[UPDATED] Changing 1 Weekday Timeslot for West Coast/Midwest

[ogron]

I did not host games at 6/6.30/7. I am pretty sure my season was the only one with weekgames. It was either 'just' 3-4-5 or 4-4.30-5.

Your TWDT Winter 2011 Rules page says otherwise: http://forums.subspace.tw/showthread...WDT-2011-Rules

Competitions will be held also on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday at 6 pm EST

I also played TWDT Fall 2011 run by Black Mage and the weekday games were 6pm EST as well.

There was also a poll when the population was much larger and the ideal time for Weekday games was determined to be 6pm EST: http://forums.subspace.tw/showthread...uring-the-week

Having one day be 3pm EST makes more sense to me since it covers Euros, but Qan and Beasty seem intent on 9pm EST.

They're both helping with the league and Qan makes the robots go, so I don't really want to fight them on the issue, and frankly I don't know how many players are West Coast or Euro, but my guess is there is a bigger Euro population than West Coast. Without the numbers, I can't say anything definitively.

[Major Crisis]

Your TWDT Winter 2011 Rules page says otherwise: http://forums.subspace.tw/showthread...WDT-2011-Rules



I also played TWDT Fall 2011 run by Black Mage and the weekday games were 6pm EST as well.

There was also a poll when the population was much larger and the ideal time for Weekday games was determined to be 6pm EST: http://forums.subspace.tw/showthread...uring-the-week

Having one day be 3pm EST makes more sense to me since it covers Euros, but Qan and Beasty seem intent on 9pm EST.

They're both helping with the league and Qan makes the robots go, so I don't really want to fight them on the issue, and frankly I don't know how many players are West Coast or Euro, but my guess is there is a bigger Euro population than West Coast. Without the numbers, I can't say anything definitively.

Hmm only one game at 6 pm I see. Didnt remember it like that.

So we keep having those time slots? Atleast switch the different gamestyle up then. Like make thursday Base - javs -wbs.
I would even rotate the gamestyles on sunday every week. Like I stated before, those basing times are impossible for the working europeans. Even on sunday they are tricky. You guys do wanna favour the West coast ppl, but all you do is make the european people quit. For me there is no way I will show on weekdays and the last time slot on sunday is even doubtable. I have seen many more euro's like this.

[kentaro]

I like this idea, maybe break up some of the days... have a monday BD/JD @ 6/630 or something

Hmm only one game at 6 pm I see. Didnt remember it like that.

So we keep having those time slots? Atleast switch the different gamestyle up then. Like make thursday Base - javs -wbs.
I would even rotate the gamestyles on sunday every week. Like I stated before, those basing times are impossible for the working europeans. Even on sunday they are tricky. You guys do wanna favour the West coast ppl, but all you do is make the european people quit. For me there is no way I will show on weekdays and the last time slot on sunday is even doubtable. I have seen many more euro's like this.

[Smoking Blue]

So, I think we're going to modify the timeslots of the Weekdays, and have one of those three days slotted to benefit West Coast/Midwest to better serve the community.


Tuesdays -- 6pm/630pm/7pm EDT (WB/Jav/Base)

Wednesdays -- 9pm/930pm/10pm EDT (WB/Jav/Base)

Thursdays -- 6pm/630pm/7pm EDT (WB/Jav/Base)


Tuesdays and Thursdays will remain the same, but Wednesdays will be 3 hours later to benefit our friends in different time zones.

I'm somewhat skeptical of the ability to generate lots of players at that hour, but I've been lobbied to change one of them, so we'll give it a shot and see how it goes.

qan EDIT: Times have been corrected. My fault! Apologies, guys

i was asked what times would suit me best, and i gave my euro times, but i see nothing of it back here. Some very active and skilled pilots are in a euro timezones. Why even ask me if you not gonna consider our lives in the end?

6pm is just to late for euros, its midnight for us. And most euros are basers, so it will be even later. I was looking forward to playing TSL during the week, i even made some guys sign up who are in the same timezone as me, only to find out they forgot about us.

[Henry Saari]

Suggestion:


Tuesdays -- 6pm/630pm/7pm EDT (WB/Jav/Base)

Wednesdays -- 9pm/930pm/10pm EDT (WB/Jav/Base)

Thursdays -- 3pm/4pm/5pm EDT (WB/Jav/Base)


Like this we could cover the usual euro slots during the week with additional players from North America. After all there's really much activity (wbduel, javduel and go base) everyday from 3pm to 6pm.

