A new way of looking at how to Qualify

[veetee]

The rating system should be introduced for next TWL, when the preliminar and corresponding TWD rating will be reset. Squads should be aware of the changes once the new TWD reset begins so they can adjust their policies to the system and hence maximise their efficiency.

[kthx]

Hey myth, bring back private basing.

But yeah, I disagree with you when you say that this will cause a drop in competition in TWL, top ranked squads are top ranked squads generally because they have smart captains, and smart captains will be able to follow this system pretty easily when it comes to finding games. Maybe you aren't factoring in that the current twd points will still be given on top of all of these extra points. So.. if you beat X squad right now, you still get the.. 25 rating change on the ladder, but then all these other variables are mixed into it.

[MirrorriM]

That's why Ave R is so important. Sure, if a squad wants 3 points a win they can play a newb squad--but that comes at a price, namely, Ave R.

On the other hand, sure a newb squad can play a squad with a really high Ave R, but what are the chances they actually win it?

We gotta look at all aspects, not just what is obvious at first glance. Ave R is 2 points per every point above 1000. If you have 950 rating, you get no Ave R bonus.

If you think the system is weak and "made up on the spot" and that Ave R needs to be increased, by all means, please give me your point values! I would like some examples to prove your point, or else I cant improve anything.

[Mythrandir]

Mirrorrim,

Based on the 4 problems you listed:

1) We dislike squads getting into TWL by only playing newb squads
2) activity and longevity of a squad is important for TWL
3) TWL needs to be competitive
4) TWL should have fewer squads drop out during the season

you introduced the following point system:

One game - 1 point
One win - 3 points
One loss - -3 points
Win Streak - 2 points per win after 7(?) wins in a row
Ave. Rating - 2 points per average rating over 1000.
Longevity* - 15 points for every month played after final reset.

I do not really see how you have solved listed problem 1. In the rating system, there is a diminishing reward in playing the same 'newb' squad over and over again. In the proposed point system, a squad will gain 3 points from a win, regardless who their opponent was. That would stimulate squads to find weaker targets. On top of that, the win streak bonus would make it even worse - once a squad is in a winning streak it will make damn sure to keep it and take no risks with !challenging strong opponents.

The usage of Ave. Rating is interesting, how is this calculated? Is each interval a time-interval or per game played? What happens if a squad's average rating is below 1000, will it lose points or does nothing happen? As you have it now, I think the weight for ave rating is way too low. In general, your point attributions appear to be made up on the spot.

I agree that such a system would be more biased to selecting squads that are more active and not as fragile (item 2 & 4). On the other hand, it would be less competitive, as it will be a lot easier now for weaker squads to be selected simply by playing more games and picking on weaker squads.

[Jones]

What if we gave 50 points for each squad that was in last years TWL at all, 75 for semi-finalists, and 100 for the winners of last years TWL, that would promote longevity and not provide too much of a bonus against newer squads perhaps.. not one that 2-3 games won against a good squad couldn't provide.

... or just let them into twl again. Most squads that last are actually good or will be improving if not, then look at Disoblige for example who easily had a few players who still after months of inactivity played better than alot of the players from squads ranked in the top 8.

Once there are enough squads who get auto invites start inviting 14 or more squads again. The competitive aspect will surely not be decreased if any at all as long as the squad show enough players for each of their game in the last season, even if they do went 0-11 they can still learn alot and improve, however how many squads that lost everything have actually lasted more than one season? Zero. I am certain squads that have been competing in twl a long time already (Disoblige, Thunder etc etc) are all competitive enough. If not, then atleast they have atleast proven seasons past that they have enough people showing for every game.

The only real problem is people squadhopping, say a few starters want more twd activity they will leave the stable, competitive squad in a weaker state, which could result in a decreased skill-level but I'm sure it wouldn't lead to 0-11 or something.

Right now I can barely remember every squad from last season... but Stray/Thunder/Disoblige/Dice/Spastic/Penetrate/ in their respective leagues would not be such a blowout now would it?

[kthx]

What if we gave 50 points for each squad that was in last years TWL at all, 75 for semi-finalists, and 100 for the winners of last years TWL, that would promote longevity and not provide too much of a bonus against newer squads perhaps.. not one that 2-3 games won against a good squad couldn't provide.

[Capital Knockers]

That depends capital, because the average rating system is a small point concern next to the game won aspect... so even if you lose 3 average rating from playing a squad, you still get the rating from beating them, +3 for a game won. Also you can never forget the players.. the players want dd's and you can't always find a dd against a good squad, if your a captain, you will be almost forced to find dd's against both good and bad squads. Lets face it, at 2am when XXPUBERSQUADSUPREMEXX challenges you, you will accept it because nobody else is on, so newbies will get their fair share of games still. I am also hoping that the games played and games won will promote activity in TWD. Also.. I don't think that the ladder should be reset for this.. if we instate this right now or within the week, there is still enough time before TWL to do this, but at the same time it takes out the time of a way to think out a way to cheat the system before we think of a way to tighten it up before next TWL. I also trust that Paladen.. who would have been invited with our current system, and would also be currently with the new system to do the right thing and opt out of their TWL spot. The captains know the limitations of their squad, and have decided to go back to the honorable respected Paladen, and by cruising into TWL and ruining the competition for others on the legacy of another captain, they will just be furthering the dishonor of paladen in 2008.

