Backlash

[THE ENFORCER]

Bob (SRB), if you think that then by the same princple you have to support censorship in the Howard Stern controversy and i think by memory you werent so i would like to hear your opnion on why its different (maybe i am wrong about your stance). Although i agree that wrestling should only be watched by 14-15 year olds WWE does spend alot of money in conveying the consequences in "backyard" wrestling and before each show has a warning. And i remember that case you cited and wrestling did a slightly bad wrap from it however the fact is WWE actively trys to stop kids from doing this where many other programs (radio programs) dont do this, if they did then i wouldnt have such a problem that such programs should be censored.

[Gemfire]

You have to admit though, seeing some guy jump on a rope, and do a backflip, off the SIDE of the arena, hitting his target like a bullseye, WITHOUT looking...takes some skill....

[Bob (SRB)]

I didn't say that there is no skill involved in that kind of wrestling. There obviously is, the actors probably spend hours training and practicing their stunts. But that is not the reason why i dislike wrestling. The enforcer, remind me again about the howard stern topic and i will give you my opinion on it... if you want to hear it

[Gemfire]

Youre saying you dont like it because its homo-erotic..(not true...)....and only dumb people watch it. Am I correct?

[Facetious]

And my point is that the reason people find "pro" wrestling homoerotic is the same reason they find "real" wrestling homoerotic. If you think the presence or lack of actual competition makes a difference in that then you're just backtracking. Real wrestling is more common in the States than it is here in Canada, and up here, wrestlers ARE put down as being gay and ARE being outcast for it. Do you expect me to go to a ninety pound ninth grader crying in the locker room wanting to quit wrestling because people are making fun of him for "rolling around on mats with guys" and say to him: "don't worry, just go tell them that it's alright because it's an actual sport!"?

You are still making a connection I've never made. I have never called a real wrestler gay just because he wrestles, I will never call a real wrestler gay, either. I haven't even called any professional wrestlers gay. As a matter of fact, I didn't even call professional wrestling fans gay. All I said was that staged acts of half naked men touching each other appeared to be homo-erotic to me. I think it is well within my rights as a "moral forum person" to say that, and while I am sorry that you were offended by my comment, I think you're not taking what I'm saying at all in the context that I'm saying it. Tell that ninth grader whatever you want, it has nothing to do with me making a point about professional wrestling on an internet forum.

That's only part of what offended me about those two posts however. What offended me as well was the stereotypes you both attached to people who do like wrestling. I cannot understand how you can make fun of wrestling fans' intelligence and yet still be narrow minded enough to use homophobic stereotypes. I mean, you don't have to like wrestling. Not everybody does, and that's alright. What isn't alright is why you have to go make fun of those who do.

I mean, maybe in Canada real wrestling is considered bad and homo-erotic, and professional wrestling is considered the UPN-televised equivelant of Hamlet, but in my life, all I've seen professional wrestling do is propagate harm. When I was younger, in kindergarten or first grade, the kids that watched professional wrestling would hit the other kids and tackle them to the ground and say they were wrestling, and use stupid wrestling terminolgy as they were doing it, sometimes leaving the other kids crying. Sexism runs rampant througout nearly every episode, from what I've seen, and there iappears to be no positive values involved in it, whatsoever. I put it on the same level of entertainment as Jerry Springer, only it happens to have more half-naked men touching each other. I really do not have a problem whatsoever criticizing such a trashy practice, and while perhaps it was outside my bounds to stereotype the types of people that I would assume would watch such garbage, it truly didn't occur to me that there were very many people of any level of intelligence that would be entertained by it.

[Troll King]

Troll King, the wrestling you are talking about is the REAL kind of wrestling right? the greco-roman wrestling in the olympics? Well if this is true, i was not referring to that wrestling at all. I have a great respect for people who participate in the real sport of wrestling, it takes skill, strength and lots of talent. What i was putting down so mercilessly was that fake wwf garbage. Just another mass media plot to sell all this crap to people who dont know any better. And it gets worse, many morons who watch this fake wrestling try to perform it themselves. I read a story about a 15 year old boy who tried a wrestling move on a little 8 year old girl and killed her. Yet, nothing changes, the WWF basically gets no bad publicity. And you know what all this is putting in little kid's heads who dont know any better? extreme violence, hurting people, violence against women, and basically de-humanizing women in general. Think of all the mislead little 12 year olds whos idol is STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN!! instead of someone like David Suzuki, it makes me sick. Fake wrestling is the crap of the Earth and we would surely have a better planet without it. So that is why i bashed fake wrestling so much, i hope you find those reasons at least somewhat legitimate.