[kentaro]

Suggestion:


Tuesdays -- 6pm/630pm/7pm EDT (WB/Jav/Base)

Thursday -- 9pm/930pm/10pm EDT (WB/Jav/Base)

Wednesday -- 3pm/4pm/5pm EDT (WB/Jav/Base)


Like this we could cover the usual euro slots during the week with additional players from North America. After all there's really much activity (wbduel, javduel and go base) everyday from 3pm to 6pm.

fixed

[Zeebu]

have it rotate weekly

week 1 everything is wb-jav-base
week 2 jav-base-wb
week 3 base-wb-jav

so on and whatnot regardless of timeslots
how many weeks does this run?

[Smoking Blue]

Suggestion:


Tuesdays -- 6pm/630pm/7pm EDT (WB/Jav/Base)

Wednesdays -- 9pm/930pm/10pm EDT (WB/Jav/Base)

Thursdays -- 3pm/4pm/5pm EDT (WB/Jav/Base)


Like this we could cover the usual euro slots during the week with additional players from North America. After all there's really much activity (wbduel, javduel and go base) everyday from 3pm to 6pm.

I think what zeebu says on the next page is pretty good, because why does base always have to start as last, as first i can understand that we need a build up pop, but starting base at 4pm est would be good too. jd requires less and so does dd so you can play that always later.

Another thing i would like to add is; In TWDT people cried and got mad cause they had troubles giving up a "game" for one fucking day to be with their mothers. (you all terrible humanbeings) Anyway, in the scenario we have going on here, it is obvious that half the zone is being left out on a weekly/daily basis and for what really? Even with thursday having a regular schedule, the other days are still in no way playable for us. Meaning we will have to adjust our lives for this game so we can play on thursday, which is really a retarded request. Especially with summer time approaching europe and euro activity will get even lower, you expect us to hold back on life for something nobody gains from and is purely fun.

Ive read some shit about people being scared to fight the issue because qan is the coder here and we should apprieciate his work and swallow all his shit when he randomly squirting around. Well yes, i can agree with this, but what is dev without a society to dev for? Without us there would be no dev. Without dev there would still be pubbers. People would host manually, if youve played this game long enough, you know how it was back in the day.

This is not about qan tho, its about the idiots who think they have to be a pussy and lick qans asscrack till he nuts. What you fail to understand is that if you leave out people or just stop their reasons to be active or have some fun online, you will have no1 to dev for and pilots will have no1 to play against.

Stop being a retard and learn to adress issues that concern the whole game.

[qan]

Re: rotating slots, it's been tried in the past with the weekday TWDT games, from what I understand, and it just confuses the hell out of everyone, resulting in lower turnouts across the board. It's also much more difficult to staff. I suggested this at first, too, but didn't understand the problems it comes with.

Anyway, in the scenario we have going on here, it is obvious that half the zone is being left out on a weekly/daily basis and for what really? Even with thursday having a regular schedule, the other days are still in no way playable for us. Meaning we will have to adjust our lives for this game so we can play on thursday, which is really a retarded request. Especially with summer time approaching europe and euro activity will get even lower, you expect us to hold back on life for something nobody gains from and is purely fun.

Problem is, someone will always be left out. Mainland Americas players that are not east coast will be left out on 2 of the 3 days, if they work normal jobs. Ogron's tried hard to create a way to play weekday games that factors in to the quals, but that also isn't unfair to those who can only show up weekends. If you can't show up weekdays or weekends, the reality is, we just don't have a huge population and are doing the best we can.

Ive read some shit about people being scared to fight the issue because qan is the coder here and we should apprieciate his work and swallow all his shit when he randomly squirting around.

This one surprises me. First, hey, I'm an adult, consider myself fairly thick-skinned. You can insult me or make crass demands and I'm not going to get bent out of shape. It's my job to take a lot of crap and say, "OK, I'll try and fix it." Doesn't do the zone any good getting personal about stuff. I know a lot of people get frustrated. It's just about trying to make things work for as large and diverse a group as possible, in the very limited time frame our staff volunteer positions allow.

