LIT v SHR

[Server]

i agree with guru $$$

[Mayo Inc.]

Well then, to get around the lineups the two squads should be required to use their substitutions to put in different players.

What is it 3 subs for TWL? You guys better show 5 non laggers.

[RabbitRapist]

I think Epi means ships not players.

[Eric is God]

Well as I understand it, a game should be replayed if something beyond the control of either team occured that directly affected the outcome of the match. Now I wasnt there and just got the jist of it from both sides, but from what my squadmates tell me the miscount by the bot did directly affect the outcome of the match. I doubt that any1 could realistically claim to know what the score would have been if the bot didnt screw up, although im sure Light believe they would have won and we believe that we would have won. Definetely something that can be argued .... I mean you can call the Shriek players lazy for not calculating the current score themselves, but is that enough to deserve a loss instead of a replay? I dont think so myself, obviously Epi and Pusher agree. I think the fact that both squads are unhappy with the result shows that this is the right call.

[bloodzombie]

I don't understand the need for the replay. What's the argument? that shriek would've run away if they knew they weren't winning by so much?

[dare]

Originally posted by bloodzombie
I don't understand the need for the replay. What's the argument? that shriek would've run away if they knew they weren't winning by so much?

[Eric is God]

Originally posted by bloodzombie
I don't understand the need for the replay. What's the argument? that shriek would've run away if they knew they weren't winning by so much?

Im not 100% sure since I only got a vague explanation, but I think it had to do with the fact that our guys didnt care that they lost the base in the last couple min and didnt try to get it back since the bot said we were winning by a few thousand or something. Dont quote me though, im just taking an educated guess. Ive been in a few matches where if my team was leading by 10k or so in the last few minutes, ppl just relaxed because we knew it was over. If we happened to lose the base while ahead with a couple minutes left, it was smart to slowly make your way back to the base and let time run down for the win. So if the bot was giving out the correct info, we would have played hard to keep/take the base in the last couple minutes since we would have been aware of the correct score and not the one that the bot was showing. It makes sense to me at least ....

[Verthanthi]

They would have run away earlier. They were up by...20k? I don't know exactly (obviously, as the scoreboard was busted) but they were up by a whole bunch with about 3 minutes to go. They attacked base anyway, until they were only up by about 5k, then started running.

[bloodzombie]

I don't know if there should be replay this time or not, based on the rules, but if the rules suggest a replay, I think they need to be changed.

In a game that's that close it seems stupid to relax and "not care if you lose base". Why take any chances? I'm gonna guess that's not really what happened. I think they lost the base legitimately and now are using the scoreboard as a reason to get a rematch, and I can't blame them for that.. seems like good captaining to me, but the rules should probably be changed so that the points at the end matter, not what the scoreboard or anyone else says.

[Eric is God]

Originally posted by bloodzombie
I don't know if there should be replay this time or not, based on the rules, but if the rules suggest a replay, I think they need to be changed.

In a game that's that close it seems stupid to relax and "not care if you lose base". Why take any chances? I'm gonna guess that's not really what happened. I think they lost the base legitimately and now are using the scoreboard as a reason to get a rematch, and I can't blame them for that.. seems like good captaining to me, but the rules should probably be changed so that the points at the end matter, not what the scoreboard or anyone else says.

-shrugs- Im sure it was a shock when our players were told they lost when they believed they had won, when I came on afterwards they were all quite pissed because they truly thought we deserved the win. We all know that had this happened to any other squad, a rematch would have been demanded and bitched for constantly. But its the first time this sort of error has occured and this is how its going to be remedied. All thats left is to play the rematch, make a new rule about this sort of thing and move on.

Good squads adjust their play based on the current score (no im not saying relaxing at the end is smart, its a more general comment). If the scoreboard isnt correct then you need a player to go and calc the scores himself and let his squad know whats happening. If thats the way its going to be then fine, make it a rule. I believe the point is that an error in the bot did affect the outcome of the match. No our players didnt use a random error as an excuse; I wouldnt be in a squad that had to lie to get victories, or rematches as the case may be.

[THE PUSHER]

Allow me to explain the decision to replay this game in it's entirety. The scoreboard failure is only a minor part of the decision, as you will see once I explain.

What we actually had to take into account were three seperate instances of failure in this game:

First failure was the bot itself failing to recognize a substitute that was being attempted by the squads. This is not an uncommon occurence, and has been dealt with by coaching the squadcaptains to type out entire names or having the host force a sub into the game. In this instance the host had to manually put the player in the game.

At this point, the host should have notified the arena that he had manually placed a substitute in the game and that the scoreboard and !score functions would no longer be correct. This was not done, and we have failure number 2. All TWL refs are trained to arena message any action they are taking that will directly affect the game in progress. By not doing this, it places both squads at a disadvantage by not knowing exactly where they stand or what is going on.

Another substitute that was done by the teams themselves leads us to failure number 3. The TWBot itself did not correctly state or record the stats for 2 players that were swapped out via the !sub commands. So we were left with improper scores recorded for two players.

All of these factors led me to decide (yes Epi and I both discussed it, but the decision was primarily mine, dispell your conspiracy theories now) to replay the match entirely. Let me draw your attention to the two rules that apply to this situation.

4.01 If an unpredictable server crash, router failure, TWBot failure, or other event has a massive impact on a game in progress, the game will be paused and restarted from the point it was stopped. All replays will commence immediately unless the League Operator finds sufficient reason to postpone the remainder of the match (see rule 4.06).

4.03 During a postponed round, the affected squads must have the exact same line-up in place as they had before the break in the game. This includes all squad members who were actively participating in the game, and any substitutes that were registered with the game referee prior to the start of the match. Each player will start the game with the same record they had during the stoppage of play from the postponed round (i.e. players who have died out already, may NOT play under any circumstances in the postponed round). Player substitutes will only be used if it is found impossible for an active participant to return, or else the team will play shorthanded.

The instances of failure were a combination of TWBot and referee, and all three of these instances occured at different times. By themselves, they aren't enough to warrant a replay, but combined they do. The next question would be, where do you restart it from? Since there were three different occurances, in which the exact time and scores for each is unknown, it was determined that the game should be entirely replayed based on the replay guidelines.

Now on the matter of the same line-up.. the wording in that rule was unfortunately never edited to fit the current standards in TWL. As many of you know there are no longer any requirements to notify the referee of the subs you will be using for that game. Since there is going to be a complete replay.. we will only expect each squad to show a minimum of 5 of the players from the original game. The remaining 3 can be taken from the eligable remaining TWL roster. In accordance with the rules, if any position in these games is used up by a substitute at the start, it will be counted as one of your three substitutions for the game. (For instance: 7 of the 8 players from the original game show up, but you have to fill one spot. That one spot you filled will be counted as a substitute and one removed from your total of 3 for the game.)

-PUSH

[bloodzombie]

all of a sudden that seems really fair.


kudos to you, push.

[Zerzera]

What if it happend before rosterlock and one of the players had left the squad? Between match and rematch ^_^

[THE PUSHER]

Then they would be forced to use an eligable player and one of their three substitutes for the game.