TWDT Season 26 Rules - Feedback Needed

[Turban]

[QUOTE=WillBy;n1360301]
From what I can tell, the primary concern with the star cap is that too many teams focus on filling the star cap rather than adding real competitive lines. This means adding 6*s who dont play that ship to maximize the availability for high star players, generally leaving mid star players who'd love to play sitting in spec. This also leaves the high stars stuck carrying (or hunting) the low stars, which isn't really fun for either side there either.

Is my understanding of why people want a star slot system correct? [/QUOTE]

Correct.

If we do not wish to switch to a player tier system then an alternative would be to increase the minimum player rating up to 7-stars. This would mean drafting would no longer become a cat and mouse game of trying to find the most broken low-star players to take advantage of which in return forces captains to draft more well-rounded teams. This would be mostly beneficial to mid-star players who are our primary target audience in draft leagues in my honest opinion while also giving us a more balanced league in theory.

I feel we would ideally have a mini-league running at the same time where lower rated players not added by their main team could go to play some matches to prove their worth to their captain.

[Rab]

[QUOTE=Turban;n1360302]
If we do not wish to switch to a player tier system then an alternative would be to increase the minimum player rating up to 7-stars. [/QUOTE]
That's a good idea. +1

[Riverside]

[QUOTE=Turban;n1360302]
I feel we would ideally have a mini-league running at the same time where lower rated players not added by their main team could go to play some matches to prove their worth to their captain. [/QUOTE]

I like this.

Ideas to consider within that league:[LIST][*]A limit of x number of players over 7* or 7.5*[*]A limit of y % of a teams total *'s of players over 7* or 7.5*[/LIST]3 days of games per week (EST time)[LIST][*]1 weeknight[*]Saturday at noon/1pm[*]Sunday before, during, or after other League games[/LIST]If captains were wanted or needed, I would co-captain a team for this type of league. Ideally the other C wud sumhow haf an efin lower rating than me in 3 leagues (till more playirs haf improofd 2d fundimintils then my rating will b efin more fukd).



If bot work is accessed by others in da dev and serfir teams, to avoid no-shows,

cud release 1 non human playir per team (fartsniffir, etc).

[ogron]

[QUOTE=Turban;n1360302]
An alternative would be to increase the minimum player rating up to 7-stars. This would mean drafting would no longer become a cat and mouse game of trying to find the most broken low-star players to take advantage of which in return forces captains to draft more well-rounded teams. This would be mostly beneficial to mid-star players who are our primary target audience in draft leagues in my honest opinion while also giving us a more balanced league in theory.
[/QUOTE]

this was already done in 2015-2018 (albeit under the star slot system), and worked very well (as long as you don't inflate people's ratings), and should be brought back.

the real issue is we constantly have new TWDT ops who have limited experience, want to put their stamp on the league, and make regressive changes for the sake of change.

the result is we get ratings inflation, averaged out ratings (literally the worst way to rate players), a minimum player rating that is too high, a star cap system that can be crushed by excel sheet dorks like violence as the impact is cumulative (star slots provide less advantage), and poor oversight of trading dorks like tiny/violence who send 200 offers a day and make 4000 trades a season and think they're managing a professional football team.

i only capped 1 star cap season, but i pulled a vio with an excel sheet and ran the league over, because again... it's cumulative. violence is showing that the league has become more about moneyballing than just showing up and playing well. the star slot system would mitigate this dorkfest captaining to some degree. you also need to limit the amount of trades captains make, which was something instituted to stop Tiny in 2016 and help volunteer ops sanity.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/gG25783.png[/img]

[ogron]

also, if you're not using the star cap system, this is [COLOR=#e74c3c][B]extremely, extremely important:[/B][/COLOR]

[SIZE=28px]the best thing about the star cap system was that it increased the potential captaincy pool because it nerfed 10* captains advantage.[/SIZE]

i, and every other twdt op pre-2019, failed to address this issue. the pushback on trying to force captains to pick themselves was huge.

a 10/10/9 cap in a league with 8 teams and 3 max slots in wb/jav, had a big edge. if there's 24 max slots in wb/jav, and only 17 players who are 9* and 10* in those leagues, the 10/10/9 cap gets the #2 pick and selects a 10/9/10 player and an 8/7/8 captain with the 8th pick will never be able to catch up. you basically have to abandon a league, outdraft everyone in two leagues, barely make playoffs, then win in 1 of those 2 leagues, while the 10/10/9 cap rolls into playoffs with 3 full lines, the #1 or #2 seed, and byes and easier matchups.

you either need to match the amount of max slots to the amount of max players available for a 8/8/8 captain picking late in the draft to fill his line in all 3 leagues realistically, or make captains pick themselves. [I][B]this is literally the issue that caused Mythril to create the star cap system[/B][/I], and it was a real issue and should be improved upon. the star slot system is otherwise better than the star cap system, IMO.

[LeeRomeno]

Another idea:
I remember in a few EG leagues, where we wanted more people involved we used system where teams had to do lineup changes during regular season. So this means that during matchday they had to use x+1 (or x+2 dont remember) players. So if u have 2 matches in wb, in total you need to use at least 7 players combined for both games for majority of time. This brought also another level into strategy (u know 2 teams u need to face, what lineups/subs u will do).
To not to interfer in later phases, in playoffs this shouldnt be used.

[Ekk0]

[QUOTE=LeeRomeno;n1360308]Another idea:
I remember in a few EG leagues, where we wanted more people involved we used system where teams had to do lineup changes during regular season. So this means that during matchday they had to use x+1 (or x+2 dont remember) players. So if u have 2 matches in wb, in total you need to use at least 7 players combined for both games for majority of time. This brought also another level into strategy (u know 2 teams u need to face, what lineups/subs u will do).
To not to interfer in later phases, in playoffs this shouldnt be used. [/QUOTE]

This is a great idea to force captains to utilize more talent on the roster, think this should be implemented for this DT.. maybe not for playoffs.

