idea on free agency

[Zeebu]

since last year kinda turned into a shit show at times with peoplebetting stupid amounts on players, change it up a bit this time. it would still be possible to bet stupid amounts, but only once. why not set it up to be a closed bid instead of open? one of the caps contact a twdt op that they are interested in bidding on a player and then the op starts a thread and gives a time limit when all bids must be in. highest bid takes it. in case of a tie you could ask the caps that tied to resubmit or then go to an open setup.

just a thought. would need ops and caps to weigh in on this.

[Summa]

since last year kinda turned into a shit show at times with peoplebetting stupid amounts on players, change it up a bit this time. it would still be possible to bet stupid amounts, but only once. why not set it up to be a closed bid instead of open? one of the caps contact a twdt op that they are interested in bidding on a player and then the op starts a thread and gives a time limit when all bids must be in. highest bid takes it. in case of a tie you could ask the caps that tied to resubmit or then go to an open setup.

just a thought. would need ops and caps to weigh in on this.

this has definitely been something that i have been meticulously trying to fix. this is indeed one of the proposed ideas, however there are some downsides to it. 1) it puts extra stress on me :P 2) if there is a closed system vs a transparent system, then there can be screams of conspiracy and such. i would need the utmost trust from those in the leagues that i would act fairly. not sure if people are willing to give that much trust....or better yet, they would be willing to give that much trust until it screws them 3) it doesn't give the captains any indicator of if they are ahead/behind, so if someone really wants a player they will either get screwed for not knowing they are ahead/behind or they could potentially just bet an absurdly high amount to guarantee victory.

the two systems that i am working with currently are the previous season's one with improved rules for dropping/adding for lower cost and removing bid sniping. the other is similar to what you said. it is a system where someone will open a bid, then caps who want to bid submit privately to me a response bid. then every 24 to 48 hrs i would log on and post in the forums an update of who is leading and what the leading bid is.

any other ideas before i finalize this tonight or tomorrow?

[Zeebu]

i agree that this would be more stress towards you, but last time was just... blah. it was funny to watch at times, but allowed abuse and stupid things like swooping in at the last minute before the cutoff and stealing it.

some ideas on a closed system. when the player is successfully had, you could post the bids that were given? some caps might not like seeing that they won a bid by 15*s or something, but oh well. the closed bidding system is to pay what you think will get the player. some strategy in it.

another thing that was unfortunate was the dropping of players. dropping some that were inactive for their *s was great. dropping some because they were bad and you werent going to play them OR you overpaid greatly on free agency was silly. i dont know who it was, but the person on the signup list that was a 4/3/3 or something... does anyone really expect them to play? i doubt it unless theyre just trying to scrape together enough players. could the system have an additional twist in it to gain bonus stars? 6* is kinda the cutoff. what if you play a 5* or less during a match? for each * they are below 6 you could give the team another * in cap room. with a max of a number of stars per week if it looks like it could be a problem. that would definately give some incentive on getting some lower stars into games. this could be abused and would be if you allowed subs to be allowed. if that was the case the lowest starred person there would get subbed into the game after it is already won or lost. so that would have to be addressed.

i can come up with more and maybe organize my thoughts a bit better later on.

[not in game]

How about go eBay style where the caps can name their max bids if they'd like?

So as eBay goes, while the highest bidder wins, he only has to pay 1 more than the second highest max bid. Of course, I think each cap's max bid would have to remain secret til the end. Oh, and yes, definitely post each cap's max bid so that there's no feeling of mistrust.

I like zeebu's ideas. Though, I would imagine humid's job would be quite a bit more complicated.

[Summa]

How about go eBay style where the caps can name their max bids if they'd like?

So as eBay goes, while the highest bidder wins, he only has to pay 1 more than the second highest max bid. Of course, I think each cap's max bid would have to remain secret til the end. Oh, and yes, definitely post each cap's max bid so that there's no feeling of mistrust.

I like zeebu's ideas. Though, I would imagine humid's job would be quite a bit more complicated.

i thought about this as well, but i fear that some captains will simply bet 1 below people's max bid in order to drive the cost up and be a spiteful dick. i really liked this idea, but there are gaps. if they submit their max bid to me in private, i suppose it could work; but it would depend highly on my activity and availability which i can't guarantee 100% of the time. i am not a bot afterall....i am close, but no cigar.

[Zeebu]

i thought about this as well, but i fear that some captains will simply bet 1 below people's max bid in order to drive the cost up and be a spiteful dick. i really liked this idea, but there are gaps. if they submit their max bid to me in private, i suppose it could work; but it would depend highly on my activity and availability which i can't guarantee 100% of the time. i am not a bot afterall....i am close, but no cigar.

what about a small number of group accounts that all the ops have access to? twdtop1 twdtop2 etc...

caps could send an email to all the acounts and whoever is around can log onto them. might only need one account but a second wouldnt hurt incase someone forgets to logout. unless that doesnt matter?