The job is to try and keep the zone running as best it can, not to have my way (or anyone's way, speaking for other staffers). I'm often wrong, and that's OK. I suggested 3 time zones in the planning stages of this league not because it would let me play -- I can't play any of them from Asia -- but because I think it's more fair than 3 timeslots all geared toward EDT. The Mainland/W Americas and Euro slots may not even be able to get enough playing to make them work, but I hope they do. If they don't, it's back to the drawing board.

Anyway, if anyone's holding their tongue because they think they'll scare me off or that I'll start crying and throw a fit, please free yourself to abuse me in-game or on forums, and to not worry about offending me. I've heard worse, I'm sure. If there's something you need to say, it's important you say it so that everyone can think it over, even if you're kind of a jerk about it.

[Henry Saari]

Timeslots have been corrected. For Thursdays we will be trying more euro friendly timeslots and they are the following: TSLD at 3pm, TSLJ at 4pm and TSLB at 5pm.

[Smoking Blue]

Re: rotating slots, it's been tried in the past with the weekday TWDT games, from what I understand, and it just confuses the hell out of everyone, resulting in lower turnouts across the board. It's also much more difficult to staff. I suggested this at first, too, but didn't understand the problems it comes with.


Problem is, someone will always be left out. Mainland Americas players that are not east coast will be left out on 2 of the 3 days, if they work normal jobs. Ogron's tried hard to create a way to play weekday games that factors in to the quals, but that also isn't unfair to those who can only show up weekends. If you can't show up weekdays or weekends, the reality is, we just don't have a huge population and are doing the best we can.


This one surprises me. First, hey, I'm an adult, consider myself fairly thick-skinned. You can insult me or make crass demands and I'm not going to get bent out of shape. It's my job to take a lot of crap and say, "OK, I'll try and fix it." Doesn't do the zone any good getting personal about stuff. I know a lot of people get frustrated. It's just about trying to make things work for as large and diverse a group as possible, in the very limited time frame our staff volunteer positions allow.

The job is to try and keep the zone running as best it can, not to have my way (or anyone's way, speaking for other staffers). I'm often wrong, and that's OK. I suggested 3 time zones in the planning stages of this league not because it would let me play -- I can't play any of them from Asia -- but because I think it's more fair than 3 timeslots all geared toward EDT. The Mainland/W Americas and Euro slots may not even be able to get enough playing to make them work, but I hope they do. If they don't, it's back to the drawing board.

Anyway, if anyone's holding their tongue because they think they'll scare me off or that I'll start crying and throw a fit, please free yourself to abuse me in-game or on forums, and to not worry about offending me. I've heard worse, I'm sure. If there's something you need to say, it's important you say it so that everyone can think it over, even if you're kind of a jerk about it.

In your first qoute you say some people are always left, but youre wrong here, its basically the same people in this case over and over because anyone who is not in a euro based time zone is not affected by the zones active hours. Only euro based players have limited time to actually have competitive games going on, meaning, around 4pm est when the zone/game starts to become more populated, its already around 22:00 for euro based players, for some later for some earlier. leaving us with only a few hours/games to play in the late night while we have work/study/life the next day. We are not just being left out in this league but basically for ever since this game declined in population. Dont forget to remember that when euro based players are gaming its also with most of the regular other timezone players, who if we look at it, are never left out as they have no issue with the timezone of the zones activity. I could go in depth about this but i think youre smart enough to understand this.

As you see the issue lays far deeper than you are thinking about it.

And i dont see anyone offending y ou for the great work youve done, other zones staff should take example from you imo. but as you see the issue is actually greater than you seem to understand or seem to care for. And the fact you have staffers who dont want to confront you about it, pretty much shows that you have terrible people working under you.

[kentaro]

It seems the population is so low; times that were earlier were tried in the past and did not work. There just is not enough euros that play consistently. If the time doesnt work for you or you need to adjust your life for it, dont play the game. Is it really a big deal to miss a couple games of tw?

anyways it seems the times have been changed for thursdays. Maybe if were lucky it wont be half forfeits with the rest of the games being ricko $flabby$ -enyce- attacks & ossify + pub 01. Guess time will tell, hope im wrong.

