The Problem With TWDT

[Black Mage]

But dont worry, when I die a heroic death in rl, my last words will be "everyone play subspace!!!!"... Im sat here right now ready to shout it out if I feel my time has come.

Thanks for taking one for the team, Ardour.

[Refer]

But dont worry, when I die a heroic death in rl, my last words will be "everyone play subspace!!!!"... Im sat here right now ready to shout it out if I feel my time has come.

I knew it.

[freddie]

So we should just kill Ardour for free advertisement? :fear:

[Ardour]

Ive an xbox, but i get bored of the games. Every game i play thought process goes like this:

Play singple player mode - this would be cool to play online against others.
Play online - ooo this would be cool if people formed squads and did squad battles 4 vs 4 against each other in some kinda league, then the best could take part in a more professional league. blah, to much work, il just go play spaceships.

I still think the problem is advertisement. Ive never seen this game advertised the whole time Ive been playing it in any form of media. I found it because I was at a friends house and it was love at first sight. All these tiny spaceships flying around in public... "what all those are other people that you can kill and the whole thing is free!?"

But dont worry, when I die a heroic death in rl, my last words will be "everyone play subspace!!!!"... Im sat here right now ready to shout it out if I feel my time has come.

[ignite ignite]

quit ss, 3D games are the best.

[Exalt]

The Problem I see here is: How do we market a 14 year old game to a market of young players who only want to get on their xbox 360 and play Halo? I dont think we will ever be able to draw in large numbers of new players to subspace simply because those who have not played this game and know nothing about it really have no real interest in playing a low tech game like this.

I agree. You guys act like we are the only zone, but we aren't. I'm almost positive every zone in this game has tried something similar, and nothing new has happened.

All the people in pubs were old vets that got the random email from pure_luck or w/e saying "COME BACK TO TRENCHWARS!". I checked one day, its the truth. They are not new players, they are very old players that were always pubbers.

THis game is as good as dead really.

[Kid Kaos]

The Problem I see here is: How do we market a 14 year old game to a market of young players who only want to get on their xbox 360 and play Halo? I dont think we will ever be able to draw in large numbers of new players to subspace simply because those who have not played this game and know nothing about it really have no real interest in playing a low tech game like this.

[Voth]

I offered....no one seemed interesting...hell I have even been open entirely to suggestion this entire time encouraging people to criticize the league, to offer suggestions, and outside of a select few people I have gotten jack shit for feedback. So how am I supposed to make this league more available and friendly without some player feedback? I mean the entire reason that izor and wark were going to run this league this season was because I didn't have a plethora of hours to sink into it, and I still don't. I do the best I can and people seem to enjoy it. Next season it will hopefully all be fixed if Ardour is able to finish the TWLM style rating system and new site, but that's still an unknown. Hell there is a strong possibility that I will retire by next summer.

Anyways here's the two main problems with why fledgling players don't get to be added. 1) caps want to win. Flat out, they want to win and they want the best they can get on their roster. If that means filling a few roster spots with fodder who will never play to maximize their cap availability then so be it. They aren't going to play the crappy players because they don't have the same intentions that I do. I establish a set of rules that encourages the development of players, whether it be vets developing skills in a new league or a league they are long since removed from or new players rising up in the game; that is the goal of this league from my point of view, and the way the rules are meant to be established. The goal of the caps is to win, bend the rules, get the best team, and win. Or at least that's the way most of them for the past 2 seasons ran their teams. 2) support. This league doesn't get even close to half the support that TWL or TWD get. It is unknown to probably half the zone, hell 1/4 of staff didn't even know what it was. I solo'd the league last year (luckily this year things got better), however this year advertisement is down substantially. It doesn't reach the pubbers, the rules have holes because I swear to god I am the only person to read them, and we don't nearly get the hosting turnout that TWL does (although even that is poor). You have to understand that this is a subsidiary league, it is not TWL or TWD which define Trench Wars competition. This is a space filler league, and until it is recognized by staff and the zone as anything more, it will remain that way. You get me the support TWL has, and I will hand you a golden league; otherwise I will keep plugging away hoping to generate a fun league that people enjoy during their break between TWL's.

I'm really not criticizing you directly Summa, I do appreciate the work you put into this league, and I know you're doing what you can with what the zone is giving you to work with. This isn't an attack on you; it's more an examination on what needs to change in order to propel this league from a time filler for competitive players to a league that will bring more competition to the zone by heavily including a new player aspect to the league.

[Eeks]

I have to agree with voth on the 6* rule being dumb. I mean it says "started 1-2 TWL games" and I've played around 20 twlbs.

[Ardour]

3/4 of them didn't know how to change arena, pm, squadpm, squadjoin, and of course didnt know what twl was (which is tw's main attraction) etc after playing for like 2 days until I told them irl what to do lol

After a month of playing public I was told elim exsisted. When I went back to playing public, I never knew there was more than 1 public until I was stranded in an empty public and I asked a passer by where everyone was. If you introduce people to all aspects to quickly, theyll get bored of it faster. Plus its an overload. Ive tried many of my friends with this game but none have liked it at all. Even the 2 people that I knew from day one have both quit over 2 years ago. Im only still playing now because of a small few people that still play that Ive become good friends with. Its all about connections! The only way to progress from public is to be a part of a squad. But now with twdt, it helps introduce old and new players to each other that never would of had a reason to speak before.

