A new way of looking at how to Qualify

[Capital Knockers]

MirrorriM I think before we even continue this thread, we need to know if these changes we're talking about are being implemented this Season or not. Honestly, I like them, but I think it's too late to change things now. Adding another 2 squads to LD is one thing, we had the squads there, but overhauling the qualifications system this long after a reset, and this close to TWL just doesn't work. It's only going to cause delays, and people getting cranky if we change things now.

I don't think this system would be fair if started, without a reset. Like midoent was saying. Squads that played alot of newer squads earlier on, really don't have much time to make up that AVE R. I spent all day dding with my squad to get AVE R pts, loosing most of the games because we were just throwing different lines in all the time. We just wanted the AVE R. However this causes alot of stress. Not just because of the losses, but we've worked hard to get where we are, and we like our pts. But to get our AVE R anywhere near acceptable, we can only play the top 10 squads (who dont always want to play us), and really, we're better off loosing atm rather than winning. That way we can face more squads above us to raise our AVE R.

So I ask this. Whiskeyjack as an example (I know it's mine, I'm tired and it's the easiest example). We've come a long way from when we started yes? Do you people see guys flying on and off our roster daily? We're active, pretty friendly, and able to upset (and have) almost all the top squads if we have our main guys on. I'm sure people can see we can play and team at a twld level - and for the people that still don't think we're there yet, well give it another month and see. Point is, why should my squad have to goto hell and back to try and up a AVE R in less than a month, when I'm sure people can tell, if we're qualified R-wise come twl, we'd do fine.

Anyhow, long and short of it. It's too late to change qualification methods for this twl, it should of been done with the reset.

Just to backup my own point here. This topic was made near a week ago now. We're still in the discussion stage of figuring out changes. TWL is suppose to randomly hit us sometime in October. If we still haven't even figured out if these changes are for now or later, nor the complete nature of these changes - how can we expect to put them into action for October? It's going to mean delays, alot of stress for the staff and not to mention captains that might have to change how their squad plays games. Once again, considering we're still not 100% on whether these changes are for this season or next - the time captains have to KNOW what qualification system we're using is running short. In no way do I mean this personally, or offensively - but it would be highly un-professional to expect the community to adapt to these changes with so little time. I'm also pretty sure the last thing anyone wants is a whole host of delays because we're changing the system this late and far from the reset. In addition, what if we're ALL missing some major problem with this new system? We aren't leaving much time to test it.

So, I'd like to hear some staff feedback on this. Oh, and if Mirr or someone has already pointed out whether or not the changes are being talked about this season or next... please someone tell me to shut up and stop making myself look like a fool. Not that I don't look that way already! :P

[MirrorriM]

If mostly everyone liked the changes, they would be used for this TWL season. There is going to be a big TWL staff meeting next week to talk about this qualification system, the 4 spid rule, the rounds, etc based on the responses we got here.If it turns out that any of the changes only receive a mediocre response, then they wont be instated.

[Sirius]

Still hope either way TWL starts in Oct., would be a pity to wait any longer

[Capital Knockers]

If mostly everyone liked the changes, they would be used for this TWL season. There is going to be a big TWL staff meeting next week to talk about this qualification system, the 4 spid rule, the rounds, etc based on the responses we got here.If it turns out that any of the changes only receive a mediocre response, then they wont be instated.

Can I come?

Thanks for the response and update Mirr. I really hope, even if new qualifications rules are put into place, that staff makes some sort of adjustment regarding how little time we have to qualify using a whole new system. If I had known about the AVE R thing from the start, I would of been captaining, and my squad would of been playing, entirely differently for the past month and a half. Yet, I don't want delays either - so whatever you guys decide, I'll just shut up and deal. :fear:

[Voth]

you're dumb if you think longevity has anything to do with being together since a final TWD reset. that means a squad gets rewarded for being created sometime after a TWL season, wow congratulations on being together for a couple of months, really impressive.

as for the last proposal to reward longevity, it's a joke as well. there's hardly any difference, you get 25 points for being around for less than 1 year, and for more than 2 years (for instance Disoblige with 7+ years falls in the 2+ years category) you get an amazing 50 points extra, which is just nothing at all. the only way to make that work, if you'd honestly want to reward longevity, is to give 50 points for every year a squad has been alive. now that would be a good idea.

