Inflated base ratings.

[Dwopple]

[QUOTE=MousE;n1360450]

ya I dont want to cap a team forced to use warbirds in base cuz of some retard making bad star caps[/QUOTE]

Insufferable. You hated your team, we get it. I'd maybe feel worse for you if I didn't know you still rage pm vets and, more worrisome, new players in TWBD.

Instead, I'm very grateful for Willby and Mark feeling refreshed from volunteering enough to and enough time to plan out these changes. We went through 2.5 months, 2 failed league attempts, and less than 5 TWD matches per day until we could get this TWDT up and running with limited volunteer caps and signups until the last minute. Now, we're averaging 15-20 games per day (I saw 147 players / bots online last night).

My metrics for successful leagues are not defined by your own personal happiness with the chance for a shiny medal at the end of it for you.

Let it go. Lol.

[MousE]

[QUOTE=Dwopple;n1360452]

Insufferable. You hated your team, we get it. I'd maybe feel worse for you if I didn't know you still rage pm vets and, more worrisome, new players in TWBD.

Instead, I'm very grateful for Willby and Mark feeling refreshed from volunteering enough to and enough time to plan out these changes. We went through 2.5 months, 2 failed league attempts, and less than 5 TWD matches per day until we could get this TWDT up and running with limited volunteer caps and signups until the last minute. Now, we're averaging 15-20 games per day (I saw 147 players / bots online last night).

My metrics for successful leagues are not defined by your own personal happiness with the chance for a shiny medal at the end of it for you.

Let it go. Lol. [/QUOTE]

Your argument is a logical fallacy... if you did nothing the game could still be at the exact same state now. Just admit your league design sucked and I will let it go. You won't because you are a double downer. The games last night and tonight were better then ANY GAME that was played in terms of skill all DT and included players that actually played this game.

Look man the proof of how bad ur decisions were show in the lines in the DT finals.
WB - joe a baser was in the finals line for WB who I know doesn't give a fuck about playing the ship. I have literally never seen Uprise and Monkee in TWBD and they are in DT base finals.

get a fucking clue asshat.... you literally capped in the league you ran and made no changed because banzi lee and groan are actually good low stars that understand base. To me this looks like the ONLY league you have won since I have come back to the game and it stinks of corruption and decisions that benefited you.

I smell bullshit oh no wait that is just Dwopple typing.

you suck Don Jr

P.S I say what I say in PM in person also... I am not full of shit like you!!! Beep Beep clown and uhhhh if you did such a good job why are there pages of posts asking for league improvements?

I wish I could key IDIOT into the side of your car, but keep plugging ur ears and closing ur eyes while every1 on here flames you for being a failure

[Jones]

[QUOTE=mouse] Look man the proof of how bad ur decisions were show in the lines in the DT finals. WB - joe a baser was in the finals line for WB who I know doesn't give a fuck about playing the ship. I have literally never seen Uprise and Monkee in TWBD and they are in DT base finals. [/QUOTE]

I thought this was the point of draft. Doesnt seem to work as well in basing. That's why twlb exists.

[uprise]

[QUOTE=MousE;n1360455]

I have literally never seen Uprise and Monkee in TWBD and they are in DT base finals.

[/QUOTE]

I mean to be fair, Im also barely ever in TWJD and TWDD arenas. That's generally what happens when you're euro and all games played are at 2am. I quite literally only play leagues cause its doable for my timezone. Also, I like to think I had a good season :(

Ever since 2 TWDTs ago I've been looking to try and play base games, cause I do like it. I am just not good and it is nearly impossible to practice as euro.

[hak]

I wonder if Mouse goes off like this in the supermarket when they didn't arrange the oranges exactly the way he likes them.

Looking forward to seeing you actually do something for once instead of constantly berating others for doing a volunteer job. Time to step up little mouse.



Edit to at least add something on topic: i don't really care for leagues but what I like most about TWDT is that it is inclusive for some lower * players to engage. Please don't lose sight of this because it's basically the only thing separating TWL from TWDT. Strategizing around carrying one low * in an 8 player base game should be an easy task, not the mountain of trouble our murine friend seems to suggest. Heck, maybe you can give them some tips to jump from 6* to 7* right away, go nuts.

[Rasaq]

Well, I think it's pretty obvious who the Karen is in our community.

[LeeRomeno]

[QUOTE=uprise;n1360457]

I mean to be fair, Im also barely ever in TWJD and TWDD arenas. That's generally what happens when you're euro and all games played are at 2am. I quite literally only play leagues cause its doable for my timezone. Also, I like to think I had a good season :(

Ever since 2 TWDTs ago I've been looking to try and play base games, cause I do like it. I am just not good and it is nearly impossible to practice as euro.[/QUOTE]

This I have to agree with, based on stats, i should only play jav in leagues, because well thats pretty much only thing that you can play during euro times with some jds going on. I think i played maybe 1-2 base matches max between 2 draft leagues.
On another note, I do not think it is necessarily bad that players who have historically been basers/duellers take some new challenges and learn other aspects of game. It is not like there are tons of new players coming up or any other zones that die and you can expect influx of players.

[Rab]

[QUOTE=Vehicle;n1360451]When rab/ogron originally pitched having terr star count not matter I almost jokingly made a post that said "let's do the same with sharks then too since it's basically the same argument."

And then WillBy suggests just that.

And then I think about it and realize it might work. As rab said, the specials cost would come from their draft position. I feel like this system probably would work the least well for the lower-starred specials, as in you can't save value in your lineup so you're going to take the best you can get. But I guess that just means a few sharks are at risk of riding the bench.

Gimmie that 7(.5)* Terr rating! [/QUOTE]

I considered doing it for sharks and deliberately chose not to include them.

