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Legal Situation 2018 (Dry Read) (Sleep Fuel)

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  • Legal Situation 2018 (Dry Read) (Sleep Fuel)

    I explained this so many times I am even starting to doubt the realness of it myself. My landlord is billing me $600 for repairs from a flood that happened at my apt, with the stated cause being a bidet that was left on. I initially thought that's what it was, and I even said. However the next day I turned the huge fan off for a break so I can sleep, and I noticed that a plumbing noise was gone. The plumbing noise was very loud and frequent since April (Easter Weekend, when there was a miantenance), and before that existent but not overbearing. But after Easter I went to the Building Management about it 3 times, I filled out a work order once and nobody came. And I'm not saying that idiot me or my idiot roommates didn't damage plumbing at all, I probably don't know half of what was put down the toilet. However, the noise does not occur when I turn on the pipes, and comes from right above me. Whether its caused by the people above me is a different issue.

    After the flood the noise was gone right, I have not heard it since. Another fact is that the bidet handle (it's a handle not a built-in facility) was attached for 4 days after and yet there were no noises. Surely if the bidet was causing pressure on the pipes or something it would continue afterwards. Initially there was some confusion - we thought the bidet might've been "left on" in some other sense (it does have two conditions for being "on": the valve and the dial on the handle) but no the bidet was left running as you might expect and they even have a photograph to prove it. Therefore the cause of the leak was not some internal plumbing damage (by their account) and so, we must inquire as to what caused the plumbing noise to disappear. It's my plan to ask if they made any repairs on the specific day where this happened to see if there is a good explanation. However they are just straight up demanding payment lol.

    In the past I had roommates try to take advantage of a good situation. Unfortunately I was a little naive when it came to people, and I got stuck with some awful roommates who refused to pay rent. As the leaseholder I knew I had every right to kick them out - the law . Of course when it comes to evicting people the police need a little more than Dierienow's word when it comes to evicting someone from their home (they obviously had a place to go anyway) and so when it came to it, the police wouldn't help evict them because they weren't certain about the law. So building management made the suggestion that we "fake moving out". Basically because they weren't on the lease, so they would kick me out, and as long as the others didn't say "you can't do that" everything would be fine and we'd kick them out. But of course there was no need to lie and act like I'm getting kicked out because I knew the law beforehand. But here's the kicker, the only reason we couldn't pay is because they were super strict with the deadlines and if we missed them would receive a $200 fee just like that. At the time I wasn't angry because their attitude helped me with my problem, and it is technically their right. However these people, if any, needed some leeway with their finances although when they spent their money on vapes instead of their kid and meanwhile said they couldn't pay rent due to the baby.. yeah obviously I'm going to go with the landlord on that one.

    My point with that is they don't necessarily understand or care for breaking the law to get what they need done. In fact they'd willingly choose breaking the law over the perfectly legal option I witnessed it personally. And so now I am dealing with those same people keep in mind.

    Since about the time these roommates moved in (a year ago), there have been many other noises from the people upstairs besides plumbing noises. They slam things on the floor, slam the door, construction, drumming, slamming things in the wall. Which I kind of dealt with but it's actually ridiculous, and when I talked to the building management I think she lied and said a family had just moved in upstairs.. when their behaviour is the same from a year ago. So I also want to ask who exactly is upstairs, because they must be avoiding the noise as well and not reporting it also. And seeing as how she is willing to lie about who it is, I'm even more bold. Every single day they are making multiple, multiple banging noises to the point of absurdity, and it happened for at least a year.

    Legal Situation
    ---------------
    I am in Ontario and believe I understand the relevant laws but who knows. Not even the police know apparently. But here is my thought process.

    If I refuse to pay this, the absolute worst they could do is send me a notice to evict for damages.. but the thing is I don't really want to rest my eviction and home status on the chance that whatever kind of judge will believe my story. I believe this is unfair that it could go that far before anyone even heard the case but I guess that's how it is.

    However I also believe that I'm at least partially in the right here. It's not me causing noise, it's the people upstairs. Clearly they heard the noise as well. So why am I forced to report it anymore than the people upstairs or the rest of the floor, who the noise effected. And since that noise is now gone, peculiarly around the time of the flooding, I'd perhaps like to know about THAT mystery before the same shady landlord shows up and starts taking pictures of bidets supposedly left on. I've suffered this noise for months in the full expectation that in the end, me or my roommates were responsible for the damage and I will have to pay $85,000 plus interest. Insurance would cover it you'd expect but I thought they would try to get out of it somehow.

