Giving More Credit to Starters on Winning Squads

[Mythril]

As it stands, there's really no way to distinguish benchers from the players who actually played in the finals and won their squad the championship. Each squad member is given an equal amount of credit on the TWD site and in TWL arenas. I think it's a main reason why squads stack and some players are content with benching their way to titles. Just look at Fierce's first win - the squad was so stacked that Skepsis benched the finals. How does that promote this game's competition at all?

Here's an idea to highlight the starters of the winning squad by putting players and their ships on the right of their squad in the TWL arenas. For example, TWLB would look something like this:



TWLD would look like this:




Obviously these aren't exact lineups, just a way to display what it could possibly look like. We'd obviously have to have a definition for what a "starter" is since there can be more than 5 starters in a 3 round game (which happened with Pandora last TWLD, TWLJ and TWLB.) I don't think it would be unreasonable to add 7 ships in the starter box if they all really did start, just in different rounds. There could also be a sub box, etc.

I think the rules should remain strict though, only listing the players who played in the finals and won their squad the game. There are of course exceptions though, like Engineers who couldn't play in the finals on Sweet but obviously would have started and was a major piece in their title run.

This would give more credit to the real champions and expose those who benched their way to a medal. I also just think it'd be cool to be able to compare different starting lines from every winning season.

[Mattey]

I'm totally for this. I could see how scrubs like Beam wouldn't like it.

[Jones]

well, since this is usually limited by the tileset, something as simple as the following would work fine imo.

TWLD

Champions: Pandora
Captains: Ayn, Mattey, Zidane
Players: Amputate, B4sERmaN89_X, Beam, Cape, Children, Chuckle,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Leitz, Let, Locus, Mcvicar, Mythril, Obi, Rough, Sarger, Siaxis, Spezza <TW> , Tim, Tsunami, Undercut, Vatican Assassin
CrimsonX, Dsin, Ease, Evildeed, Fludd, Katc, Kate Upton

Runner Up: Fierce

obviously i just copy&pasted this from the twl website and doesn't represent the actual players. the only change i made was putting a line between starters/key players and the rest. tbh, as a captain when sweet won i would be totally fine with adding our javelins into the 'starters' section as i feel they contributed enough to the squad. that's also something we could discuss

[Mythril]

Can't edit on this terrible forum, but just realized my post is a bit harsh on "exposing benchers." I mostly want this to happen so that I can look at the starting lineups from every season. For example, Thunder won TWLJ 5x in a row with pretty much the same roster but different lines each time. However, I do think this would promote people wanting to play as a "starter" instead of sitting out games when they could be playing and competing on a different squad.

[Ricko]

I couldn't agree more with finding a way to highlight who was in the starting lineup for a squad as opposed to giving all roster members the same amount of praise. I'm a stickler for promoting people not stacking on TWL squads. I will talk to reckful or who ever else is involved in editing the twl maps to see if something can be done for this.

[Reckful]

Its a good idea myth personally the easiest way to help trim the benching for title problem is just remove their ability to earn medals doing so but thats subject to too much complaint to do.

[Tiny]

:thumbsdown:

I think it's a good idea in theory, but the only real thing it will accomplish will be more trolling in a game that has dwindled to nothing more than a group of trolls. Imo, if you want to have more glory and less free loaders, then dont recruit them in the first place. If they are on your squad roster, then they are there for a reason whether it be for the league you won or not and should deserve the same team glory as everyone else. I think working on getting the stats from games in prior seasons on the website so we can see actual game stats as opposed to just a spreadsheet of all games played might help people see who were the starters and who deserves the glory.

[Tiny]

There are too many cases where people will play 2,3, and 4 games during a regular season because the "starters" dont show up until playoffs because its a waste of their time. Then, those same players who got you there show up to playoffs and don't play a minute. Those other people got you there, and you get all the extra glory for "taking it home"? I dont think that's how things should work. I'm all for not giving anything to people who don't play a match in any league all season and havent logged in in 2 months, but everyone who participates to a certain level should get the same thing. Now if you guys want to start doing MVP's for regular season and playoffs, I could support that 100%, but not just the starters.

