A new way of looking at how to Qualify

[kthx]

Well if a squad plays 200 games, and wins 150 of them, they get 450 points still, it has to be like this, you aren't understand the complexity of the system.

This system keeps the competitive squads in TWL, so if a squad that isn't as good as the top 10 squads they play keeps losing, it is because they are not yet ready to be in TWL.

[Capital Knockers]

Well once again that would give paladen nearly 500 points.. so it doesn't work like that, I think the idea that would work on this would be based on captain loyalty, which is.. for a 1 captain squad, one point for each game a captain has played in, for a 2 captain squad, 1/2 point for each game a captain has played in, and for a 3 captain squad, 1/3 point for each game a captain has played in. And maybe the same for each assistant also, because active, loyal captains are what keeps squads together. So instead of giving the squad points for being around x amount of time, give points to the squads who have the most active captains who have been on the squad for a long period of time.

Most older squads cycle through the cap spots, because realistically, to keep a squad active and healthy, a person can't captain a squad 24/7 365. It would benefit a squad like Quicksand greatly, but in doing so, I believe it gives an unfair advantage. Other squads shouldn't not gain points for being able to shift around the captain spots and stuff. It's not a bad idea wark, just needs changing up a bit.

[kthx]

Yeah, Well I am trying to keep the benefits for my squad out of this sorta.. but honestly the best squads have the most stable leadership in my opinion. Besides.. if you added assistants to this as well, in what you stated.. most of the caps that get inactive aren't axed, they are just demoted to assistants, and an assistant steps up to take the captains slot so.. I don't really think it would help or hurt many of the more loyal, active squads.

[Capital Knockers]

Yeah, Well I am trying to keep the benefits for my squad out of this sorta.. but honestly the best squads have the most stable leadership in my opinion. Besides.. if you added assistants to this as well, in what you stated.. most of the caps that get inactive aren't axed, they are just demoted to assistants, and an assistant steps up to take the captains slot so.. I don't really think it would help or hurt many of the more loyal, active squads.

I agree and disagree. True they're usually left assistants, but not always. If the cap is stepping down from cap, it's usually due to inactivity and irl shit. Meaning an asst space would be wasted on them, especially on a squad with a bigger roster. Personally I change my assts daily if I feel the need to/or I think it'll make my squad more active. How would we keep track of the constant changes? It seems like an extremely difficult thing to keep track of.

[kthx]

Well it isn't perfect, but its better than just giving squads points for being around for X years, especially when it would help some squads MUCH more than others that might not be as good as the other squads entering the league. Ill think of another idea as I go get something to eat.

[kentaro]

i like this idea, however if we use it for THIS TWL
another reset is required!

[FarScape]

I love your mirrorrim :wub:

[Capital Knockers]

Well it isn't perfect, but its better than just giving squads points for being around for X years, especially when it would help some squads MUCH more than others that might not be as good as the other squads entering the league. Ill think of another idea as I go get something to eat.

There are a few other potential problems I could think of. Though this doesn't affect the TWL squads as much - won't the whole AVE R rule mean that squads won't want to play the little guys? I mean, I can see the majority of people saying 'fuck them newbs! this is twl damnit!' but I for one feel bad. This means squads starting up, or just lower skill level squads are going to have a REALLY hard time getting a dd unless it's against each other. I suppose it doesn't matter as much, but just thought I'd voice that for the couple hundred guys on Continuum that don't know forums exist. Like it or not, newbs always have been the future of this game, we don't take care of them to an extent, it'll die and be our own fault.

I also agree with the bonus points for years of being alive, but lowering the squads in addition to giving out these points really puts squads like mine in the nutcracker. :P I still agree with it, I just think that if we're going to be pushing all these things into place to make TWL only for the old/vet/pro squads. Like REALLY exclusive, well we need an AML to get into planning like real soon. I've said it a millions times, TWD isn't a league, and why should others be shunned from that sort of play? If we're going to cut them out, it's our responsibility to make something for them. Or like I've said before, how hard would it be to have a History Book setup in TWD? The Standings kept each reset? It seems to fit with the longer spaces inbetween reset times. I mean, what the hell else to people play TWL for, they want their names in there, bragging rights. Sure TWD bragging rights wouldnt be as supreme, but it's a nice quick fix for a AML situation isn't it? Reminds me of pubbers vs elimers hah!

Just my ramblings. I do think these changes are for the best. Even if it fucks me over royally :P

EDIT - and i agree with Paky to an extent, it's a bit late to put in such huge changes. as much as i agree with them, it isn't really fair to change the method of qualifications this close to twl.

[Paky Dude]

Liking the idea but wouldn't it be to late to start this system? It should have started when it was reset. Not knowing the system before hand and enforcing it now will only upset the players because now for example, look at my squad.. We have lost more games than won but our rating is good at 1302. I'd like to see what comes up on this topic.