So say Disoblige was really bad now, but just because they have been around for a long time and got like 450 bonus points for that, they edged out squads twice as good as them. Fair? I think not. Disoblige is a good squad and I respect it and you as a captain of it, but you are no different than the other squads that play TWL and rot off in the offseason, just to flare up for TWL again.

[Hurricane]

i'd much rather have a team in TWL that rots in the offseason then a team that rots during twl. i say this is a pretty good idea but there should be some voting that would take place aswell.. disoblige has always been around for twl.. but paladen hasnt and if paladen wants to play twl and they are the longest squad in TW they shouldnt get the points because they havent played TWL before etc.. The thing that bugs me most about TWL is having squads that dissolve in the middle of TWL. captains... if you lose a player or two to another TWL squad dont dissolve recruit or just continue playing. sick of that bs

[Downfall]

along with all ur ways to determine who qualifies for twl (just an idea) get like 50 ppl or sumthing to vote for what squads they think should make it and squad with highest votes gets certain number or points and so on..

[Soilderz]

along with all ur ways to determine who qualifies for twl (just an idea) get like 50 ppl or sumthing to vote for what squads they think should make it and squad with highest votes gets certain number or points and so on..

so..why do we twd?

[PjOtTeR]

I just realised that for example brainwave has 600+ games played in bd department... which means they get 600+ points just for that...
That is a whole friggin lot and has nothing to do with being appropriate for twl anymore.

Just to portray it in numbers...
Ill compare thunder to Brainwave...
# Squad G W L W:L CWS BWS AVE R Rating
1. Thunder 122 65 57 1.1 2 8 1131 1353
8. Brainwave 623 292 331 0.9 0 10 1121 1115

If you calculate it the way you wanna do it currently...
Thunder Brainwave
Games played 122 623
Wins (*3) 195 886
Losses(*-3) -171 -993
BWS above 7 (*2) 2 6
AVE R above 1000(*2) 262 242
Rating 1353 1115
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Total 1743 1879

This means that Brainwave is far better for TWL then Thunder....

In other words this method is probably more flawed then doing it just by the rating itself or even do it by rating and ave rating totall....
It rewards squads way to much for just playing a whole bunch of bd's, which is stupid and which is why you should put a limit like you do in the rules by saying a squad has to play x number of games and a squad has to be created x amount of time before twl starts... but it shouldn't be allowed for qualifying in itself, which above calculation clearly shows...

[MirrorriM]

I must say I'm very glad to see someone finally did some math on their own to try and figure what the weaknesses of this new system are! You are right that something is off.

They both dont have a very good win:loss ratio, and Thunder barely plays harder squads. Yet Thunder has a very high rating! That is also a little unfair, isnt it? Thunder has a better "reputation," but does that mean they deserve TWL more?

[PjOtTeR]

Disoblige lost 35 of their 50 bds... yet our rating is positive...
Why...? it's because we mostly play high rated squads... if we Would now get an 8 game winstreak vs those squads, we would get 8 * 25+ points which is 200+ points... which would give us a pretty good rating....

A good way of doing invites would be the Average rating a squad has had over the qualifying period.... (although that would be disastrous for squads like diso who tend to fuck around and not care so much about rating untill the qualifying date comes)...
That way a squad doesn't just tumble down suddenly because they had one bad day in the end just before teams are picked...

So basicly you can easy let the site calculate what the average rating of the squad was after each game...
New AverageRating of the squad = (old averagerating * (games played-1) + Current Rating) / games played

A simple example:

A squad starts at 1000 points... they win their first match and gain 25 points... after their match they played 1 game... old averagerating was 1000..
games played-1 = 0
currentrating = 1025
games played = 1

So New Averagerating = (1000*0 + 1025) / 1 = 1025

Next match they win again and gain 23 points this time...

So New averagerating = (1025*1 + 1048) / 2 = 1036,5

They win again and gain 22 points...

New Averagerating = (1036,5*2 + 1070) / 3 = 1044,33

After lets say 40 matches the averagerating of the squad is lets say 1200
and the Currentrating of the squad is 1350...

teh squad loses a match and loses 35 points for it....
Currentrating drops to 1315... but because it is still higher than the averagerating your averagerating increases....

