[TW MAFIA] Western Chronicles

[field]

Not done with my writeup yet.. and I'll be out for the night. So pushing it till tomorrow.

[fiS]

I'd also like to say this for everyone.
I was a Vanilla Townie from start and told that I'd become SK when the "bar maid" dies. Until UC's death I never had an idea who it could be. I was somewhat a little special VT and I liked the role, actually thought it was little OP but:
Vanilla Townies are underrated. Vanilla Townies are great. Yes, you have no ability, but you can conclude stuff by only reading, gut feelings and maybe voting patterns. Nobody should ever complain being a Vanilla Townie. I enjoyed being Vanilla even if I had no outlook of becoming a SK.

[Voth]

Word. Nice work Voth, you lynched a townie. So I've got a couple (drunken) questions. When did paul claim to you? Did he just happen to have a perfect investigation group? Why did you never ask for a role claim?

Zeebu, I strongly considered conceding before you died to let you have this one. But I'm not that type. However, I deem the current setup unwinnable, and therefore concede the game in towns favor.
It is my hope that town acknowledges the conditions of willby 1.0 and rodney 1.0 towards their victory. Without their contributions, the mafia could have pulled something out. Furthermore, I'd like to thank fiS, for killing ixt. Nothing else needs to be said.
I'm probably missing something, but in summary gg

Realized I never answered these, sorry.

Paul claimed to me on May 6 at 11 AM. I believe this was Day 2, before Exalt had been lynched. This was HUGE that he did this, because we collaborated a lot from here out on who to investigate, etc. Gutsy call on his part.

He clearly shared everyone in suspecting Missa was scum and investigated her Night 1. I was going to push for her lynching Day 2 anyway but the guilty result was gravy. Night 2, we talked and decided to have him
investigate Rodney, because Scurvys random one post and vote on me was super scummy. We almost went for ixt, which would have been a mistake obviously.

I never asked you for a roleclaim because the way I had the use of my incarceration timed out, it was impossible for me to lose. Did not care if the last was you or zeebu, because either way Mafia was going to lose. I knew I could confirm Soild as town because he claimed
Bodyguard to me and the only one to counterclaim was Rodney, who flipped scum.

[fiS]

Yeah well I don't think the game was easy or obvious. With three killing roles literally everything could have happened. But once there is something like a "confirmed" or trustworthy townie and he manages to coordinate everything in the background, it's getting easier for town.

I say we try a game with only mafia being able to pm each other. Maybe we can throw in a role that allows pm, I know there's roles like that to spice it up.
It's a nice challenge for town, too.

Regarding hosting: I don't have time to host the next few weeks.

[Soilderz]

Agreed with voth and tp, but i dont care too much, if people don't want the PM thing then im fine with it. But it's not in any way a game breaking thing that makes it 99-1 for townies lol. It's not like you're screenshotting your role PM from the host and shows each other or something cheaty like that.

[Voth]

I've also almost never seen a scum victory in all the time I've played TW mafia. It only happens when the game is huge and full of really dumb players. That's no longer the case these days, and besides, every single forum mafia site in existence forbids allowing town to pm each other unless they are specific roles like Neighbors, Siblings, Lovers, etc. By allowing town to pm each other, mafia have almost no chance of winning at all. Town isnt supposed to have it so easy. By default, scum should always have the advantage, but that's never the case here.

Just like Paul said, if he was unable to PM, town could have lost. With two perfect scum kills in a row down, it still didnt matter at all. He absolutely should have been forced to either suicide with results or stay silent, but he got around it with town PMs that aren't allowed anywhere else on the internet for a reason. It ruins the game really. There's no way to balance against it without just making all town Vanilla, and then nobody would be happy.

Imo, the only real way to make the game fair for both sides is for everyone to stop the PMs. Otherwise, scum should just concede every game, because not even perfect play is enough to win most games. It's supposed to be 50-50 for town/scum wins, not 99-1.

This game was in no way a blowout. This actually played out to a final 2-1 lynch on Day 6 for town to win. Tons of things could have led to a mafia win too, such as if they did not kill Fis and if I did not have and properly use the Marshall power.

I do not know what else you want, mafia had this game by the balls from day 1. If you had active mafia players, it would have been a different story.

