*cap thoughts for next DT

[yoast]

same caps they all tried and put their effort in and all are vets.

[RageRitual]

i can see a different league running during TWL having a chance to do something. seems like a good spot to try something new for players that might not see gametime in TWL. the core of the teams should probably be made up of players 8 or 8.5 and below. There would certainly be a little overlap between some beer league players and TWL teams. that would have to be sorted out. i dont see a reason why a few of the more support TWL players couldnt play on a beer league team while still participating in TWL. Maybe Saturdays would be a good spot to run the beer league games.

Alongside TWL but on saturdays seems like a great spot for this.

Might be a good idea having it on a separate day. I opened up another thread for beer league talks.

[Zeebu]

i can see a different league running during TWL having a chance to do something. seems like a good spot to try something new for players that might not see gametime in TWL. the core of the teams should probably be made up of players 8 or 8.5 and below. There would certainly be a little overlap between some beer league players and TWL teams. that would have to be sorted out. i dont see a reason why a few of the more support TWL players couldnt play on a beer league team while still participating in TWL. Maybe Saturdays would be a good spot to run the beer league games.

Alongside TWL but on saturdays seems like a great spot for this.

[RageRitual]

turban stealing ideas

Yea this was suggested earlier in this thread, not that it's a bad idea though.

The reason a beer league never takes off is because the low tier doesn't want to play in one.

I am of the opinion that this game is old and we're not going to attract new players in any real meaningful way.

Beer league does not have to really have anything to do with regular DT and we don't really need new players for it, there are already a lot of low star players out there. This could be started with a small amount of teams, even if it's just 2 teams the first run at it and run it the same time as TWL.This would give playtime for anyone 8* and under (or whatever limit we set) at the same time the 9s and 10s could be playing TWL and everyone gets a chance to play something. We could also have a * minimum requirement for TWL, this could avoid having blowouts with teams that have no business playing in TWL since nobody really enjoys blowouts on either end.

[Jessup]

turban stealing ideas

[Vehicle]

The reason a beer league never takes off is because the low tier doesn't want to play in one. There is a healthy population of people who play pub every night but will never log on for a Sunday scheduled match.

I am of the opinion that this game is old and we're not going to attract new players in any real meaningful way. Thus, we should cater to our most dedicated and likely-to-keep-coming-back players.

That's the people who participate in TWD. It's also the people that DT already caters to.

This summer season of DT showed that there is a core group of players that will be on 52 out of 52 Sundays. Those players are 7* or more in their best leagues. We don't need to do anything different.

Do TWL next then another DT. Simple. Effective. Right.

[LeeRomeno]

You could always remove player ratings and merely rank players in different tier ranks with hard limits on how many can be considered elite, high skill, middle tier and beginner. Limit lineups to one elite, one high skill, two middle tier and one beginner.

Lineups would probably wary between 42-star and 40-star with this system which is still fine.

turban stealing ideas

[Turban]

You could always remove player ratings and merely rank players in different tier ranks with hard limits on how many can be considered elite, high skill, middle tier and beginner. Limit lineups to one elite, one high skill, two middle tier and one beginner.

Lineups would probably wary between 42-star and 40-star with this system which is still fine.

[beam]

Usually when a player is benched in dt it's because they aren't active in twd throughout the week. It's not common for a player to be like Riverside or Ravage and spam games every single day with no improvement at all and remain unplayable at a low * rating in dt for years. We don't need to cater to the "50% of pop" who put no time in and want to show up on sundays as a low star and be spoon fed a spot. Historically any player that puts in time during the week to practice has gotten at least a chance in dt and some guys like Riverside and Ravage just blow it every season by being atrocious, but that's not the league's fault.

[LeeRomeno]

Some of us have tried to get an amateur league going, or beer league whatever you want to call it. It never quite seems to take off but it would be good for the zone. There is probably enough people in the community to gather 2-4 teams easily. We should run this along side TWL since most 6s and 7s wont be participating in that anyways. SNOOPiE for cap!

+1 for beer league. Let's get this ball rolling!



Hmmmm, last season I was 7* in warbird and stole the starting spot on my team from an 8* warbird. You can earn spots from people in wb/jav if you play well. In base this is a little different because of having to mix different ships as well as stars.

Sure you can, but usually this chance only appears if you actually get to play. There are many players in current league, who have not had a single minute in jav/wb, there are of course always exceptions. I think not focusing on VP, but looking at things broader will give less psychological pressure to actually field max VPs on freq.