    But I'm thinking, if I can show that I did go and see her before the flood, that I filled out a work order, that this noise was very real, loud, and ended when the flood happened, along with any sort of secondary information like their past legal mishaps, any sort of lie or "weirdness" I can get out of them that might show a willingness to deceive especially regarding the topic, I think that is at least reason enough to question the landlord's claim. The two concepts are at least related somehow, see I am not saying that when a red car drove by my house, the apartment flooded. The red car has no connection to the flooding apartment and therefore it would be ridiculous to believe the car caused the flooding. Yet, to say that a plumbing issue was resolved at the same time that a flood happened, is not a coincidence at all in fact it's quite a logical and relevant line of inquiry to wonder if the two are at all connected.


    Pictures
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    https://imgur.com/a/zJ2B4tV

    https://imgur.com/a/NJOig4j
    https://imgur.com/a/p6pP28a

    Description of Items
    --------------------
    Here I will describe anything relevant to the pictures I linked.

    As you can see the building manager (same one who I approached about plumbing issues and ppl upstairs etc) was aware enough to take pictures of the bidet and the, at MAXIMUM, 1.5 inches of flooding present. However when I asked for pictures of damages to the other units, they said they don't have any and I "should have asked for them before the repairs were made" and yet, nobody asked for a picture of my own apartment WHEN THOSE PICTURES WERE TAKEN it was just done because they thought it was the logical thing to do. But to take pictures of the damages wouldn't be the logical thing to do? Isn't it best practice to take pictures of the damages if possible? I'd also question why wasn't video used instead, since if you have the forethought to enter into the situation prepared, and your phone can take video, why not use that instead? That way she could show the actual scene: me waking up confused, and how she went into the bathroom herself before I was even up.

    Conclusion
    -----------

    Please let me know your thoughts and anything that possibly sticks out to you. I am going to seek free legal counsel on Wednesday just to see what the potential side effects would be if I disputed the invoice. They specialize in tenant-landlord relations so will hopefully help me. Just wanted to get more eyes on this and see what people think.
    Last edited by Dierienow; 06-18-2018, 09:14 PM.
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  • #2
    While I was researching I found a form at the Landlord-Tenant Board that lets you request maintenance and even get refunds if I bring up this incident and they agree with me. Since I don't want to pay $600 and they don't even fix the problem you know. But there's a form I can do, so I'm just going to pay ASAP so I don't cause any upfront problem, then go and take the legal route anyway. Which is the perfect option for me. I wouldn't have discovered that without posting here, writing my thoughts out, etc. Good thing to know if you're in Ontario you can demand that your landlord make repairs through the LTB if your request is reasonable.

    Have a good day!
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    • #3
      I'm convinced I need to do something here. Not only is it the right thing to do to stand up for myself and others and seek the truth/justice, but it could also be very lucrative. I've dealt with noises for months maybe even a year, infuriatingly loud noises - I have damages from hitting the wall back, throwing shit, etc. from when it was the worst. There are many other times where it caused great frustration. My opinion is that my rent abatement (if I can prove the conditions) could be quite significant, maybe around $200 for every month involved off of an $800 apartment. I'm guessing 99.9% of people couldn't stomach the noise like I could, so they wouldn't get to this point, but pretend there has been a significant noise in your house for months (plumbing but also the people making noise a lot), what do you think that is worth? $200 x 6 months AT LEAST is $1200. I'd argue that if there is no explanation for the huge plumbing noise going away around the time of the flood, that the balance of probabilities is actually quite even, so to pay more than $300 of the $600 maintenance fee would be unfair. Also if they accept or take half responsibility for the flood, they should accept half of my own personal damages as well that would've had to be paid for by me thanks to the ADMITTEDLY PLAIN AS FUCKING DAYLIGHT deductible on coverages A-B. So that could possibly be $50-$100 more. If I can convince them my computer was damaged (it was on wet carpet..) it could be a lot more. So it sounds like $1600-$2000+ I could make just by asserting my rights.

