time race change in TWLB

[Turban]

as people have been sending help calls, confused about the minor change in TWLB, here's the rather simple reason behind the change:

we have a packed, short regular season this year. this was mentioned several weeks ago along with the time race change and the reasoning behind it.

the fact that we have a ton of games over the period of four weeks means that we would have a high chance of schedules overlapping if we were to use the old basing structure with the time race of 15 minutes. this is not only annoying for the league operators and hosts, for the obvious reasons, but also an annoyance for squads in terms of waiting times and scheduling purposes as we would have to take into account the odd chance of games lasting for longer than 30 minutes.

nonetheless we had announced this change several weeks prior to the league even started. there is absolutely no luck factor added to the squads with this change -- 12 minutes is still plenty of time to decide the better team in each game.

however, this is only for regular season. the time race will go up to 20 minutes (best of one) in TWLB playoffs with the finals being best of three series to 15 minutes.

i won't be around much this season, so if the current TWL operators (Ricko, Wax, and M_M God) want to increase it back to 15 minutes, they may do so.

[zidane]

should be 15, lets vote on it

[PrOnEsSim]

should be 15, lets vote on it

Yes, I agree. 12 feels way too short.

[Zizu]

Wow. Fk 12 mins. Over and out.

[Turban]

let's see ..

some of the pros of this change:

- all games will be finished within the allotted 30 minute time frame. this is far more logical for a league and also less confusing for both the teams, league operators and hosts to deal with. it is several times more easier to manage a league when there is no fear of games going overtime.

- .. and with that, hosts will be now be allowed to claim a game in every time slot. previously our hosts were not allowed to claim another game within 30 minutes of their claimed match if they had already committed to hosting a basing game before the time slot. this is due to the fact that it was quite probable that the game would go overtime, thus they would not be able to host the next game in the event of that happening. however with this change, we will theoretically need less hosts to get through the season as there is more freedom of selection which means a smoother season.

- no more scheduling bias by the league operators. we would normally show some form of favoritism towards basing squads to make sure their schedule isn't too packed. as an example, a team could have a game of TWLB scheduled at 3:30 PM EDT. we would generally not accept a 4:00 PM EDT proposal from the other team unless their opponent is okay with it (unless there's no other open time slot) as there is a chance of the basing game lasting for too long, thus forcing the other team to wait for their opponent.

- stomp games (12-0) will not feel as long for both teams, and close games will feel "closer/intense" as there is less time required to win the game, thus every action matters more. it's punishing, sure, but at the same time rewards teams that take the game seriously.

cons:

- people don't like changes, and most importantly are too used to the time race to 15 minutes. however, when the time races are increased to 20 minutes nearly every season for the playoffs, no one bats an eye. nevertheless, the better team will nearly always win -- anything above 10 minutes is enough to decide the victor of a match. the added time only gives each team more time to fool around before the final spurt.

- an average loss of 4 to 5 minutes per match, but on the flip side you will play an average of 15 minutes more per week. we would not be able to use this new league structure as smoothly with the old time race rules.


however, players can always veto this change and ask the other league operators to change it. there's a lot of negatives that will come with it, but hey .. we can always let you back to your comfort zone of excuses.

[LF]

I'm not even playing anymore and I think 12 minutes is too short. It's closer to ?go base standards than it is TWLB standards.

Seems to me that the biggest reason for this change is so less people can host more games since there is always a lack of hosts available. You can try to pretend I don't know what I am talking about when I mentioned in the other thread how to host a TWL game but it really is as simple as 1 command and watching for lag for 10-25 minutes. Its not the "lazy" way to host, it is "the" way to host. Not like I don't have successful experience hosting any TWL finals or running TWL or anything, right?

Anyways, if hosts really is the main reason for this simply hire more people... or allow ZHs to host... or give squad captains arena powers in TWL arenas. All better alternatives than reducing the quality of TWLB.

Not that any of this matters since this has once again turned into a 2 squad league and a bunch of background noise, with the best players leaving their underdog teams high and dry in favor of forming supersquads with 20 people on the bench at all times while the rest struggle with the futility of just showing enough players every week. I take comfort in knowing I made the right choice to stay away for good this time

[Turban]

actually, the method you tried to teach had several flaws. it didn't teach anyone how to ..

