TWDT Season 26 Rules - Feedback Needed

[brethal]

I agree and would go with willberts map. Sargers idea is cool for some game mode, id play it instead of twbd on some instances. Would be nice for those uneven twbd games with unbalanced teams since you don't end up cramming/cram breaking for 10 minutes straight

[J-B-Inc]

i think what am about to say is good like my wb top 15 keep the star rating keep the star cap but have 3 draft 1 for wb one jav one base have more caps for teams players dont have to be on the same team for all 3

[ogron]

[QUOTE=brethal;n1360368]Oggie have you got any data on average cram times with new twdt map?[/QUOTE]

[USER="4113"]brethal[/USER] no, not sure i have the willpower to look through all those games. but i can check our semi-final.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/i.imgur.com\/1ZKtHpp.png"}[/IMG2]

it's hard to win a league where you outplay the enemy team by +10 minutes in the FR as a 10* terr, but you lose anyway because a low-star terr can sit in cram doing nothing and get +13 minutes cram time behind more *s in spider.

[Riverside]

Am I da only playir who enjoys a challenge of cRAMming, whether to enter or keep out?

I like the idea of continuing to make entering cram easier, but not removing it, literally or conceptually.

Imo (as a 6* spid), spids (can & imo sometimes do) continue 2 improve by vsing the concept of camp corners or/then push, individually & collectively, to enter cram. While that concept is applied in flag room battles: in cram, it's explicitly structured. Without a structured attack, the team is stuck outside cram (unless a shark vs powerful tab entry via JOE/mirksmin/sparckil/tabirnik/a2m/willpy/ocra$$hole/mattey/viticin)

For sharks to enter or to protect FR: there are opportunities to get off 1-3 powerful repels, or press TAB to vs ppl / clear. As someone who plays shark at an 8* level in sum TWDTs and twds, cramming is one of the parts that motivates me 2 vs ship 8 (I enjoy entering and protecting flag room).

SPAWN MINE.

[Rab]

I liked cramming when it was new and I was on Mambo figuring out how to optimize it. But that was about 18 years ago. A suitable time to mix things up would have been about 10-15 years ago.

Cram makes the team heavily dependent on sharks. We are lacking sharks, so it's a logical evolution to make the game less reliant on them.

FR battles are the most fun for me. I'd always choose to spend a minute fighting a FR battle over attacking or defending a cram.

I think the time the whole enemy team has to spend flying back into base is sufficient punishment for a TD. There's no need to make them fight a cram on top of that. If you want to adjust the punishment just spawn them further away.

[Vehicle]

Wider entrance makes bombing in shark incredibly difficult. Kinda sucks but is a fair tradeoff, maybe.

[USER="956"]ogron[/USER] the game isn't entirely about flagroom nor is it entirely about terr. Break cram if you don't want to fight it. I don't get why all of the sudden were just trying to entirely eliminate cram. It's not like simply having a cram guarentees anything. Having a good cram vs Zapata might though.

[ogron]

[QUOTE=Vehicle;n1360384][USER="956"]ogron[/USER] Break cram if you don't want to fight it. I don't get why all of the sudden were just trying to entirely eliminate cram. It's not like simply having a cram guarentees anything. Having a good cram vs Zapata might though.[/QUOTE]

all of a sudden? people have been trying to nerf cram for literally 20 years, and many of us have been pushing for it to get nerfed in TWDT-B for nearly a decade.

[quote=vehicle]the game isn't entirely about flagroom nor is it entirely about terr.[/quote]

turban, mythril, and others brought up high-star terrs struggling precisely because of cram and having less spider/shark power, so that is a topic of discussion and what i responded? as a 10* terr i am sharing my experience and what i view as issues with being rated 10* in that ship and how it is arguably the hardest ship to have success in. cape and zizu have both been downgraded from 10*s during the star cap era, pressure/trasher/dreamwin haven't won, and mikkiz won once but against another 10* in the finals.

"just break" isn't a helpful suggestion.

either fix the map because 1) FR battles are more fun and interesting and 2) it's a problem for high-star terrs, or as turban has suggested several times over the years, reduce the cost of terrs across the board since a 10* terr is only worth 10* in the Flagroom battles. It's incredibly challenging to break cram as a 10* when you have several less stars in spider/shark.

the new map's primary goal was to reduce cramming because cram is boring and sucks for everyone, but the secondary goal was to make high-star terr more viable. i think it worked early on, but people are clever and have adapted and now it's arguably weakened the impact of sharks/terrs even more and made team's even more spider dependent.

just because this map wasn't successful doesn't mean we shouldn't stop trying to make the game better.

[Vehicle]

I am all for changing it up. If the consensus is that three flagroom entrances and zero cramming is the ideal way to play the game, go for it. I'd rather jus flatten the bar.

