Suggestion for a new rule next season

[Zingy]

Even when they make the wrong calls, they won't change their original calls. It has always been like that in baseball and it hasn't threatened the "legitimacy of the rules" there.

Let me give you an example: In football when a referee makes a call which the opposing team does not think is fair, the team can request a review to take place where the big-boss has the option of reversing the call.

Just because in baseball they don't reverse calls, does it make it right?

A wrong call, is a wrong call, is a wrong call... is a wrong call :fear:
No matter how you say it!

[Troll King]

But it's still part of the game. Plus in football, there are some plays you cannot challenge, even if you know the ref made a mistake. Say a player fumbled the ball and the defence picks it up and runs it back for a touchdown. If the ref incorrectly thought the player was down and blew the play dead before the fumble, the other team can't challenge the call. Also: teams only have a limited number that they can use. They can't challenge every time the refs make mistakes. Things like that happen and they're part of the game.

Besides, the point was that you claimed that subjective interpretations will ruin the point of having rules and threaten the integrity of the game. I've just given you several examples of other competitions where that has not happened. I don't know how you expect to have a set of rules that are always cut and dry and will eliminate all human errors. That just doesn't happen anywhere; can you think of a system involving people where it has?.

[Zingy]

I've just given you several examples of other competitions where that has not happened. I don't know how you expect to have a set of rules that are always cut and dry and will eliminate all human errors. That just doesn't happen anywhere; can you think of a system involving people where it has?.

How would you feel if a ref makes an incorrect fumble call that leads to a touchdown which alters the game? A touchdown that would never have occured had it not been a real fumble? Especially imagine if it was a big game, maybe even the superbowl!

I understand what you are talking about, but just because the subjectivity hasn't "ruined" these other games, doesn't mean we should adopt their stance.

We have nothing to lose by having "cut and dry" rules.

[Troll King]

The problem is that you can't have cut and dried rules that will cover every conceivable eventuality. Ephemeral's suggestion isn't a free ticket to let staff do what they want when they want; it's a simple admission that sometimes things have to be left to pure human judgement and sometimes you get your way, sometimes you don't. That's reality. That's life.

Besides, are you seriously arguing that you feel TWL should hold itself to a higher standard than pretty much every professional and amateur sports league, not to mention the legal system? Each of them put judgement calls into the hands of their officials and they throw their support behind them and their decisions. That's what's missing from TWL as evident in all the petty arguing that comes up every season. Sure, every now and then, mistakes are made, and sometimes corrected. But for the most part, they stick behind their officials. If coaches and players and front office staff whined and complained the way some TWL squads have, they'd be fined and suspended several times over. If people said the same thing about a judge that some people here recently said about Kim and Epinephrine, they'd be jailed for contempt of court. There's a huge lack of respect for the officials and staff in TWL, compared to the support that other leagues and systems give to theirs. I don't get why there's this expectation for indisputable yes-or-no binary perfection for TWL.

[Zingy]

The problem is that you can't have cut and dried rules that will cover every conceivable eventuality. Ephemeral's suggestion isn't a free ticket to let staff do what they want when they want; it's a simple admission that sometimes things have to be left to pure human judgement and sometimes you get your way, sometimes you don't. That's reality. That's life.

I think the current rules do cover most eventualitys.

And i'm not disagreeing with you in regards to an admission that sometimes things go wrong. But I do believe that there should always be an appeal process anyways (from your post I was getting the feeling that you are against the concept of appeals).

Should we hold ourselves higher than how national sports teams operate? If we can do so without much extra effort, then I don't see the problem. Not doing so would be taking the easy way out.

[Ephemeral]

TK is exactly right. Of course the rules should be 'cut and dry' as possible, but there is no way in the world that anyone is going to write or read a 750 page rule book.
I am the first to say that the TW rules should be written in a way that reduces subjectiveness. I have previously posted that ideally staffers should NOT have to be 'making calls' during matches. But the fact is, just as TK points out, it is impossible to have rules that cover every situation.
The other problem is that no matter how much effort someone puts into writing very detailed rules, people will still seek to exploit any loop-holes. For a real life example, look at most tax 'rules'. They did not start out being hundreds of pages long. PEOPLE (tax payers) drove them to be more complex every year because they have high motivation to try to find loop-holes. Year after year, each loop-hole was closed with more rules and more complexity to tax forms.

I am also dismayed to see people make such obvious self-serving, after-the-fact, whining about the rules of an online game when:
- they are doing nothing to contribute
- they were invited to play in this league
Look at the number of threads and posts in this forum about appeal decisions. No one stood up and made these posts BEFORE the season. If these issues are so important, why did no one use the large amount of time before the season finally started to raise these issues. Everyone knew about the appeal process, everyone knew that the league staffers would make decisions, everyone knew that league staffer would make mistakes, everyone knew league staffers belonged to and played on squads, everyone knew that issues like lag and buggy BOTS would be an issue.
But everyone accepted these things when they accepted the invitation to play. And even now, everyone has the choice of not playing in this league again. They also have a choice of stepping up and trying to help make things better next year. In all of these threads and posts, has anyone volunteered to write new rules or help next season?