- how to claim a match
- properly spawn and set the bot if no one else has done it
- find and load the correct twl game ID
- when to zone and start the picks properly
- start two types of logs (?log and *beginlog) in case we need them for appeal
- how to properly greet the players and teams in a professional manner
- making sure they know the rules of TWL and how to act in case a team is breaking a rule
- adding extra time to the teams that request it
- dealing with help and cheater calls if need be
- keep track of the rosters, eligibility rules if you can
- monitor the player lag times
- where to send the logs after the match, and properly ending the game
- what to never do (e.g. how to properly kill the bot so the site and bots don't go crazy)

all in all, hosting is not hard, no. however it is still work that needs to be done correctly and professionally if we want to have a smooth season. if the hosting is done with a half-assed attitude which you tried to teach the players, basically stating that "get someone to set everything up for you, start the game and go afk, hope nothing breaks" then yes, we have found a good way to get multiple appeals in each season all of which we have to accept due to incompetent hosting by someone.

but hey, what do i know .. after all, you are someone who claims to be one of the greatest players and sharks the game has ever seen, a godsend to the game, but always throwing a tantrum when anyone disagrees with you or belittles your skill while you rode the bench in several seasons. on top of that, you pretend to be extremely knowledgeable about every aspect of the game with your arrogant attitude which is rather funny. alas, you are without a doubt a decent player when active, a somewhat great host although with the incapability of taking constructive criticism about anything thanks to your nature, but .. seriously, try to get off that high horse before you fall and hurt yourself.

anyway, the main reason for this change is the fact that it's far more logical (30 minute time slots) and less stressful to deal with for all the involved parties. the players can complain about the games "feeling short", but they will have to adjust to it and take the game seriously since minute one. the other pros mentioned also further fortify the reason as to why the change was made in the first place. it wasn't done on a whim.

[mtine]

but hey, what do i know .. after all, you are someone who claims to be one of the greatest players and sharks the game has ever seen, a godsend to the game, but always throwing a tantrum when anyone disagrees with you or belittles your skill while you rode the bench in several seasons. on top of that, you pretend to be extremely knowledgeable about every aspect of the game with your arrogant attitude which is rather funny. alas, you are without a doubt a decent player when active, a somewhat great host although with the incapability of taking constructive criticism about anything thanks to your nature, but .. seriously, try to get off that high horse before you fall and hurt yourself.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL nailed it. I love this guy now. Go turb!

[Jerome Scuggs]

I'm all for it, there's no way I'm winning TWLB this year, which means whoever does is winning some half-ass 12-minute asterisk of a medal hehehehehe

[Ricko]

I just feel with how inactive the basing scene has become that reducing each match time is a step in the wrong direction - it allows for less cram breaks and excitement and to me, it ruins the chances of come backs (many big comebacks come when a team hits 12 minutes or more and the other team takes the flag room). I just dont like how we will now get even less 8v8 twlb play time and it allows for less action and for less events to happen in the matches.

[Ephemeral]

Ricko,
Your logic of ‘come backs’ is circular. If 15 minutes is better than 12 minutes than that means that 20 minutes is better than 15 minutes. And 30 minutes is better than 20 minutes. In terms of ‘come backs’ increasing the time would always be better.

We could ask the question what is best for TWL? But is this the right question? (It is the right question ONLY if you can make the case that TWL is good for the zone; and that might be a stretch.)

The better question is ‘what is best for the zone’? (Turb didn’t mention this in his ‘pros and cons’.) Are longer TWLB games, when they impact things like Pub, TWD, and events, helpful or hurtful to the zone? Is catering to the handful of vets who only log into the zone during TWL afternoons meaningful enough to disrupt these other zone activities?