[Ephemeral]

Tiny
"if you want to have more glory" "deserve the same team glory" "deserves the glory" LOL I had to read that several times to figure out if you were being sarcastic or not.

But seriously, how are you going to determine this? Lets say you have a player who showed up and played 150 TWD games and was absolutely a contributing factor in even getting a squad into TWL. The squad captains reward him for this by giving him a TWL roster spot. Then you guys come along 'knowing better then the squad captain' and decide he doesn't deserve a little icon? Lame. Figure out a way to allow the squad Captains to decide who is and isn't contributing to the team and stop fucking with this shit.
eph

[Tiny]

I am on your side eph.....the other ops are for it. silly

[Ephemeral]

Tiny,
Right now the line is drawn very simply, if you are on roster then you get one. But trouble arises when you try to draw some kind of arbitrary line based upon something like number of games played. No matter where you draw it you will end up running into some exceptions. And then of course you will have end up with dumb shit being done like a player being subbed in for just a few seconds. (Then what? Change it again to ‘number of minutes’ played? And how do you determine if the minute are those which really mattered to a squad winning a championship?) People will always fuck around, hell we had some captains this year subbing players in and out just to win the stupid TWLM.

The only way to not deal with exceptions is to make it subjective. So if you are going to change this then give each squad XX amount of little icons for the championship and allow the Squad captains hand them out as they see fit. Of course you will then also have to add a “*” to any page that displays the number of rings since those before season XX will mean one thing and those after mean something else.
eph

[Exalt]

Just make the starters the people who won the Final's match. Simple. Why is this simple? The best players on the squad will be the starters in that Finals match. They are your starters. They won the Finals. Simple.

What's so hard to grasp about this? Who cares who got them there. If they don't start in the finals, then clearly the squad doesn't give a shit either. It's who wins it at the end, and that's why we show all the players of the winning squad, and say Runner Up: Squadname without player names for the runner ups. Nobody cares about 2nd place or who/how they got there. We only care about the winners, so the starters for that winning Finals match are the players who are the "starters" for the name-recognition thing said here.

[Mythril]

I think removing people's medals is too extreme. My idea is simply to showcase the players who started and won their squad the title. Like Exalt said, the criteria should be simple: who played in the finals and won the game? If a player misses the whole season and gets added over whoever was active and got them there, that's the captain's decision. Whenever I ask someone "what was their line?" when asking about a winning squad, there's a clear and common sense answer that everyone gives - the finals starting lineup. You'll never hear "yeah, they won but so and so was crucial for them in week 3 and 5."

There's still credit and pride to be had for everyone who participated in the squad. People still get their medals and name in the TWL arenas. This only highlights the players who actually got in the game and beat the other team.

For example, my squad won TWLJ and TWLB last year. I was apart of the squad and definitely was proud that we won those leagues. I got my medals, but I don't see how I can take as much credit as the players like ease, cape, zidane, vati etc. who actually played and won me those titles. Do I deserve as much credit as them for winning the leagues that I didn't even play in? I deserve something for being on the squad and contributing throughout the year in squad chat and with coords and jd's etc., but at the end of the day, only a handful of guys on my squad went out there and won us a title. Those players should get more praise.

And Tiny, I disagree about your claim that captain's should be the ones who refuse to recruit "freeloaders". It's always up to the player. It's actually more advantageous to recruit elite players who are willing to bench since you won't have to compete against those guys. We need ways to give an incentive for people to become starters in this dying game instead of stacking on 2 powerhouses. This is just an idea.

[Stayon]

Myth, you can edit if you right click on the button then open a new tab with it, works for me.

So after reading Myth's idea, I went to count who "started" in more TWL finals wins. Deep down, and even neglecting first subs and other people, in reality, the only ones who can actually "brag", are the ones winning the final game, end of story.

Most Successful in TWL, CV material type of stuff :

1 - Ease, 11 medals, starter in all of them.
2 - Cape, 12 medals, starter in 10 of them.
3 - Megaman89, 9 medals, starter in 8 of them.
4 - Stayon, 7 medals, starter in all of them.

There are some people with 4/5 starting finals wins.

Im a legend, mostly because im Portuguese.

Have a good morning bros.

Ronaldo #1.

[Jerome Scuggs]

shut the fuck up, all of you