TWLB mapchange, why it is needed

[bloodzombie]

I think the lag issues are blown way out of proportion.. sure, once in awhile you get a dead ship that blocks a few spider bullets, but since that goes both ways, 99% of the time the better, more prepared team is going to win. And opening the enterance a little bit DOES in fact address that issue by making it less likely for the lesser team to hold the fr because of lag.

[Sufficient]

The way some ppl have been arguing ... it seems like they don't believe the issue is blown out of proportion. But whatever basers test out and like, hopefully will be the best solution.

Just give multiple entrances a change bz.

[wadi]

I think I mentioned this before, but try to think about the feel of TW basing when you suggest multiple entrances. It's about one flag, one fr, one entrance, no middle ground, and no pissing around with a minor entrance. Sure when you play other basing arenas you might see a side entrance, but in TWL it's about that entrance clash. Even taking this situation into account without dealing with what is, and what isn't the "Style" of TW basing, what we're dealing with is essentially a very minor problem, that can most likely be solved without the addition of a second, or third entrance, and definetly without something as radical as an entrance on the roof of all places.

[Sufficient]

Yes, there you have to take into account the spirit of TW. However, does that spirit override progress (not progress for changes' sake, but progress to make the game more fun, more skill)?

To me ... I'd like to see TW get better and better ... not be satisfied with staying the same.

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Also what are your opinions about limiting ship restrictions?

Bc if you want that to be implemented (ie 2 terrs or 3 sharks) ... one entrance probably won't work. Or do you think it will?

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And about the specific map zXer and I are trying to make. I see it as simply adding onto the map. It does not take away or change in any way the original, bottom entrance, though there can be variations like taking away the 2 blocks. It simply adds on a new point of entry which puts a premium on in base defense mvmt (lines can cover both entrances slightly better than crams). If you think that the entrance on top will be too easy to get into, well I promise you that things can be done to map it hard to get into and easier for the defender. With a fully enclosed fr, the whole dimension of the game opens up to the sides of the fr and to the top. If teams want to play only the original, bottom entrance they can ... but I'd hope that both entrances will open up the game more and add to it instead of keeping it more or less at the same level it has been.

Btw wadi, I already gave my argument for a entrance on top of the roof. This is what made me conclude that that was the best place. 1) Assuming that entrances is the best way to improve the map 2) If any entrances should be added, there should only be 2 total, not 3 ... go with less entrances 3) Symmetrical base allows for the only place for this 2nd entrance to be on the top.

[bloodzombie]

I agree that if a second enterance was added, the top is probably the best place.. but any base I've seen with multiple enterances, didn't like. Of course we have at least a couple months before the new TWL starts, and from what myth has done so far, it seems that we'll get a chance to play plenty of alternative bases, and I'd have no problem trying out your roof enterance base, but I just don't see it working. very well.

Also, when you say you want to see progress... I see progress differently, I think. I like when I see new strategies within the same base.. When the base changes, it's like starting all over. That can be fun too, but I don't feel like we were finished with the old base. They don't change the shape of a football field to mix shit up, they develop new strategies instead.

[CrvenBan]

Adding roof entrance without possibility to get to the roof through the mid base but forcing ppl to go all the way around is just useless.

by BeeZee
If you change the base so that AZNawesomeGUYS2445 can force fr battles against teams like disoblige, then something's wrong.

And if AZNawesomeGUYS2445 can hold Pallies out of base because of lag, then I'd say map needs a little tweaking.

...opening the enterance a little bit DOES in fact address that issue by making it less likely for the lesser team to hold the fr because of lag.

[Sufficient]

Originally posted by CrvenBan
Adding roof entrance without possibility to get to the roof through the mid base but forcing ppl to go all the way around is just useless.

That's why the midbase ears would continue to go up and around, encompassing the FR. Or course you can't expect teams to go all the way around to the roof. In my opinion, an encompassed FR and 2 entrances open up the game. Remember how some teams started using javs on the outside of the base to shoot in? Well one weakness of that was the only opening of attack was from the bottom. An encompassed FR changes all that and puts more emphasis on ship movement both on the terr to move his team around, and the individual to make plays. Wb's and lancs also benefit from more open area to shoot and move on the sides and roof.

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No one replied to this:

What are your opinions about limiting ship restrictions?

Bc if you want that to be implemented (ie 2 terrs or 3 sharks) ... one entrance probably won't work. Or do you think it will?

[Kolar]

Out of all the maps I have watched & played, having a 2nd enterance was the only way to stop or weaken the cram. On one of the maps, Fr10 did a little but not as much. I'll get some more screens shots if i'm told where the maps are.

[bloodzombie]

Originally posted by Kolar
Out of all the maps I have watched & played, having a 2nd enterance was the only way to stop or weaken the cram. On one of the maps, Fr10 did a little but not as much. I'll get some more screens shots if i'm told where the maps are.

In my opinion "a little, but not much" is what we need. I LIKE basing the way it is.. if anyone wants drastic change, there's plenty of other zones out there.

[geekbot]

I agree with bz. There is no need to drastically change the map. Few teams, if any, can cram so well that it is unbeatable. Even if they did, it would eventually be broken down in the future by the teams that best apapt. A map change in my opinion might help speed up that process and reduce the power of the current cram.

Gerbz hockey analogy in the other thread makes sense to me. The right way to address it is to make subtle changes (like calling penalties tighter, etc). A few years ago NBA basketball moved the 3-point line closer (map change) to help outside shooters and open up the game.

I think the assault on the FR is a fun part of the game...we don't need to completely do away with it.

[Sufficient]

After all these discussions I would think you'd want to have something more drastic and more effective than just some minor block deletions. Don't you want jav, lanc, wb, and weasel to benefit from a map change? Your minor changes don't help this specific area.

And still no one has commented on what I said before about ship limits ... so those who want ship limits lifted ... tell me, do you think you can handle 3 sharks with 1 entrance?

Btw GB, a 2nd entrance ... isn't that twice the fun with 2 entrances instead of 1?

[bloodzombie]

Originally posted by Sufficient

Btw GB, a 2nd entrance ... isn't that twice the fun with 2 entrances instead of 1?

absolutely not.. it dilutes the whole thing.. instead of one team busting throught he door, you'll constantly have stragglers


as for ship limits, I think the shark one is maybe the only one that should remain, I can see an argument for terrs too... but leave all other ships, including lev and weasel available without limits.

I'd be open to trying 3 sharks though.

we dont need drastic change.. people want more fr battles, personally, I'd say leave it alone, but if the majority want change, let's make subtle changes to take a little of the advantage out of the hands of the defenders.

[wadi]

Originally posted by bloodzombie
In my opinion "a little, but not much" is what we need. I LIKE basing the way it is.. if anyone wants drastic change, there's plenty of other zones out there.

This is about as concise as you can put it. Basing didn't get it's popularity because the maps a POS, so why throw away what works? We're just looking for a small change that brings a little more balance to the O/D equation in the entrance.

[ÆNIMA]

Originally posted by CrvenBan


And if AZNawesomeGUYS2445 can hold Pallies out of base because of lag, then I'd say map needs a little tweaking.

Or that somebody's got really cocky about a squad and really, the squad needs tweaking.

[Mattey]

Originally posted by Sufficient
Teams will always try to defend "choke pts" in fr entrance(s) ... lines, crams, etc. But to me ... that minor change does not address the lag issues brought up. Multiple entrances, however, do, and do it in a way that affects both cram and lines in a fair, unbiased manner. Of course multiple entrances must be thoroughly thought out and tested by basers.

You sound like Fox News.



Removing the two little blocks will make lines and crams harder to perform. How is this biased to either?