It's true that newb squads will in the long run still get dds, and qualification time isn't year round. However they still will be affected. I'm torn between whether I'd want this changes put in now or later. On one hand, it'd really hurt my squads chances, and your point on not having enough time to fully test the new system is a concern as well. Yet on the other hand, I like the long-term look of the changes. I really think it would encourage squads to stick together longer and etc. if they knew they'd get a better chance at making twl by sticking with one squad.

When it breaks down though, it seems like the advantages of this system would be best in the long-run. Meaning it wouldn't be as effective if we threw it into play now, rather than next twl. Mirr, I also think maybe, rather than 25, 50, 75. Maybe 3-10 pts per year? As much as It doesn't help me, if a squad has been alive 5 years, they deserve to be rewarded for all 5 - not just 2+

[kthx]

That depends capital, because the average rating system is a small point concern next to the game won aspect... so even if you lose 3 average rating from playing a squad, you still get the rating from beating them, +3 for a game won. Also you can never forget the players.. the players want dd's and you can't always find a dd against a good squad, if your a captain, you will be almost forced to find dd's against both good and bad squads. Lets face it, at 2am when XXPUBERSQUADSUPREMEXX challenges you, you will accept it because nobody else is on, so newbies will get their fair share of games still. I am also hoping that the games played and games won will promote activity in TWD. Also.. I don't think that the ladder should be reset for this.. if we instate this right now or within the week, there is still enough time before TWL to do this, but at the same time it takes out the time of a way to think out a way to cheat the system before we think of a way to tighten it up before next TWL. I also trust that Paladen.. who would have been invited with our current system, and would also be currently with the new system to do the right thing and opt out of their TWL spot. The captains know the limitations of their squad, and have decided to go back to the honorable respected Paladen, and by cruising into TWL and ruining the competition for others on the legacy of another captain, they will just be furthering the dishonor of paladen in 2008.

[MirrorriM]

Good comments so far, but let's try to remember that in a situation like Paladen, that EITHER system would fail, not just this one, since like most of you pointed out, their good players left. On that point, I am NOT going to be looking at a squad's roster and guesstimating the potential of a squad. A similar situation happened last TWL and not many people were happy with that.

Whatever we decide, it is going to be a by-the-numbers, do-the-math, qualification system. So I hope a lot of you will do the math for your squad and really see how closely you are affected by this system. I obviously cant do every hypothetical situation, so if you see a way to abuse, write up a nice example so we can all see.

The comments are helpful, keep discussing!

[Very Invisible]

True, and the also much more new squads could of easily faced a top squad as their first match and their avg. rating shoots up to that and they could easily face easier squads and milk some points from them to move their way up a ladder.

I say we should try to look at recent games at a certain point and try to calculate if they are truly that good to be in TWL, like VT said, Paladen has no good players anymore from the big fiasco and they are not as active either.

So many decisions.

[veetee]

Ave R does not measure wether the squads played mostly amateur opponents if the squad lasted since the TWD had been reset. Squad will not catch up with its ave with teams that started month ago and +2 for every >1000 is more crucial than +15 for 3-4 months.

The proposed rating does not fully reflect current squad's capacity. Paladen for example, where they got amazing winning streaks and W:L ratio, while no one of those who did it are in the squad. Squads that were weaker in the beginning of the TWD rest and got a lot of losses, but are now more of a threat may be turned down.

[Very Invisible]

I say if you're going to do this, either give more time til TWL or just keep trying to perfect this idea until the next TWL comes around because for doing this right now would be unfair in some points or we could have another reset but I don't think that would be any better.

Just an idea.

[Paky Dude]

Liking the idea but wouldn't it be to late to start this system? It should have started when it was reset. Not knowing the system before hand and enforcing it now will only upset the players because now for example, look at my squad.. We have lost more games than won but our rating is good at 1302. I'd like to see what comes up on this topic.

[Capital Knockers]

Well it isn't perfect, but its better than just giving squads points for being around for X years, especially when it would help some squads MUCH more than others that might not be as good as the other squads entering the league. Ill think of another idea as I go get something to eat.

There are a few other potential problems I could think of. Though this doesn't affect the TWL squads as much - won't the whole AVE R rule mean that squads won't want to play the little guys? I mean, I can see the majority of people saying 'fuck them newbs! this is twl damnit!' but I for one feel bad. This means squads starting up, or just lower skill level squads are going to have a REALLY hard time getting a dd unless it's against each other. I suppose it doesn't matter as much, but just thought I'd voice that for the couple hundred guys on Continuum that don't know forums exist. Like it or not, newbs always have been the future of this game, we don't take care of them to an extent, it'll die and be our own fault.

I also agree with the bonus points for years of being alive, but lowering the squads in addition to giving out these points really puts squads like mine in the nutcracker. :P I still agree with it, I just think that if we're going to be pushing all these things into place to make TWL only for the old/vet/pro squads. Like REALLY exclusive, well we need an AML to get into planning like real soon. I've said it a millions times, TWD isn't a league, and why should others be shunned from that sort of play? If we're going to cut them out, it's our responsibility to make something for them. Or like I've said before, how hard would it be to have a History Book setup in TWD? The Standings kept each reset? It seems to fit with the longer spaces inbetween reset times. I mean, what the hell else to people play TWL for, they want their names in there, bragging rights. Sure TWD bragging rights wouldnt be as supreme, but it's a nice quick fix for a AML situation isn't it? Reminds me of pubbers vs elimers hah!

Just my ramblings. I do think these changes are for the best. Even if it fucks me over royally :P

EDIT - and i agree with Paky to an extent, it's a bit late to put in such huge changes. as much as i agree with them, it isn't really fair to change the method of qualifications this close to twl.

[FarScape]

I love your mirrorrim :wub: