TWLB mapchange, why it is needed

[Sufficient]

Originally posted by Verthanthi
1. I don't beleive you can seperate flag ding points from kill bonus.

2. That would actually strengthen the cram, but apparently thats what we want.

The goal is to change gameplay to allow more variety of ships ... not for the SOLE purpose of elimating the cram. You're not strengthening your cause when you just say 'eliminate cram'.

Why would 2 entrances help cramming? What are you talking about in #2?

This is my suggested change in map:

FR is fully enclosed by outside walls. You know the ears in midbase (NOT the ears in FR) ... well eliminate those midbase ears and continue the wall up and around the top of the base so that there IS room at the top of the FR. Now add an entrance (just a hole right at the center). Of course you can't just make an entrance at the top of the roof bc it's too easy to get in and too close to the flag. Thus you must put some strategically placed walls nearby both right in front of teh entrance on the FR roof, and on the sides of the FR leading to the top of the FR roof.

Other changes in this specific map might include the addition of 4 ears TOTAL in the FR ... there are already 2 ears at the top of the FR ... however, I sorta would like to see 2 more ears at the bottom of the FR .. the 4 ears would then form the corners of a rectanglular FR.

Advantages of this map:
1) nothing in tunnels and spawn area are changed
2) midbase is basically not changed
3) 2 entrances for more open area
4) roof of fr is now TRULY being put to use ...
5) no permanent change in settings other than the map itself

And no, this does not 'eliminate cramming' ... but I believe it encourages the use of other ships and opens the game up for varied action. Also lines will be a viable option since the spiders lining on the blocks are closer to the roof entrance than cramming spiders.

I'll try to draw a pic for you later to take a look at.

[Pure_Luck]

How bout to flagroom from ?go silverbase with a normal rest of the base like ?go base. That would be interesting to see.

[Sufficient]

Originally posted by Pure_Luck
How bout to flagroom from ?go silverbase with a normal rest of the base like ?go base. That would be interesting to see.

Read my forum pm before you go to sleep PL.

[zXer]

I tried starting a *what malladrin would like to see* map 'boki st yle' with side entrances that could allow a lot more fr battles, added 2 spider spots for the two new side entrances and moved the 'lining spider spots' a bit closer to fr and made entrance a bit bigger, tell me what you think, or what could be changed/added/removed.

Click here because image is too large for forum

[Sufficient]

Originally posted by zXer
I tried starting a *what malladrin would like to see* map 'boki st yle' with side entrances that could allow a lot more fr battles, added 2 spider spots for the two new side entrances and moved the 'lining spider spots' a bit closer to fr and made entrance a bit bigger, tell me what you think, or what could be changed/added/removed.

Click here because image is too large for forum

To me, that's too much leeway for the offensive team ... it's just too "open" I guess that's what I mean.

zXer ... you think you could help me with my idea if I give you a good description and maybe a pic? .... I'm not experienced with map-making.

The rough description is in one of my above posts in this thread ... but I can give you a more detailed description if you would like to help me out.

[zXer]

i dont like the idea of having a roof entrance, this isn't pub and we don't want it to become pub. But i do like the idea of the 4 ears, i'll try to work on it tomorrow, now going to sleep, and yet sufficient you can give me a more detailed description of what you want in a pm or ?message, whatever you like, I'll see what i can do.

[Sufficient]

Originally posted by zXer
i dont like the idea of having a roof entrance, this isn't pub and we don't want it to become pub. But i do like the idea of the 4 ears, i'll try to work on it tomorrow, now going to sleep, and yet sufficient you can give me a more detailed description of what you want in a pm or ?message, whatever you like, I'll see what i can do.

Ok ... I'll send/post up my idea for you to take a look at. My reason for a 2nd entrance on roof is the following ... 1) leave as much of the current basing map alone, as much as possible. 2) the current, and future maps MUST be symmetrical 3) since the current map has 1 entrance on the bottom of the FR, the only other way to create a symmetrical base would be to put an entrance on top of the roof.

Expect something soon ... hopefully tomorrow.

[Sufficient]

I have something now if you're here zX ... I have it saved as a bitmap. How do I get it to you? I can't go online ss for 3 weeks ... so 'forum pm' me bout it?

I gotta go to sleep ... but contact me somehow ... I made a rough sketch in ms paint with notes on certain changes/features of the map ... gnite.

[Mayo Inc.]

How long was lining used as THE dominant startegy for league basing and even TWBT? The cram has really only come into play in the last two seasons. Before we go making changes... how about just another season or even TWD to see if changes are really necessary. Give current basing some time.

[Jeansi]

3 entrances is too much. I like silverbase but a side entrance of 3 tiles is too wide. It might be 2 tiles (just for the last bit of it) to make entering a little slower. Otherwise the terr might just push in from one entrance, lay a portal, push i on the other one and then warp back and enter.

[Sufficient]

Originally posted by Jeansi
3 entrances is too much. I like silverbase but a side entrance of 3 tiles is too wide. It might be 2 tiles (just for the last bit of it) to make entering a little slower. Otherwise the terr might just push in from one entrance, lay a portal, push i on the other one and then warp back and enter.

That's why there *sorta* can only be 2 entrances ... and assuming you want to keep things as close to what they are currently as possible, and have it symmetrical ... that means having an entrance at the top of the roof in FR.

[Jonas]

People were whining about mapchanges two seasons ago, when everyone lined. But new basers brought new blood and new ideas. The cram. In two seasons someone else will have figured out some way to break the cram, and yet a better way of defending the flagroom. Stop whining about it, and learn to deal with it. (Damn that sounds stupid coming from someone in Disoblige, but hell, we're trying to learn damnit! Give us time, we're old and conservative.)

[Windreaper]

I think the problem can be solved in the long run without any map changes but if they're to be made, they don't have to be huge. Here are some suggestions.

1) Shave 1-2 tiles off entrance (thus making it 3-4 tiles wide)

2) Make a side entrance similar to ?go silverbase

3) Clip off tiles from the flag wall (the ones that prevent spids from getting repped away from entrance)

Here are my reasonings for the changes:

1) Makes defending sharks more vulnerable but on the other hand increases their field of fire. Also prevents terrs from hanging around too close to the entrance. A change moderately in favor of attacker.

2) Doesn't need explaining, I suppose. Would make cramming less effective and alter games greatly. I'm partially for this change as it would result in more flagroom battles and we all like flagroom battles, right? Again a change that favors the attacker.

3) Removing the tiles would harm cramming (because spids could be repped away from entrance into flagroom) but allows for some new javshots and boosts spid lines greatly. Hurts cramming but is slightly in favor of the defender, IMO.

[Miau]

I think the ideas Wind pointed out seem good but I do not know silverbase so can't really say much from it.

1 and 3 would be such changes that wouldn't actually make that big difference but enough to balance things

Wind, in no. 3 do you mean that the flag platform would just be flat or save some of the side tiles there?

[BLeeN]

A funny idea might be a second flag somewhere =P
You have to cover more ground, thus making the spiders finally move more. Per flag gives 100 points, so owning two will give you the standard 200 we are used to.
(BTW It's just a far off idea)

And yeah, Wind. Shade pointed out a few of those idea's too.

P.S. Good to see you back =)