[Black Mage]

We're trying to get the website up and running with a system to bid on players for the caps which would be a closed auction system but would allow for transparency since its the server not Humid keeping the bids. Not sure if it will be done in time, though. Prod Zazu about it.

[Ambrosia]

I see some decent thought processes here but this is really just making it too complex and silly in a way.
If you really want 2 stop insane bids from being places the entire free agency process, reduce the overall salary cap, so it won't be possible to do it. Also, if a person CAN do it, kudos to that person for having such a strategic draft that they could actually draft a decent team and have enough space to make insane bids in free agency.

[Black Mage]

I see some decent thought processes here but this is really just making it too complex and silly in a way.
If you really want 2 stop insane bids from being places the entire free agency process, reduce the overall salary cap, so it won't be possible to do it. Also, if a person CAN do it, kudos to that person for having such a strategic draft that they could actually draft a decent team and have enough space to make insane bids in free agency.

The problem really wasn't insane bids. It was dick moves like bidding then retracting after someone overbid them, or editing bids after the fact. There were also problems with the time on the forums and unclear whether the last bid was at 11:59 or 12:00 for sniping, etc.

However, it looks like the website should be up and running in time (thanks Zazu), so the system will probably be captains placing bids for free agents on the website, which should solve all of the problems.

[Exalt]

The only complaint I had last season was when you had people like ignite and jaa retracting original bids and artificially raising prices for players beyond what they are worth. They would bet an insane amount on someone, and another cap would bid higher, and then they kept it going. Eventually, they would remove all previous bids by editing posts and then the winner would have bet a shit ton on a player that isn't worth it... and also negating that player's possible 6* rule status in the process. It was just bad sportsmanship, and I'm not saying any of these caps will do it (since ignite kind of instigated it all being the supreme douchebag that he always was), but I'd like to see something done to prevent that in the future.

[Summa]

I haven't written the rules up officially yet, but this is how free agency is going to work:

Captains can bid via the twdt website (www.trenchwars.org/twdt/) by sigining into their names and accessing the bidding panel (gotta confirm that this all works 100%, but it seems to be functioning well as is). You may input a bid on people on the waivers/free agency list, then submit it. You will not see the bids of the other captains, only I will be able to see all of the bids. However, you can edit your bid at any point during the week if you feel it is insufficient or if you have more to spend. At some point mid-week (probably wednesday or something) I will post a thread of all of the active bids and who is leading them and with what bid. Then bidding will close as normal, I will announce who has won what bids and move people to their respective teams.

I know this isn't exactly an ebay system or the ideal of transparency, but its the best that zazu could manage with the given time, and I don't plan on letting his efforts go to waste. I am still open to critiques and suggestions that can be fixed by monday, but this is likely the system we will run with.

Zazu said he is capable of doing the following with little effort:
make caps able to see eachother's bids
make it so bids are unable to be edited

Thanks for all the input
Humid

[Ambrosia]

please make it unable to edit bids. if the problem in previous season was bid retractions just make it impossible for people to do so. people shouldn't have a problem with this, it just makes captains make sure they are sure before putting a bid in, shouldn't be too hard.

[Black Mage]

At some point mid-week (probably wednesday or something) I will post a thread of all of the active bids and who is leading them and with what bid. Then bidding will close as normal, I will announce who has won what bids and move people to their respective teams.

I'm a little confused and I have a feeling some caps will be also. Does the bidding close as soon as you announce who is leading, or is there a period where caps are aware of others bids before it closes? If its the latter, it seems like it undermines the whole effort to defeat sniping.

[Summa]

I'm a little confused and I have a feeling some caps will be also. Does the bidding close as soon as you announce who is leading, or is there a period where caps are aware of others bids before it closes? If its the latter, it seems like it undermines the whole effort to defeat sniping.

The problem of sniping was only a problem because european (and even some american/canadian captains) would go to sleep or go out on friday night thinking that their team was all hunky dory, only to come back and see a bunch of 11:59 bids steal the majority of their players.

What is going to happen here is this:

Captains submit bids monday/tuesday/wednesday
Humid logs on and sees who is winning all the bids
Announces it on wednesday so that those who that people can understand where they stand and if they need to dish out extraneous bids on "inconsequentials" to fill their team space.
This provides 2 days to edit bids/adjust strategy.
All captains will know is their own bid, who is leading on wednesday, and who wins. That a preventative measure in my head to what I viewed the problem of bid sniping to be.

[Black Mage]

Alright fair enough, sounds good.