited to play in this league understands that all decisions are final. Please consider this carefully before deciding to participate in this league."

You say that because your squad is never going to get screwed over by questionable decisions. Either way so much spam lately

[Aerin]

Without rules and the enforcement of rules, there might as well be no league. Everything will just be chaotic. Thanks for the idiotic suggestion.

[Ephemeral]

Without rules and the enforcement of rules, there might as well be no league. Everything will just be chaotic. Thanks for the idiotic suggestion.

I didn't say or imply that there shouldn't be rules. I am suggesting putting in writing the obvious, which is 'shit happens' and that everyone is invited to be in the league. The rules do state that it is a privilege, not a right. It seems that many people are NOW standing up and bitching about the way the rules have been implmented. Wouldn’t it have carry more weight if people had stood up and asked for clarification or more detailed rules before the seaosn started?
But thanks for your opinion, it was very thoughtful.

[Izor]

..well yeah, but most people understood how to read the TWL rules. Every single appeal that has been filed this season pretty much thats caused any controversy has been backed up by the rules: whether or not the ops followed them was an entirely different story. The whining was enough in the quarter-finals for thme to do something, but not for ours or warpaths in the season.

[Epinephrine]

I believe this used to be in the preamble/mission statement part of the rules. I guess someone took it out. I think it's a good idea although I don't like the way you worded it.

[Kawrae]

yay new rules to brake!

[Aerin]

I didn't say or imply that there shouldn't be rules. I am suggesting putting in writing the obvious, which is 'shit happens' and that everyone is invited to be in the league. The rules do state that it is a privilege, not a right. It seems that many people are NOW standing up and bitching about the way the rules have been implmented. Wouldn’t it have carry more weight if people had stood up and asked for clarification or more detailed rules before the seaosn started?
But thanks for your opinion, it was very thoughtful.

Ya, I understood that you didn't actually say there shouldn't be any rules, but what you said about 'subjective interpretations' basically nullifies the rules. Therefore, if we were to use your suggestion and turn it into a rule, we may as well scrap everything altogether and rely on the TWL ops for a final answer on what's right and what's wrong; and I'll bet you a nickel that TWL will crumble because of it.

[Troll King]

Aren't rules open to subjective interpretations in other areas? Such as the strike zone in baseball? Or offsides calls in soccer? And that's just in sports. You can find even more examples in the legal system. If those examples are too far an analogy from TW for you, look at how teamkills are handled. Subjective interpretations of rules happen in all fields.

[Zingy]

Aren't rules open to subjective interpretations in other areas? Such as the strike zone in baseball? Or offsides calls in soccer? And that's just in sports. You can find even more examples in the legal system. If those examples are too far an analogy from TW for you, look at how teamkills are handled. Subjective interpretations of rules happen in all fields.

As soon as rules become "subjective" they really aren't rules anymore because there are no strict guidlines. The dictionary says that rules are "a prescribed guide for conduct or action". If rules become subjective, they are no longer "prescribed" (chosen ahead of time) anymore. Just my opinion, like most things this is definitely open to interpretation.

Let's take the baseball example: if the ball is outside of the strike zone, it's outside of the strike zone. There's really little subjectivity to it (especially now where it's computerized, you can even interactively see where the balls hit inside the strike-zone on the MLB website).

Subjectivity eliminates a lot of the legitimacy of the rules particularly because it varies from one person to another. Your host of a TWL game might think X is not good, but another host would not have a problem with it. So why should one team be penalized for just getting the wrong host? Those are the kinds of problems that get created when the rules are no longer black & white.

[Kolar]

As soon as rules become "subjective" they really aren't rules anymore because there are no strict guidlines. The dictionary says that rules are "a prescribed guide for conduct or action". If rules become subjective, they are no longer "prescribed" (chosen ahead of time) anymore. Just my opinion, like most things this is definitely open to interpretation.

Let's take the baseball example: if the ball is outside of the strike zone, it's outside of the strike zone. There's really little subjectivity to it (especially now where it's computerized, you can even interactively see where the balls hit inside the strike-zone on the MLB website).

Subjectivity eliminates a lot of the legitimacy of the rules particularly because it varies from one person to another. Your host of a TWL game might think X is not good, but another host would not have a problem with it. So why should one team be penalized for just getting the wrong host? Those are the kinds of problems that get created when the rules are no longer black & white.

That's because any action taken by a host can be appealed to a TWL Op who can then make a final decision on it. Hosts have a strict guideline to follow and a mandate to run the games as long as they possible can. What that means is even if the host makes a bad call or decides to run the game when the bots die you have the chance to have a TWL Op review it. When signing up you agreed to accept their final decision on all matters. TWL Ops will look at the rules and how they apply to the situation, all you're gonna get is an educated call on the matter. That's all you get with rules, laws, structure.

[Zingy]

if the host makes a bad call or decides to run the game when the bots die you have the chance to have a TWL Op review it.

So how is that different from how things are now?
(without the subjectivity clause)

Edit: Maybe I misinterpreted Ephemeral's suggestion for the new rule. The way he wrote it, it sounded like it was doing away with the appeal process because it mentions that "all decisions are final". A clause at the beginning of the rules saying that all squads agree to abide by the rules by joining TWL could work, but by adding pharses like "all decisions are final" without clarifying what decisions it is referring to (in-game decisions or appeal decisions? it doesn't specifiy) could leave loopholes for squads.

[Kolar]

So how is that different from how things are now?
(without the subjectivity clause)

I actually haven't followed the events of the past week so I don't know. I say leave it to Neth and PL in email. Too much spam on this forum already.

Edit: No I believe the idea he was trying to get across was that the TWL Ops are not going to give you an 100%, clear, unbias decision 100% of the time (no one can) but when you accept the invitation you must accept their final decision once you appeal an action taken during a game. This is already the way TWL works. Eph like me and a lot of other people feel that a majority of squads entering into TWL do not know this or believe this is the league they signed up for.

[Troll King]

Do you even watch baseball? A strike from one umpire may not necessarily be a strike for another. Some are known for having small strike zones, others are known for calling high strikes. The rules are laid out, but the umpires still have to make the calls subjectively. Even when they make the wrong calls, they won't change their original calls. It has always been like that in baseball and it hasn't threatened the "legitimacy of the rules" there.