[Rab]

That "use more talent on the roster" idea is shit. It means that someone shows up to play, they want to play, their cap wants them to play, but they're not allowed to play. That's a shit experience. Great way to turn people against league mods.

[Turban]

It would also require teams to have relatively large rosters in order to work. In the end it is best to leave it up to captains to rotate players to keep them happy instead of forcing the issue.

[LeeRomeno]

[QUOTE=Turban;n1360314]It would also require teams to have relatively large rosters in order to work. In the end it is best to leave it up to captains to rotate players to keep them happy instead of forcing the issue.[/QUOTE]

Do not recall any draft league I have been part of, where there have not been at least 7 ppl online for the game for my squad. Maybe this is exception, but it is not really an issue considering average squads. It will of course not work if current VP system is used, but could work with tier-system.

[LeeRomeno]

[QUOTE=Rab;n1360312]That "use more talent on the roster" idea is shit. It means that someone shows up to play, they want to play, their cap wants them to play, but they're not allowed to play. That's a shit experience. Great way to turn people against league mods.[/QUOTE]

dont get this really. Isnt it for the benefit for league that more people get involved in it vs cap sticking with top 5 for each game and everyone else just got signed up for league and get 0 games?
How will this turn ppl against league mods?

[Rab]

[QUOTE=LeeRomeno;n1360316]
Isn't it for the benefit for league that more people get involved in it vs cap sticking with top 5 for each game and everyone else just got signed up for league and get 0 games?[/QUOTE]
There's no such thing as "benefit for the league". Try to define it.

[QUOTE=LeeRomeno;n1360316]
How will this turn ppl against league mods?[/QUOTE]
Player A - is going to hate you for taking away their play time.
Player B - is going to get some playtime.
Both Players - have to choose between showing up with a chance of no playtime, or not showing up at all. This is a bad experience, they will get frustrated, stop showing up, and post on the forum about how they want it changed back.

[LeeRomeno]

[QUOTE=Rab;n1360317]
There's no such thing as "benefit for the league". Try to define it.


Player A - is going to hate you for taking away their play time.
Player B - is going to get some playtime.
Both Players - have to choose between showing up with a chance of no playtime, or not showing up at all. This is a bad experience, they will get frustrated, stop showing up, and post on the forum about how they want it changed back.[/QUOTE]

Dunno, for me, league has been always successful if as many people as possible, taking part of it, actually get to enjoy and and play it. This means a fine balance between enough gametime for most of players vs facing no-shows and other elements that take fun away from it.

As for second, if that were true, we would not need more than 5 ppl (starters per squad) per squad. I do not really know why anyone would want to sign up for league and not expect to play, what is the point of that.
Also you are really making it sound way too dramatic, more people get to play, just a bit less, for me, that sounds like a good compromise, those definite starters who will cry, if they get benched, will not be benched anyways.

[Rab]

For me the league is successful if teams play at their maximum performance. That means a fair draft, with captains free to field the players they drafted, and players having good attendance.

To flip that around - if a roster is weak, that's bad. If good players have to bench, that's bad. If people don't live up to their expected attendance, that's bad.

I agree that signing up and not expecting to play is pointless, yet people do it every season, makes no sense to me. All it does is waste time on draft day. This is why I suggest not forcing captains to pick them, just end the draft early instead.

For arguments sake, if I'm the player who isn't getting to play because there's someone better in my slot, I'll just accept the situation and do something else with my time. I'm not going to show up hoping some scraps get thrown my way. And if I'm the player who usually plays, I'm showing up expecting to play, then I end up benched, so I wasted my time, if this continues I will learn that showing up is a waste of time. It's not dramatic, it's just a person doing what's in their interest, and whether it's Player A or Player B, the correct play is to not show up.

[Zeebu]

most of these suggestions seem fairly reasonable.

mouse trying to boot all the low star players out of the league is stupid and hes an asshole for keeping trying to do it. if you dont want to play the draft league, dont. dont try and remove people from the league that you dont want to play with. dickhead.

ogron bashed the 'minmaxing' and spreadsheets that helps in a star capped league. the trading too. im not sure i see an issue here though. honestly im not really sure what youre trying to say. in one comment you say the star cap was implemented to open up the capping pool and allow for lesser rated captains to not be disadvantaged and in the next one you bash violence (a lower rated cap) for trying his best to use the system in place that allows him to captain without disadvantage. violence can be annoying and unintelligible at times, but hes still a very competent captain in this league.

if we move to the slot style, lower stared caps are once again at a disadvantage. is there anything that could be done with the draft or slots themselves that handicaps that difference? maybe an additional compensatory pick someplace? im not sure how to address this. going to a slot system also removes the ability to play a decent top to bottom lineup of all 8s and 9s which have been shown to compete well in the league.

i guess it would be good to state what the goal of the league is. in my opinion the two ideals that make twdt great is the inclusivity and the team parity. the star cap, imo, will do a better job of both of these than slots. think back to the twdt prior to the current one going on, i dont remember any major star cap drama. there were an appropriate number of teams for the amount of players we had. if we size the league correctly, the star cap vs slots shouldnt look too different, but slots eliminate the all 8/9 line option. im against a twdt that ends up with caps just putting in all the good players and not having to think about lineup ability tradeoffs.

could we implement a midseason rating adjustment? it would force caps to totally reevaluate their lines if they are set already, but i think we could force it to be a net neutral change. there is already talk on changing the rating distribution, if a player moves up or down into a different rating group, we can move someone else in that rating group out. regardless of how its done, i think its worth discussing the pros/cons of a midseason rating adjustment.