Appeals Moving Forward

[Tiny]

This thread is not to appeal or argue the appeals already granted or denied, but to help us moving forward as what is done is done.

Willby, I thank you for all that you are doing, but someone running the league with 0 dueling league experience and probably limited twlb experience, I feel you are under qualified for handling appeals and judgements based on real game experience. Just from your response "Playing 4v5 is damn inconvenient, but not game breaking", I see the inability to tell what can and can not turn a game in a dueling match and it speaks volumes on this. I think we should have maybe 3-4 people in each league on a council to handle these situations. This would also take burden off of you. It would also allow people to contribute more and allow for people to see less biased responses and probably less bitching knowing people from different squads are reviewing this. Just my thoughts from running twdt/twl multiple times each, but i digress/.

[Riverside]

What an extremely weird reactionary thread.

As someone who was there when everyone lagged out and isn't playing in TWTD, it's easy to see that Willby's ruling made sense. He doesn't control the server. Lag happens, shit sucks.

It's weird because you're passive aggressively attacking a volunteer who was competent enough at his role as league OP to even give you a full on explanation on why your appeal was rejected. Cmon man.

[Grasps]

I have to agree with Riverside on this one Tiny.

This thread is out of line--Willby's ruling was fair and he's more than competent in all divisions to make fair & honest judgements concerning appeals in the future. I've seen how you operate Tiny and I can appreciate Willby is transparent and forthcoming on his decisions! I'd rather have Willby at the helm that you any day and think he's doing a tremendous job. Doesn't deserve asshats like you trying to undermine him by calling him out the way you did here insinuating that he just is too inexperienced to make these calls compared to you as you've ran leagues before and know more about the game. Get a grip.

Your appeal was not only one of the weakest I've seen come forward in a long time but even still it got the time of day and was ruled justly. Your lineup played bad and you would of lost even if you didn't lag out. That's the truth man. Suck it up and move on.

I still think you are a great guy Tiny but this thread doesn't capitalize on your wonderful qualities as a standup person and player that I've come to know and respect over the years.


Kind of off topic'ish but this thread reminds me..

I think we need to put an appeal cap on teams (say 1 per regular season and 1 more post season) Similar to how the NFL has challenge's that are limited per game so coaches can't spam refs with challenges for every other play.

Maybe if a team wins the appeal they don't lose their chance to appeal an another game later but if they lose it that's it until post season when they are granted another? Seems like I see the same group of people every season trying to challenge games and while it's not bad, it takes a lot of time away from volunteers to investigate them and make a verdict on them on top of re-scheduling replays in.

Just food for thought!

[Tiny]

Your lineup played bad and you would of lost even if you didn't lag out. That's the truth man.

This is the rationale i'm talking about. Someone talking about something they didnt see based on terrible presumptions. "You wouldn't have won a tie game even if you didnt lag out." I dont know what to say to that. Maybe the game was lost at 0-0 too, it was also tied. Like i said, needs to be a group of people unbiased, and experienced in different leagues, just like the raters we have for each league each season each year. Guess i'm terrible for saying that. Oh well. Hope I didnt hurt any feelings!

[Tiny]

The decision on the appeal might have been correct, but the grounds for it seem severely faulty. I don't know how you can make an argument that a 9.5* player leading his team in kills in a close game being eliminated due to lag is not gamebreaking. And if the lagout can be directly attributed to the server crash, then it seems to be pretty cut and dry..
I'm also not sure what the score was when Tiny was eliminated, but just because the final outcome was -6 differential, that doesnt really take into account what could have happened had he been able to remain in and potentially make an impactful kill or two to change the tide of the match.

I'm not even saying the appeal shouldn't have been rejected. It's nearly impossible to determine or quantify how much the server lag impacted individual players and squads disproportinately. I just don't agree with the logic used for the denial.

You obviously didn't see this person's response either who also didn't agree with the logic used. He a bad man too!? Shame

[Gkyde1234]

I agree willby blew that appeal should be fired. The rules use to be pretty specific about this stuff too what happened I look and theres no rules on if a server spikes or number of lagouts allowed if they are suppose to count as deaths etc.

[MHz]

If I have any criticism of Willby it would be that he speculated about the possible impact of a +1 lagout on the game.

That's not a speculation that needs to be made. This appeal can simply be rejected at face value (sorry Tiny).

You lagged out and you got the +1 death - that's called the game of subspace as its played in trenchwars in 2020. You cannot deprive the opposing team of a win because somewhere between your computer and the server, a packet skipped or was lost. What's to say I can't just tug my ethernet cable whenever I want a replay? Awarding appeals for +1 lagouts is basically a license to appeal every game.

Primacy must always be given to the result as it happened, barring some human catastrophe, obvious rule breaking or drastically unplayable circumstances. Say someone prizes themselves with super, or everyone has 1000ms ping, or cyclone is added into the game.

The idea that - unless games are played in perfect conditions - then they should be replayed, is patently absurd. Tennis matches are played in wind, rugby matches are played in rain. Up until the advent of VAR, professional football matches were often won and lost on provably offside, or otherwise illegal, goals. The late Maradonna scored a fucking world cup goal with his arm. Were any of these games retrospectively appealed? No. Once the final whilstle is blown, the result stands.

[beam]

agreed the reasoning willby gave was obviously bad but the appeal was ridiculous and anybody would have denied it

[Rab]

Top post mhz

[Gkyde1234]

If the server caused ogron to be ko' d on 9 We would be replaying that 100%.

[Efhat]

I’d have to say,
Willbys reasoning for my appeal was absolute shit too and one of the worst decisions an OP has made in the last few leagues.

it almost sounded more biased than anything. Past practice has always shown that server lag in which games were close, would be replayed. Or server lag that caused issues in close games would always get game replays.

but his reasoning on denying my appeal shows his inexperience, and I’d actually like to know if he was the sole person making this decision or who were the others who were involved in influencing the decision.

while I appreciate his efforts in running the league and stepping up, I do think big decisions like that in such a short league in which every game counts should be discussed with a more experienced group.

his sole decision was based on me over exaggerating my time frames which is completely irrelevant in a 30 second difference game in where server lag effected over 2 minutes of game play and then added a “what if this” or “what if that” for the basis of his denial instead of sticking to the cold hard facts and rules this game has lived on for the last decade. That's like saying if Lebron wouldve made the last 2 free throws in the end of the game to win it, the lights going out for 30 seconds 2 quarters before that wouldn't of effected the outcome. It's ridiculous.

I am almost positive if this same incident happened to anyone else relevant or himself. That game would be getting replayed. Because I can’t see him accepting a “what if your TERR had did this instead of that during server lag” in which sharks or other plays couldn’t even fucking attach or repel appropriately as a basis on a denial when there was obvious server lag effecting the game and what if that game was a playoff or final game? I am 100% positive that decision would’ve been completely different than the BS outcome of mine.

[Efhat]

Now Willby has set a precedence that if server lag occurs for nearly 2-4 minutes during games, even if it's close, there is no point in appealing because it will get denied like mine did. Since we're denying appeals because of "What if's" and "What could've" instead of actual server lag interference.

[Kings]

better get a lawyer dude....

[viop11]

vs ebola from no doubt cheap eastir egg u p1g f1ced sh1t j1f crippil/tiny

[Pressure]

WillBy is a TWDT-B and TWL-B champion.