No, people don't want to work. They want to take advantage of other people's work and just bitch about it.

[kthx]

Alot of these squads have been playing all season to prepare for TWL, and don't really expect to get newbed by rules in TWL by staff who doesn't even have to follow the rules supposedly. That is why everyone is complaining, get your story straight. And as for your whole "you are invited into playing this twl season" go read your old news . Dock> TWL is here and its for the players.

TWL was made for the players, not so the staffers can host, so once again get your story straight before posting such unenlightening threads.

[Ephemeral]

Alot of these squads have been playing all season to prepare for TWL, and don't really expect to get newbed by rules in TWL by staff who doesn't even have to follow the rules supposedly. That is why everyone is complaining, get your story straight. And as for your whole "you are invited into playing this twl season" go read your old news . Dock> TWL is here and its for the players.

TWL was made for the players, not so the staffers can host, so once again get your story straight before posting such unenlightening threads.

And you had no idea who the staff was at the beginning of the season? And you had no idea that they might make incorrect or poor decisions? And you call others noobs?
I love the inconsideration being shown here. You were invited. What I read was "TWL is a privilege, not a right". Which part of that do you not understand? But I bet you are the type of person who gets invited to a party at someone's house and then whines about the type of beer they are serving. Using your logic, you have a right to whine since you spent your time preparing for a party.

Let me be the first to invite you to consider another party or even holding a party yourself.

If the majority of people think the league was so poorly managed this year, the obvious thing to do is not support it next time around. The league will either then fold or new people will run it. I do not see the value of endless whining.

[genocidal]

Why bother responding to Wark and Izor anymore? All they ever do is whine. Do they expect staff to give them their preferred time and "screw" Sk8? Or do they expect staff to "screw" Squad!! and give them the playoff spot just because they think they are good?

All these whiners treat these situations like there is a clear answer - to placate them. Can't you idiots see that it's not a clear-cut issue and that people don't actually "have it in for you." Sure when you whine nobody gives two shits because you're such faggots and nobody likes you but that doesn't mean everyone wants to "screw you." I doubt anybody cares about you enough to do that.

[Epinephrine]

I am also dismayed to see people make such obvious self-serving, after-the-fact, whining about the rules of an online game when:
- they are doing nothing to contribute
- they were invited to play in this league
Look at the number of threads and posts in this forum about appeal decisions. No one stood up and made these posts BEFORE the season. If these issues are so important, why did no one use the large amount of time before the season finally started to raise these issues. Everyone knew about the appeal process, everyone knew that the league staffers would make decisions, everyone knew that league staffer would make mistakes, everyone knew league staffers belonged to and played on squads, everyone knew that issues like lag and buggy BOTS would be an issue.
But everyone accepted these things when they accepted the invitation to play. And even now, everyone has the choice of not playing in this league again. They also have a choice of stepping up and trying to help make things better next year. In all of these threads and posts, has anyone volunteered to write new rules or help next season?

No, people don't want to work. They want to take advantage of other people's work and just bitch about it.

Amen.

[Underground]

TK is exactly right. Of course the rules should be 'cut and dry' as possible, but there is no way in the world that anyone is going to write or read a 750 page rule book.
I am the first to say that the TW rules should be written in a way that reduces subjectiveness. I have previously posted that ideally staffers should NOT have to be 'making calls' during matches. But the fact is, just as TK points out, it is impossible to have rules that cover every situation.
The other problem is that no matter how much effort someone puts into writing very detailed rules, people will still seek to exploit any loop-holes. For a real life example, look at most tax 'rules'. They did not start out being hundreds of pages long. PEOPLE (tax payers) drove them to be more complex every year because they have high motivation to try to find loop-holes. Year after year, each loop-hole was closed with more rules and more complexity to tax forms.

I am also dismayed to see people make such obvious self-serving, after-the-fact, whining about the rules of an online game when:
- they are doing nothing to contribute
- they were invited to play in this league
Look at the number of threads and posts in this forum about appeal decisions. No one stood up and made these posts BEFORE the season. If these issues are so important, why did no one use the large amount of time before the season finally started to raise these issues. Everyone knew about the appeal process, everyone knew that the league staffers would make decisions, everyone knew that league staffer would make mistakes, everyone knew league staffers belonged to and played on squads, everyone knew that issues like lag and buggy BOTS would be an issue.
But everyone accepted these things when they accepted the invitation to play. And even now, everyone has the choice of not playing in this league again. They also have a choice of stepping up and trying to help make things better next year. In all of these threads and posts, has anyone volunteered to write new rules or help next season?

No, people don't want to work. They want to take advantage of other people's work and just bitch about it.

(Y)