[the_paul]

You guys do realize that we actually won that game by a razor thin margin, right? I had to claim to someone I didn?t trust, and he didn?t trust me. I also got exclusively guilty results, so up until the game ended we couldn?t even be sure that I wasn?t a paranoid cop. If the hit on Fis was directed at someone else, we would almost certainly have lost. This wasn?t some steam rolled game, this was quite literally a game of inches that came down to a couple of unfortunate (for them) decisions by the mafia.

[the_paul]

I?ve been a part of many, many mafia victories on these forums. And in many of them, we used PMs to our advantage as well. So we?re saying now it makes more sense to let the Mafia win based on 1 kill? I?ve been gone awhile, and it seems like the meta really has changed quite a bit. I guess if the consensus is just to water the game down and make it easier for bad players to be successful, then it was a fun distraction while it lasted.

Well played again Voth. Mafia faced indentical circumstances last game, and none of us complained even though we also had 2 inactive members and town benefited from PMs. Not sure what was different this game to cause such a fuss.

[ixt]

chill, i am aware of these issues as i have done so in the past as well. but hey, theres the possibility someone pretends to be townie and in reality is mafia. so its not ALWAYS the case, but the problem in all fairness, true

[Exalt]

Agreed, I do not think I have ever played a TW mafia game where town was forbidden from using PMs. I think that if we did that, town would have a tremendously difficult time winning. PMs are not a huge advantage, as there is always a chance someone is being scummy privately, and you have to account for that.

Thanks for the kind words. I do think that Fis getting killed by mafia was the turning point in the game. The scum was pretty clear in this game, and we still almost lost. I am actually shocked that Zeebu was not the last scum, so very well played Willby.

I've also almost never seen a scum victory in all the time I've played TW mafia. It only happens when the game is huge and full of really dumb players. That's no longer the case these days, and besides, every single forum mafia site in existence forbids allowing town to pm each other unless they are specific roles like Neighbors, Siblings, Lovers, etc. By allowing town to pm each other, mafia have almost no chance of winning at all. Town isnt supposed to have it so easy. By default, scum should always have the advantage, but that's never the case here.

Just like Paul said, if he was unable to PM, town could have lost. With two perfect scum kills in a row down, it still didnt matter at all. He absolutely should have been forced to either suicide with results or stay silent, but he got around it with town PMs that aren't allowed anywhere else on the internet for a reason. It ruins the game really. There's no way to balance against it without just making all town Vanilla, and then nobody would be happy.

Imo, the only real way to make the game fair for both sides is for everyone to stop the PMs. Otherwise, scum should just concede every game, because not even perfect play is enough to win most games. It's supposed to be 50-50 for town/scum wins, not 99-1.

[Undercut]

Rodney has officially replaced scurvy on my scum list. That leaves us with:
Exalt
Missa
Willby
Rodney

Zeebu seems a bit sketchy to me as well. A miller claim this early just doesn?t sit well with me.

Sorry zeebu, but you were in fact sketchy.

[ixt]

You can start a signup thread, and use a smaller setup if you want to host. Otherwise I can tackle the next one, though I'd like a bit more time to sit on my current setup

your setup is one i can appreciate, creating more unknown roles that arent seen on information sets, thus villagers cant straight up pinpoint the potential mafia team setup is. Some potential setups i can do with the quick version are 9-man 10-man and 12-man ideas...thoughts?

[Zeebu]

I like the smaller 9 person one, though the phases, especially first day, last longer. Probably a minimum of 5 days until 5 votes on one person is achieved, then it ends immediately. Ixt go check the mafiascum forums and specifically the newbie games setup. Would be interesting. Plus with only 9 people we could probably oust the inactive folks quickly

[WillBy]

if it ends up having to play this style, i could host the faster version if needed. however, the smaller group playstyle is very much more effective via audio chat since the roles are very limited in what can be in play. hopefully we can try to pool in a fair number of players

You can start a signup thread, and use a smaller setup if you want to host. Otherwise I can tackle the next one, though I'd like a bit more time to sit on my current setup

[ixt]

if it ends up having to play this style, i could host the faster version if needed. however, the smaller group playstyle is very much more effective via audio chat since the roles are very limited in what can be in play. hopefully we can try to pool in a fair number of players