Being a big fish in a little pond is basically only ‘fun’ for the big fish. TWLB has had its day and that day has now past. There appears to be a bit of life left in TWLJ and TWLD since they take less players. I say close down TWLB, in my opinion it is not really helping the zone at this point. Having only a small temporary blip on the population radar, while disrupting the rest of the zone and consuming resources for little or no real return, makes this decision fairly straight forward.
Eph

[Zeebu]

Ricko,
Your logic of ‘come backs’ is circular. If 15 minutes is better than 12 minutes than that means that 20 minutes is better than 15 minutes. And 30 minutes is better than 20 minutes. In terms of ‘come backs’ increasing the time would always be better.

We could ask the question what is best for TWL? But is this the right question? (It is the right question ONLY if you can make the case that TWL is good for the zone; and that might be a stretch.)

The better question is ‘what is best for the zone’? (Turb didn’t mention this in his ‘pros and cons’.) Are longer TWLB games, when they impact things like Pub, TWD, and events, helpful or hurtful to the zone? Is catering to the handful of vets who only log into the zone during TWL afternoons meaningful enough to disrupt these other zone activities?

Being a big fish in a little pond is basically only ‘fun’ for the big fish. TWLB has had its day and that day has now past. There appears to be a bit of life left in TWLJ and TWLD since they take less players. I say close down TWLB, in my opinion it is not really helping the zone at this point. Having only a small temporary blip on the population radar, while disrupting the rest of the zone and consuming resources for little or no real return, makes this decision fairly straight forward.
Eph

at least make a new thread instead of totally trying to derail this one. this thread is about 12 minute basing games vs 15 minute basing games. it is not about getting rid of twlb altogether.

[Turban]

the fact is that while 12 minutes may seem short, 15 minutes will also similarly short when comparing it to 20 minutes, and the cycle will endlessly continue if we keep adding more minutes to the time race. it is true that more minutes means a better chance to make a comeback, but the comeback possibility will exist no matter what the time race is set to in our league. the only real issue is that people are used to the time races being set to 15 minutes and nothing more. it may feel annoying to be forced away from your comfort zone, but we genuinely felt like this was a good move for the zone as a whole.

now on the other side of the coin, the side that never gets seems to get discussed, is the fact that adding more minutes to the time race will have a heavy negative impact on our players that have yet to break into the league scene on a higher competitive level. these players are our future and making their experience as fun as possible should be at least one of the priorities. it is a well-known fact that most players do not enjoy getting dominated by stacked teams, and if we add excruciatingly long rounds to the mixture .. well, let's just say it doesn't help the situation at all. now some players do break out of the mold with the hopes of getting better and challenging themselves against the overwhelming odds, but those players are very scarce in our zone. do we need these players of "lesser skill" in our zone? yes we do if we want to see some population and league growth. however, we could also ignore this potential future and only care about the best players and squads, fueling their enormous ego until we finally run out of luck.

now, where should the line be drawn? what should the time race be set to? are we endlessly trying to please the top 5% of our players while neglecting the positive impacts small changes like this could do? i still stand by this change, but it could change if the players really do not give a fuck. it is possible that i am being too optimistic as i'm looking at the big picture. the whole zone from bottom up. its future and the potential of rejuvenation that is still there rather than tunnel visioning on the present time and day.

right now, TWLB is not in that bad of a shape as some may say. sure, as a competition, it is pretty stupid as we only have two teams that have a chance of winning the title barring any miracles, but at the same time we have a rather healthy and competitive mid-to-bottom part of the league which is slowly growing while remaining competitive when facing opponents of their skill level.

[Tiny]

Thought we weren't having twlb this season

[Ricko]

1. For the love of god eph, stop turning every post into how you don't want TWL anymore....you're in a huge minority.

2. Turban - no one has brought up extending twlb beyond 15 minute races except eph in his last post, but that's just him being his theoretical self.

I really don't see ANY benefit behind reducing it from 15 to 12 minute races....at worst we overrun a time slot by what....5 minutes? Given LJ and LD single round matches never last a full 30 minutes any of these matches that were to follow will still be completed in their time slot...only back to back LB games might slow things up, but that's subject to them being an incredibly close match. Overrunning into other time slots is only an issue when we reach the playoffs and games become best of 3.

Basing needs to have a revival, and shortening the actual game play time of competitive 8v8 just seems to have the reverse of a desired affect.