      Then there's the issue of the possibility that the landlord committed a crime/fraud, big time. It actually makes my options a little trickier, here's why. Say I wanted to send the landlord company a legal letter demanding some compensation, and why. If I sent the landlord company a legal letter, and implied that landlord might have committed a crime and should pay to make that better, well that's blackmail. At least I think. If the process went on after that it could blow up in my face if it shows that I thought they were committing fraud and then tried to profit off it. But I don't want to have to go to the court as the first thing - I want to send a letter stating my case and why I think it to be incredibly strong, and get some sort of quick settlement. So I'll probably have to tactfully ignore that line of thought of the fraud, unless I am willing to go to court. I am thinking of making my argument very strong and convincing, but leaving the conclusion quite weak (I may think they did it for sure, but will offer a 50/50 to let them have an "out" and not fully accuse anyone of committing fraud). What do you think? I give them Option A, with an out and a known low payment, or give them Option B (court), with no out, and an unknown potentially much higher payment.

      I don't know. I feel like such a boss. I feel like the dog who managed to pick up the cat turd, all I have to do is run with it and chew and I'm golden, the only way to lose is to drop the turd. Thoughts? I was looking at previous Landlord Tenant Board cases online (they're publicly available, or at least some of them) and people have absolutely no idea about the law. 75% of cases are evictions due to non-payment of rent, the other 25% are determined to collectively test the boundaries of human stupidity at any cost to themselves and society. And I only went back to February of this year.

      Another random thing: it seems strange to me, and should seem strange to you, why would someone go through all this effort to make $600 on an insurance scam? I believe I have the answer to that. The flood happened at 4:45 AM, when most people are asleep. My guess is one of the units below had people still awake and they reported the problem immediately, perhaps saving thousands in additional damages. Could also have missed damaging anything important, or the damages were only part of what they're willing to admit, and they paid some of the damages out of fear that if the amount was too high it would be investigated more throughly by insurance and not paid out of pocket like we're doing now.
      Last edited by Dierienow; 06-20-2018, 11:06 PM.
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      • #4
        Just another update.

        I've paid the $600 "repair" and promised my roommate to get the money back. He is a graduate student and is worried that if I try to pursue the issue, something could happen and maybe we are evicted. Who knows. My opinion: shit happens, and I don't want to ruin this guy's education over $600 that he paid for entirely. So I'm holding off on filing that T6 Form. You have a year to file the application after the last event, so if he has moved on within that time I will be free to pursue the matter. I have everything written, recorded, dated, documented that could be. I've written the events out in logical format, putting forth the official version of events before introducing key facts that change the situation entirely. It's an unmitigated disaster on their part I'm basically certain of it. I really tried to convince my roommate that they can't do anything for revenge, like evicting us for some BS, but really I don't know. What I'm thinking about doing is interviewing my roommate at some point, basically cross-examining him on film, so that if he finishes his studies and leaves for his country, it is not like his side is forgotten or no information can be gathered from him.

        Actually just another detail of the case stood out in my mind. On the invoice for the damages, it says that there were damages to units 605, 505, 405, 305, 205, 105, and 112. You might be wondering, how does water teleport over ceiling tiles and damage a random unit? Well here's the kicker. 112 is the Building Office. It doesn't have a number, you have to look at the surrounding doors to determine it's 112. And guess what else. Yep, you guessed it. 112 is on the other fucking side of the building. Now, I am not saying it is physically impossible for water to cling to a surface, and maybe get dragged away. But to go 100ft without any damage between Point A and Point B? I don't know, guys. I think I said it before, but the shady landlord's husband looks fucking scary. Any day now I'll come home, won't look in my roommate's room (never been in there without him, and he leaves the door closed usually), hear his door open and bam, I'm gone. Enjoy or don't the time I have left on this game lol. Russian mob is coming for me GG WP.
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        • #5
          I also tried to convince my roommate that they can't do anything for revenge, like evicting us for some BS! So I will try to do as you said. thanks
          Hello guys, I'm Casey from JSON validator team. Our projects are: roll the ball and slope game . Hope your help, thank you!

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          • #6
            TD Insurance refused to pay out what I was owed (said I had a $500 deductible on a $600 claim when nothing in my forms suggested that) and then dragged their feet on paying me a refund when I cancelled my policy at the correct time. Don't purchase their products unless you really have to.

            Insurance companies would be a great idea if there wasn't such a conflict of interest. They don't make money by paying people. (Especially people with little/no legal options. Poverty = reduced legal rights unfortunately.)
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            • #7
              Give me $2,000 dollars over PayPal and I'll make your problem go away.
              Trench Wars Player

              “To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all.” ― Oscar Wilde

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              • #8
                fuck the governemt
                Leland

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