[Henry Saari]

Sole reason for changing to earlier timeslots for Thursday was the fact that I've witnessed most of the action in TW taking place between 3-6pm during the week as that is the only few hours of the day when we have some euros online AND some NA based players online. Now we have two days of the week (Tuesday and Wednesday) when majority of games will be played by players who are able to be online 6-10pm EST which is very late for all euros and two days for both in ideal situation (Thursday and Sunday).

[Attacks]

Im dumb went to this post for seeing game times

[qan]

In your first qoute you say some people are always left, but youre wrong here, its basically the same people in this case over and over because anyone who is not in a euro based time zone is not affected by the zones active hours. Only euro based players have limited time to actually have competitive games going on, meaning, around 4pm est when the zone/game starts to become more populated, its already around 22:00 for euro based players, for some later for some earlier. leaving us with only a few hours/games to play in the late night while we have work/study/life the next day. We are not just being left out in this league but basically for ever since this game declined in population. Dont forget to remember that when euro based players are gaming its also with most of the regular other timezone players, who if we look at it, are never left out as they have no issue with the timezone of the zones activity. I could go in depth about this but i think youre smart enough to understand this.


As you see the issue lays far deeper than you are thinking about it.

The EU player problem has been a big one, starting from when the server was moved to the US, IMO. Then lag limits were tightened over time in competitive areas, and some people who used to have 40ms ping were suddenly dealing with unplayable lag. From there the decline began, and the server took on a decidedly NA bias.


Making Sunday games (late Sunday night) can be a huge strain on EU players, I realize. As can even making a Euro-focused weekday slot that still can be played by others. It's something a lot of people have thought about, how to stay inclusive and fair but still get games going. And yes, I agree it's a huge issue. But as far as I've seen, there's just no great solution. Other than at least trying to offer times where people can play from various parts of the world, and seeing if enough show to make it worthwhile.


The point I was making with some people always being left out was that regardless of the time slots, someone does get left out, and it's not always EU players. For example, in the case of TSL, for weekday games, many mainland NA players are left out by both an EU-playable time and an East-Coast time. Also, let's not forget AU/Asia, where I live. It's even worse than EU; there are basically no times I can play. Last TWDT I woke up on Monday morning at 7am just in time to see the -B finals finish. EU players might need to stay up often very late on a work night, but at least they do have that option. I'd have to set my alarm for 4am to SS before work. (I guess I could do that, but my life already revolves too much around SS.)

And i dont see anyone offending y ou for the great work youve done, other zones staff should take example from you imo. but as you see the issue is actually greater than you seem to understand or seem to care for. And the fact you have staffers who dont want to confront you about it, pretty much shows that you have terrible people working under you

Well, nobody actually works under me, because we're all just volunteers. We do our best with what we have, but staffing isn't anyone's job, and a lot of the time it's more trouble than it's worth to bring something up. I'm also only on during odd times, meaning I'm not an easy person to get in touch with. But more to the point, why would it be important to bring it up to me in particular? Beasty and I try to help coordinate all aspects of the zone, but the point is to try and make things better, not make arbitrary decisions and hold your ground to feel important on a spaceship game. We work as a team or not at all. Here's a quick timeline of things, to give you an idea' Ogron put forth 3 EDT weekday slots. I suggested 3 different slots and possibly rotating slots. He pointed out that rotating slots are overly confusing and didn't work in the past -- a fair point -- and also expressed serious doubt that we could get enough to show for any other slots. That also may be very true ... it's yet to be seen. I talked with other staffers and we felt it was both fair to try, and worth trying at least one extra time slot. Since East Coast players could also play another NA slot, we thought that, having to choose only oneit would be better to try the NA slot. (It was hard enough to get Ogron to agree to even one slot change, as he's very convinced none of these slots will work; he has far more experience here and he may very well be right -- but, plenty of people also disagree with this view, and we also lose next to nothing by trying one week). This thread was posted as a result of that exchange.

Then Beasty had the idea of a survey of when specific players are able to play, and many staffers put in a lot of hard work compiling this information into a spreadsheet. It was found that some players could only play certain slots, in particular EU players. Hard data seemed to show that it's worth trying a 3rd alternate slot. That's where we stand now. If some of the slots have a poor showing, as a community, we'll have to look at changing things around. To start, though, we should at least give the appearance of attempting to be fair.