I think it should be increased to 7 vs 7 however. I would like to see it be a little different to TWL and TWD. Plus also make it so 2 6*'s have to play. At the moment, the only thing killing my turnout is the only taken part in 2 league matches rule. Other than that, Im pretty pleased with my players and there showing. APART FROM trenchwars #1 Lil Bi*ch Vash whos to scared to turn up because "your team sucks". Hes only prepared to login if hes surrounded by top players. True sign of a top warbird...

Next season it will hopefully all be fixed if Ardour is able to finish the TWLM style rating system and new site, but that's still an unknown.

I know Ive not been able to do any work on it lately because of work, but Ive had this week off and have spent nearly every day working on it. The players and squads admin management side is pretty much finished. Ive tried to contact you or HMS a few times in game but neither of you 2 are ever alive when Ive tried.... Just going to get back to work on the site now and start/finish match reporting so the forums wont have to be used any more and then statistics are perm saved. (login works for all players but captains/assistants/players have no functionality as of yet. They can however click "view profile" and see there own stats from last season, but thats it so far)

[Summa]

Who says you can't hold scheduled scrimmages against other TWDT teams

I offered....no one seemed interesting...hell I have even been open entirely to suggestion this entire time encouraging people to criticize the league, to offer suggestions, and outside of a select few people I have gotten jack shit for feedback. So how am I supposed to make this league more available and friendly without some player feedback? I mean the entire reason that izor and wark were going to run this league this season was because I didn't have a plethora of hours to sink into it, and I still don't. I do the best I can and people seem to enjoy it. Next season it will hopefully all be fixed if Ardour is able to finish the TWLM style rating system and new site, but that's still an unknown. Hell there is a strong possibility that I will retire by next summer.

Anyways here's the two main problems with why fledgling players don't get to be added. 1) caps want to win. Flat out, they want to win and they want the best they can get on their roster. If that means filling a few roster spots with fodder who will never play to maximize their cap availability then so be it. They aren't going to play the crappy players because they don't have the same intentions that I do. I establish a set of rules that encourages the development of players, whether it be vets developing skills in a new league or a league they are long since removed from or new players rising up in the game; that is the goal of this league from my point of view, and the way the rules are meant to be established. The goal of the caps is to win, bend the rules, get the best team, and win. Or at least that's the way most of them for the past 2 seasons ran their teams. 2) support. This league doesn't get even close to half the support that TWL or TWD get. It is unknown to probably half the zone, hell 1/4 of staff didn't even know what it was. I solo'd the league last year (luckily this year things got better), however this year advertisement is down substantially. It doesn't reach the pubbers, the rules have holes because I swear to god I am the only person to read them, and we don't nearly get the hosting turnout that TWL does (although even that is poor). You have to understand that this is a subsidiary league, it is not TWL or TWD which define Trench Wars competition. This is a space filler league, and until it is recognized by staff and the zone as anything more, it will remain that way. You get me the support TWL has, and I will hand you a golden league; otherwise I will keep plugging away hoping to generate a fun league that people enjoy during their break between TWL's.

[Black Mage]

I think one of the biggest problems is the Free Agents who qualify as 6* or below. I proposed a new system that could be implemented next year wherein all free agents are rated like the draftees, and the bidding for them starts at their rating. The draft should be the backbone of adding quality players to your team, not free agency.

The problem with adding more requirements of whom you can and cannot play per week is the risk of not enough people showing up (ala PUMA this last week) and/or diluting the quality of play/competitiveness.

[Voth]

So from that post, I gathered that you don't think TWDT is a good way to bring new players to a competitive level. I still don't see a good reason why. The rest of it is BS - a TWDT team can throw in a practice here and there in javduel, wbduel, or base. People aren't tied up 24/7 with TWD.

[Burnt]

lol? Who says you can't practice during the week?

Cause everyone is playing with their TWD squads during the week.

the normal squads are on the back-burner for the most part because everyone is so caught up in the success of their EGDL team.

EG doesn't have something like TWD though. TWD is the backbone of Trench Wars and the only way to get people to focus on their TWDT squads would be make TWD a draft league as well. This would ruin TWD as we know it because players like to be on squad with their friends and most don't want to be on 2 or 3 league squads. I would love for my TWDT to all join the same TWD squad but too many are loyal to their TWD squads and they're also in the middle for qualifying for TWL. Anyways I don't even have any real newbies on my roster for TWDT because there were more than enough vets to fill my roster with.

Many TW players will confirm that they have been drawn into EG flagging through the draft league. Just to name a few: MHz, a2m, Cig Smoke, Endangered. Finding a newbie with potential is a top priority for EG squads, because they can train them up and then that player is loyal to them. You don't see this with the TW players... it's incredibly hard to break into the competition here, and that is just wrong.

Plenty of players from other zones have been drawn into TW through TWD, that's why we don't really need something like TWDT to do that.

[Voth]

lol? Who says you can't practice during the week? Who says you and your team can't get together and play wbduel, javduel, or base as a team? Who says you can't practice fundamentals in private arenas as a team? Who says you can't hold scheduled scrimmages against other TWDT teams during the week by starting up wbduel2, javduel2, base2?

In EG, during the Draft League, the normal squads are on the back-burner for the most part because everyone is so caught up in the success of their EGDL team. EGDL teams play pickups with eachother all week long, play as a team in pubs all week long, hold practices during the week to practice fundamentals, and even show up at least an hour early to matches for a practice.

I'm surprised you would say something so completely wrong, Burnt.