Also, what i have a problem with is that people enjoy fake wrestling solely because of the staged violence of people beating on eachother. I dont know what the human infatuation with this violence is, but it is sick. I dont understand how an intelligent human being can watch people trash talk eachother, then proceed start beating the crap out of eachother. Then, of course, some other guy comes in and cheap-shots someone from behind with a chair. Then some women with big fake breasts come in yelling and beating on eachother. That stuff is set at such a low intelligence level, i fail to understand how anyone with a decently working brain can be amused by that garbage. That is why i said that people that like fake wrestling arent smart. I stick with that opinion, an only exception would be if people liked that fake wrestling for a different reason. But at this point, I cant think of any other reason why someone would like wrestling.

Well I'm glad to see you actually have some meaningful legitimate arguments. It's just too bad that you waited until after we called you on the homophobia and other stereotypes you presented earlier. Too bad you still fall back on insulting people for liking wrestling. I'm not sure if you realized it, but you must have called me an idiot or something similar almost a half dozen times so far.

Are you one of those people who thinks that video games cause people to be more violent, because it's the exact same argument only with video games the audience is actively playing the violent roles. Quite frankly, according to your concerns, I would think that video games are more damaging in that regard.

The thing about pro wrestling that many people don't get is that it is an artform. There is an art to being a good wrestler. Think about it: the moves that they used are designed to look like they cause a lot of pain but in reality do very little. The best wrestlers are those who can maximize the perception of pain while minimizing the actual pain received. There's also something called "ring psychology". There's a flow that goes into a good match that can play the crowd like a marionette, combinations of movements that can subtly adjust the tension in the crowd, can tease them along towards one direction but then move in an altogether different one.

[Exotic]

i remember i watched WCW when i was little, i hated WWF because i knew it was fake, and i thought WCW was real. Then when WCW was sold, i started watching WWF until it was changed into WWE,it got really boring and i guess i just outgrew it. i miss all the stupid and funny characters, like undertaker being a goth and the guy with the rubber ban on his beard. and ofcourse its not real, but the guys do get hurt when they do flips and stuff, like when sid vicious just jumped off the tope rope and his entire right leg bent the wrong way.

[THE ENFORCER]

I didn't say that there is no skill involved in that kind of wrestling. There obviously is, the actors probably spend hours training and practicing their stunts. But that is not the reason why i dislike wrestling. The enforcer, remind me again about the howard stern topic and i will give you my opinion on it... if you want to hear it

About the FCC's ability to censor programs (radio) that are seen as "offensive" by the community.

People argue thats an infringement on freedom of speech.

Facetious you are such a hyprocrit! How can you argue against censorship of radio and for censorship of wrestling! You cant cherry pick here.

[Capital Knockers]

hey bob, you really live in ottawa? im in orleans, did you go downtown at all for 420

(sorry for going off topic, but ya whateveR)

[Gemfire]

the howard stern thing is off topic too

[THE ENFORCER]

the howard stern thing is off topic too

No its not

[Gemfire]

the WWE's Backlash, is in no way related to Howard Stern getting taken off the air, etc =p

[THE ENFORCER]

Gemfire, facetious and Bob (srb) are talking about the negative effects wrestling has on children and thus the censorship of wrestling to these children that is the exact same argument used in the howard stern controversy!

[Troll King]

Bob argued earlier that wrestling was a bad media influence on people, especially children, so The Enforcer asked if Bob held the same stance on the Howard Stern issue. I think Enforcer thought Bob had held an opinion on that topic in another thread on Stern but I think he must have mistaken him for Sarien or maybe BZ on that score.

His mention of that is no different than my asking if Bob had the same opinion on video games promoting violence in a previous response. So in that regard, if you guys continue to pick on Enforcer for that, you might as well pick on my point on video games.

I wouldn't though, as they are both still very much on the topic.

[Facetious]

I don't think either of us were saying that professional wrestling should be forced off the air, just that we didn't understand why anyone would watch it, because it's dumb. In my mind, the Howard Stern metaphor applies, but only in a "Why would someone get so aloof and haughty in defending something as obviously trashy and pointless as Howard Stern" sense. While I in no way think Howard Stern should be censored, and I think he has the right to be on the air, I definitely understand why someone would think his show was pointless and stupid, and from a sexual side of things, I would understand why someone would say "you must have problems with your sexual identity if you're going to watch something as twisted as Howard Stern", although I, myself, wouldn't agree with the sentiment.

If I was Garrison Keillor, and someone attacked Howard Stern, and I said "radio is my life, if you attack something that's vaguely similar to what I've done with my life, you're attacking me, too, you're the worst person ever", it would be make no sense. That is where the Howard Stern metaphor lies with me in this discussion.

I know you guys like professional wrestling, but you have to admit that it's kind of stupid, and you have to understand that it's pretty damn confusing for an outsider to understand why you'd like it. It's fine to like stupid things, I like a decent amount of stupid TV shows. I like The Real World, for instance. It sucks, and has no value, and I like it. But at least I admit it sucks, and if someone criticized Brad or Cameron, I wouldn't go on an obnoxious crusade to crucify that person based on a connection that made no sense.