[Very Invisible]

I say if you're going to do this, either give more time til TWL or just keep trying to perfect this idea until the next TWL comes around because for doing this right now would be unfair in some points or we could have another reset but I don't think that would be any better.

Just an idea.

[veetee]

Ave R does not measure wether the squads played mostly amateur opponents if the squad lasted since the TWD had been reset. Squad will not catch up with its ave with teams that started month ago and +2 for every >1000 is more crucial than +15 for 3-4 months.

The proposed rating does not fully reflect current squad's capacity. Paladen for example, where they got amazing winning streaks and W:L ratio, while no one of those who did it are in the squad. Squads that were weaker in the beginning of the TWD rest and got a lot of losses, but are now more of a threat may be turned down.

[Very Invisible]

True, and the also much more new squads could of easily faced a top squad as their first match and their avg. rating shoots up to that and they could easily face easier squads and milk some points from them to move their way up a ladder.

I say we should try to look at recent games at a certain point and try to calculate if they are truly that good to be in TWL, like VT said, Paladen has no good players anymore from the big fiasco and they are not as active either.

So many decisions.

[MirrorriM]

Good comments so far, but let's try to remember that in a situation like Paladen, that EITHER system would fail, not just this one, since like most of you pointed out, their good players left. On that point, I am NOT going to be looking at a squad's roster and guesstimating the potential of a squad. A similar situation happened last TWL and not many people were happy with that.

Whatever we decide, it is going to be a by-the-numbers, do-the-math, qualification system. So I hope a lot of you will do the math for your squad and really see how closely you are affected by this system. I obviously cant do every hypothetical situation, so if you see a way to abuse, write up a nice example so we can all see.

The comments are helpful, keep discussing!

[kthx]

That depends capital, because the average rating system is a small point concern next to the game won aspect... so even if you lose 3 average rating from playing a squad, you still get the rating from beating them, +3 for a game won. Also you can never forget the players.. the players want dd's and you can't always find a dd against a good squad, if your a captain, you will be almost forced to find dd's against both good and bad squads. Lets face it, at 2am when XXPUBERSQUADSUPREMEXX challenges you, you will accept it because nobody else is on, so newbies will get their fair share of games still. I am also hoping that the games played and games won will promote activity in TWD. Also.. I don't think that the ladder should be reset for this.. if we instate this right now or within the week, there is still enough time before TWL to do this, but at the same time it takes out the time of a way to think out a way to cheat the system before we think of a way to tighten it up before next TWL. I also trust that Paladen.. who would have been invited with our current system, and would also be currently with the new system to do the right thing and opt out of their TWL spot. The captains know the limitations of their squad, and have decided to go back to the honorable respected Paladen, and by cruising into TWL and ruining the competition for others on the legacy of another captain, they will just be furthering the dishonor of paladen in 2008.

[Capital Knockers]

That depends capital, because the average rating system is a small point concern next to the game won aspect... so even if you lose 3 average rating from playing a squad, you still get the rating from beating them, +3 for a game won. Also you can never forget the players.. the players want dd's and you can't always find a dd against a good squad, if your a captain, you will be almost forced to find dd's against both good and bad squads. Lets face it, at 2am when XXPUBERSQUADSUPREMEXX challenges you, you will accept it because nobody else is on, so newbies will get their fair share of games still. I am also hoping that the games played and games won will promote activity in TWD. Also.. I don't think that the ladder should be reset for this.. if we instate this right now or within the week, there is still enough time before TWL to do this, but at the same time it takes out the time of a way to think out a way to cheat the system before we think of a way to tighten it up before next TWL. I also trust that Paladen.. who would have been invited with our current system, and would also be currently with the new system to do the right thing and opt out of their TWL spot. The captains know the limitations of their squad, and have decided to go back to the honorable respected Paladen, and by cruising into TWL and ruining the competition for others on the legacy of another captain, they will just be furthering the dishonor of paladen in 2008.

It's true that newb squads will in the long run still get dds, and qualification time isn't year round. However they still will be affected. I'm torn between whether I'd want this changes put in now or later. On one hand, it'd really hurt my squads chances, and your point on not having enough time to fully test the new system is a concern as well. Yet on the other hand, I like the long-term look of the changes. I really think it would encourage squads to stick together longer and etc. if they knew they'd get a better chance at making twl by sticking with one squad.

When it breaks down though, it seems like the advantages of this system would be best in the long-run. Meaning it wouldn't be as effective if we threw it into play now, rather than next twl. Mirr, I also think maybe, rather than 25, 50, 75. Maybe 3-10 pts per year? As much as It doesn't help me, if a squad has been alive 5 years, they deserve to be rewarded for all 5 - not just 2+