Currently the optimal shark pick is 1 strong 1 weak, followed by 2 similar rated sharks.

If shark ratings don't count, that would encourage teams to draft 2 very strong sharks - which they currently don't do because it's too expensive - so players who are top sharks and also good in other divisions suddenly become much more valuable - zid, commodo, jamal, turban, morph, etc.

This problem doesn't really matter for terrs because
a) you can only have one of them
b) it's a blunder to pick a terr early
c) the top terrs aren't great in other divisions, maybe turb/dreamwin but you'd probably be better off not terring them (debatable)

So you can see how the impact of removing shark ratings is much greater than the impact of removing terr ratings, and I felt it wasn't really necessary.

It's also possible to continue the logic to spiders - making them not count either - and just letting the draft sort it all out - which I'm not totally against, but I feel like if you can justify it for sharks you're already on this path.

I also think that the importance of sharks is related to the map. It's not super clear cut - but we have been discussing map changes without yet knowing what those changes are - some sharks are better in cram, some will adapt better than others, etc - so I feel like making decisions about sharks without knowing the map is risky.

[Zeebu]

what if you just removed the lower of the two sharks ratings


edit: i think i meant upper of the two ratings. that way if you draft 2 10* sharks it costs 10* to your team. if you draft a 10 and a 9 it only costs you 9*

this would, like ters, force an early pick on a high star but once youve got one you can draft whoever with the other

[Dwopple]

Mouse has been on the "I'm elitist and only care about myself and non-shitters" train for years and on the "I hate Dwopple" train for even longer. He's an island boy. Nothing new to see here.

I didn't "design" this league for you, Mouse. Get over yourself. The low-stars you despise and wish would stay in pub or at least not play matches when you do (even TWD) aren't as vocal as you are on here. The fact is, though, they bring a ton of value to this community and leagues like TWDT are geared to inclusivity. Was it perfect this season? Nope, and I've never claimed this. In fact, I've acknowledged it all season and others have realized there were a ton of "lose-lose" situations and have moved on to what's next (hype).

I was extremely stoked to see monkee come back to TW and get a lot of playtime, as well as seeing uprise have a starting base spot. I was happy to play Lee, Groan (who shined last TWDT as a lower star) and watch them win a medal.

These guys (among others) showed up every weekend ready to play, just like you Mouse. Your entire logic right now is to project your personal feelings and experience because you hated your team, we get it. Which goes back to my original point about the limitation of volunteers to cap...

The star cap didn't ruin your 4 weeks. Was it to the quality you wanted it to be? No, but you act like this 50% of the time even in TWBD. Others who felt the way you did (excluding the other island boys) have not gone to the extent you have to rage at me. On stream I literally defended the current star cap to favor giving the low stars some playtime. Which goes back to the top of this post about you 1) being a self-centered elitist, and 2) having a 15-year hatred hard-on for me... Nothing to see here.

I do love how much I've personally affected you these past 4 weeks, though 🤡

Edit: sorry to distract from the productive conversation here. I'm a fan of the changes being proposed ❤️

[Rab]

[QUOTE=Zeebu;n1360463]what if you just removed the lower of the two sharks ratings

edit: I think I meant upper of the two ratings. that way if you draft 2 10* sharks it costs 10* to your team. if you draft a 10 and a 9 it only costs you 9*

this would, like terrs, force an early pick on a high star but once you've got one you can draft whoever with the other[/QUOTE]

What do you think is gained from this? (asking because I don't see the benefit so maybe you can tell me)

[Zeebu]

[QUOTE=Rab;n1360465]

What do you think is gained from this? (asking because I don't see the benefit so maybe you can tell me)[/QUOTE]

It allows for special consideration of both 'skill' positions while not skewing it too drastically for shark (since there are 2.) If you only remove the top shark's rating, you still make the captain decide the other half of the shark duo. You can choose your second shark in a way that either lets you spend more of spiders or opt for a stronger (possibly dual 10*) shark duo if you invest in that direction. It does a similar thing as the terrier * requirement elimination for shark, but only one of the sharks as making both not count would force everyone to try and draft dual 10* sharks or be left at a total disadvantage. This way if you miss out of a second 10* shark you can still put those extra stars towards your spider line to compensate

[Rab]

I see, thanks.

The idea behind removing terr rating is that terrs aren't really delivering 10* worth of impact. It's just a simpler way of dealing with it than artificially deflating the terr's rating.

10* sharks are really worth 10* though, so I don't really feel the need to do anything with shark ratings.

For example:
You get last pick and the top sharks are gone. The best shark you can get is 9*. Then at some point later you get an 8* shark.
The 9* doesn't count, but you could have had a 10* in that slot - so that's 1* worth of disadvantage.
You have no opportunity to spend 1* extra on spiders to make up for it.

The same is true of terrs, but terrs aren't the first picks, so it isn't so biased towards the caps with early picks.

Even with only the top shark's rating removed, you're still forced to use your first picks on 10* sharks, and if there aren't any available you're just fucked?

[Zeebu]

basically.

maybe instead your first shark's slot is filled by the highest shark in but it credits your available cap value by 10 minus the player * value. Does anyone ever play with lower than a 9* for their top shark? At most this would likely add 1* to your available line. This mitigates the shark scarcity situation you outlined. Is the total value of the ability to have a pair of 9* sharks with an extra 1* in spid limit equal to a 10* and a 9* shark pair? All other combinations apply, but this seems like the most likely situation. If a team wants to risk it by taking multiple sharks under 9* into a match, they'll certainly need the extra spider power to compensate.

[Zeebu]

also, unless its already been brought up and i havent seen it, all basers with terrier driven ratings should be re-evaluated to only use the higher of their spid or shark value.