[ogron]

[QUOTE=Vehicle;n1360386]I am all for changing it up. If the consensus is that three flagroom entrances and zero cramming is the ideal way to play the game, go for it. I'd rather jus flatten the bar. [/QUOTE]

i think the issue with flattening the bar or any like structural changes within the base is you'd have to relearn almost all the bursts. like, personally, i really don't want to re-learn everything LOL. if possible, a change that doesn't alter the map fundamentally would be preferable.

[Rab]

some more artwork to facilitate discussion

[img]https://i.imgur.com/CmDMmYO.png[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/GvU2KRc.png[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/JXZkfE2.png[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/7QFSPVT.png[/img]

[beam]

not sure if I'm alone in this but it's my opinion that you guys are making twdt a complete joke with 0 prestige by running a 6 team summer league and then another season alongside twl back to back which will be 2 seasons in a row that nobody will take seriously

I never really cared much about winning twdt as it's always been kind of a sub league but after this I care actual 0 and feel the recent decisions have relegated it to elim status

[Riverside]

Imagine using "[B]prestige[/B]" as the core and center of a post about leagues in a 2d spaceship game that less than 300 people play.

For example, a lack of prestige isn't why you have yet to play in the entirety of this Summer season (gatta b added to play for a league that is supposedly beginning to lack prestige).

Prestige is a consequence, with limited quantitative characteristics.

Achieving prestige, imo, is not a central objective of leagues planned and executed to give folks an opportunity to shoot spaceships competitively (esp TWDT, and including the version of TWL we've seen in the past).

-Written from Cancun

[beam]

[QUOTE=Riverside;n1360390]Imagine using "[B]prestige[/B]" as the core and center of a post about leagues in a 2d spaceship game that less than 300 people play.

For example, a lack of prestige isn't why you have yet to play in the entirety of this Summer season (gatta b added).

Prestige is a consequence; not a central objective of leagues planned and executed to give folks an opportunity to shoot spaceships competitively (esp TWDT, and including the version of TWL we've seen in the past).

-Written from Cancun[/QUOTE]

I wasnt added cuz i never showed up which every cap knew was a possibility going into the season. If people stop caring about dt, which has already started to happen due to the decisions made by the recent ops, then it will no longer have the low level of competitiveness that it has had the past few seasons.

Maybe prestige was a poor word to use because it's easy to target by all of the bad players who make a living off saying they don't care how much they suck and how they are fine with ruining matches for everybody else cuz haha fun fun woo! but coming from a guy who is hanging on to his 1 twld win from 10 years ago vs an all time low skill lineup of wbs it's kind of weird and I'd think you would get it.

[Riverside]

[QUOTE=beam;n1360391]

If people stop caring about dt, which has already started to happen due to the decisions made by the recent ops, then it will no longer have the low level of competitiveness that it has had the past few seasons.

[/QUOTE]

I'm seeing the opposite.

Sure, there's a small loud minority who voices its discontent regularly when situations don't go their way, individually and collectively. Those players continue to play, and sometimes contribute voluntarily.

For example, there are certain folks who claimed endlessly that summer wasn't an active period. "People" don't play leagues in the summer. Posts were made that 6 teams would be enough. I believe you were one of the folks that provided that input, now that we mention it (cud b wrong).

Those same folks now whine about 6 teams in the Summer League being shitty.

Generalizations aren't useful when making decisions: I'd consider words (ideally quantitatively, not qualitatively) that add on to "people" when you try to make points, especially when you try to state observations.

It looks like you're already avoiding "prestige", so no more input from me about the usage of that word jeje haha.

PS: it's great to see you online, in-game (again) on this TWDT Sunday.

[beam]

[QUOTE=Riverside;n1360392]

I'm seeing the opposite.

Sure, there's a small loud minority who voices its discontent (but still continues to play).

For example, there are certain folks who claimed endlessly that summer wasn't an active period. "People" don't play leagues in the summer. Posts were made that 6 teams would be enough. I believe you were one of the folks that provided that input, now that we mention it (cud b wrong).

Those same folks now whine about 6 teams in the Summer League being shitty.

Generalizations aren't useful when making decisions: I'd consider words (ideally quantitatively, not qualitatively) that add on to "people" when you try to make points, especially when you try to state observations.

It looks like you're already avoiding "prestige", so no more input from me about the usage of that word jeje haha.[/QUOTE]

I have no idea what purpose your posts have. You are basically just trying to argue with me for the sake of arguing and finding things to dispute that are irrelevant to the point of my posts. I assume you just want to look like an idiot in front of tens of people because I call you bad in game, so carry on.

We need to find a better way for ops to run DT. While it's great that Dwopple stepped up to run the league, his handling of every single issue that came up ranks all time bad. I believe this to be a result of Dwopple trying to run everything by himself and not taking input from anybody. All successful ops in the past have had a team of people to consult with on major decisions or at a minimum some people they respected enough to take input from. It seems the upcoming twl/dt is looking to correct this by having a larger team of ops/helpers so I will withhold judgement on that league.