By using this system, not only do squads have to play a good amount of games... it also forces squads to constantly watch their rating so they have to be good during the entire qualification time...

This way squads cannot just duel high rated squads constantly so their rating hardly decreases when they lose yet boosts immensely when they win and their average rating of squads played gets insanely high...

I am too tired now to explain why and how this system is good, so I am gonna go to sleep and I might put some more +'s maybe some -'s if I can think of one up tomorrow... I just hope you get my idea and why it is good for what you want.... Although people might disagree on wether what you want is a good idea or not.

Personally I think the current rating calculations aren't that bad because it allows squads to just screw around a bit and just a few weeks before the cut off date make sure they get their rating up so they qualify... This way the squads that are able to do that will most likely get in and (in my opinion) that are probably the better squads...

[Dreamwin]

They both dont have a very good win:loss ratio, and Thunder barely plays harder squads. Yet Thunder has a very high rating! That is also a little unfair, isnt it? Thunder has a better "reputation," but does that mean they deserve TWL more?

lies

[Capital Knockers]

Disoblige lost 35 of their 50 bds... yet our rating is positive...
Why...? it's because we mostly play high rated squads... if we Would now get an 8 game winstreak vs those squads, we would get 8 * 25+ points which is 200+ points... which would give us a pretty good rating....

A good way of doing invites would be the Average rating a squad has had over the qualifying period.... (although that would be disastrous for squads like diso who tend to fuck around and not care so much about rating untill the qualifying date comes)...
That way a squad doesn't just tumble down suddenly because they had one bad day in the end just before teams are picked...

So basicly you can easy let the site calculate what the average rating of the squad was after each game...
New AverageRating of the squad = (old averagerating * (games played-1) + Current Rating) / games played

A simple example:

A squad starts at 1000 points... they win their first match and gain 25 points... after their match they played 1 game... old averagerating was 1000..
games played-1 = 0
currentrating = 1025
games played = 1

So New Averagerating = (1000*0 + 1025) / 1 = 1025

Next match they win again and gain 23 points this time...

So New averagerating = (1025*1 + 1048) / 2 = 1036,5

They win again and gain 22 points...

New Averagerating = (1036,5*2 + 1070) / 3 = 1044,33

After lets say 40 matches the averagerating of the squad is lets say 1200
and the Currentrating of the squad is 1350...

teh squad loses a match and loses 35 points for it....
Currentrating drops to 1315... but because it is still higher than the averagerating your averagerating increases....

By using this system, not only do squads have to play a good amount of games... it also forces squads to constantly watch their rating so they have to be good during the entire qualification time...

This way squads cannot just duel high rated squads constantly so their rating hardly decreases when they lose yet boosts immensely when they win and their average rating of squads played gets insanely high...

I am too tired now to explain why and how this system is good, so I am gonna go to sleep and I might put some more +'s maybe some -'s if I can think of one up tomorrow... I just hope you get my idea and why it is good for what you want.... Although people might disagree on wether what you want is a good idea or not.

Personally I think the current rating calculations aren't that bad because it allows squads to just screw around a bit and just a few weeks before the cut off date make sure they get their rating up so they qualify... This way the squads that are able to do that will most likely get in and (in my opinion) that are probably the better squads...

thats what I was doing with my squad until Mirr made it clear that AVE R wasn't in effect this season. It was working really well too. We had something stupid like a 1048 AVE R (23rd place) 2 or 3 weeks ago? We basically made a rule, that we couldn't challenge anyone lower than us, and we tried to keep it to top 5 only if possible. Doing this made our AVE R go up to 1109, where it is currently at 13th. Still, if everyone is aware of this, everyone can work on their AVE R in the same fashion. If anything it means that maybe the number one squad would be forced to lose a couple games, take a place lower on the ladder to get their AVE R up. In the end, I think it just makes for more interesting competition.

[HateTheFake]

I would really like a way to pause avg r calculation til after 2 weeks of reset. Most squads start out playing everyone for 1k avg r, and when a squad like quake or solctice or watever come along they play the same people for 1300 avg r. So to create some sort of balance i would like to see avg r calculations paused until 2 weeks after reset at the least

[Downfall]

twl is in 3 weeks