[RageRitual]

Some of us have tried to get an amateur league going, or beer league whatever you want to call it. It never quite seems to take off but it would be good for the zone. There is probably enough people in the community to gather 2-4 teams easily. We should run this along side TWL since most 6s and 7s wont be participating in that anyways. SNOOPiE for cap!

+1 for beer league. Let's get this ball rolling!

2)I think captains are most often trying to max the limit, psychologically it feels right, but this means sometimes 8 star player gets gametime ahead of potentially better 7.5 player, who has been just rated wrong.

Hmmmm, last season I was 7* in warbird and stole the starting spot on my team from an 8* warbird. You can earn spots from people in wb/jav if you play well. In base this is a little different because of having to mix different ships as well as stars.

[Exalt]

Subspaces Hockey Zone arena (6v6), which has a smaller active & inactive Zone population than Trench Wars, supports a "Beer League" (lower tier, let's say 7.5*/8* or lower) with many teams, where teams have a limit of x (2 out of 6 in HZ?) higher skilled players in at once.

With enough volunteers on the Operating Teams, a dual solution of 2 leagues running: a Pro League, and a Beer League, could:

• Introduce new times to Trench Wars, thereby re-engaging inactive members of the community who can only play during: times that are more international-friendly (earlier in the afternoon than TWDT) and evening/night games (weekdays and/or weekends)
• Give higher starred players the league they've been asking for
• Allows lower starred vets to play competitive League games with 1-2 higher starred players: improving their own gameplay (often), desire to improve through TWD games (sometimes) and consequently, the overall competitiveness of the Zone

That beer league is almost completely made up of TW and former EG players though. Do you foresee any of the HZ-only players moving over to TW to play in some low * league? I don't.

[Riverside]

all it costs is 50% of the league population. since theyre all from the bottom of the barrel though its probably fine.

hi zeebu

im not suggesting removing TWDT as a league. Just adding another (2 at the same time) to the Zones calendar, instead of TWL, which is proven to quickly and consistently lead to the drastic decline of the Zones population, until the next TWDT when the Operating Team advertises the league (its worth noting: peoples experiences playing TWDT now promotes itself (imo) as a "this is fun, competitive and not too much commitment: I'll sign up" league for many in this community, without much marketing or explaining)

Can you please explain why you're confident in your assessment that it would cost 50% of the population?

Its never been done in TW. How can you know, and then, to a number of 50?

It has been done in another Zone in the same game as this Zone.

There isn't a star cap in Hockey Zone (HZ) fwiw: an example of a difference. With some variations that meet the TW populations wants, it may lead to what we've seen with HZ since Beer League was introduced:

• Increased activity from inactive players
• Increased activity from active players
• New players from presently active and inactive Zones other than TW (ie SVS, HZ, EG, DSB players). Theres now 3 full TW teams (and many on other teams) playing in HZ Beer League. Initially, there was 2
• Beer League rosters from HZ today during Season 4 (https://rshl.org/ci/index.php?c=rosters&LS=187) versus Beer League HZ Season 1 (https://www.rshl.org/ci/index.php?c=...=154&c=rosters)

[Bluff]

Please, I ask and recommend that your team continue to seek community input, in various and authentic ways.

Ideas are great, but:

Along with collecting and considering opinions for qualitative reasons, polls can help indicate public perception sometimes, despite perceived voter fatigue, the margin of error re accuracy, etc.

I dislike stealth mode planning for these Leagues. Unless im missing something: some reasons to share early and often:

• Limiting re-occurances of what caused the last 2-3 month delay between TWDT seasons, despite the post-season HYPE that came with last TWDT
• Recruiting volunteers
• Overall community engagement (which helps with activity)

Dwopple,

I appreciate that you've continued to listen to many voices, even when there are disagreements with a set of choices or decisions.

And we have disagreed; publically and privately. As people with different view points and lived experiences, it may happen again. Imo, that can be a helpful tool for communal growth.

I'd be willing to help anyway I can. Even with some of the (seemingly) half-baked ratings for some of these players. More eyes means more accurate ratings.

[Vys]

43÷5=8.6 - lineup example 10/9/8.5/8/7.5
69÷8=8.6

The star cap should be based off high mid-tier players to keep the games balanced and competitive. At the moment it only caters to top tier players and low star players.
I get we want to make it more inclusive for lower stars, but when players from their respective league are being benched and then something isnt right.
if you're a low star in your respective league and you get benched and then I suggest you start practicing and getting better.

I think a panel of 3 top tier players in warbird are given the spreadsheet of signups and they complete it independently and then collate the scores together at the end. Same applies for jav and then maybe 5 basers for base. At the moment it lies solely down to thunder chat, it would be good to see people from outside of the chat to also be on the panel.