someone give me a new reason why it's worth an hour of my time to vote

[Jason]

wouldn't surprise me

[Vykromond]

How is Indiana treating you, Jay?

[pv=nrt]

According to the logic you guys are using. America has 59 million ignorant people and 55 million elightened persons that vote.
Believe it or not, a majority of people are not liberal like you. Just because someone's opinion is different does not make them wrong or ignorant. I find it rather amazing how it appears that most of you guys are so quick to call people names and labels, when you are standing for the party that supposedly protects freedoms and rights. Am I free to have a differing opinion, or just the opinion that matches yours otherwise I shouldn't be allowed to vote. The way some of you have been posting you are sounding almost facsist. This statement extends to other threads also, not just on this thread.

btw, Since those "ignorant people" are so stupid, how come you couldn't trick them into voting for Kerry?

[Twerp]

Go pv! :headbang:

[Jason]

I base my opinions on my own personal experiences, pv. When I talk to friends and relatives who voted for Bush, I ask them straightforward questions. They give me straightforward answers. My uncle tells me he is against the war in Iraq. He tells me money is incredible tight for my aunt and him. He tells me that he doesn't feel particularly vulnerable to terrorism. I ask him why he voted for Bush. He tells me that God would cast away gays at the gates of heaven, and as a nation, so should we cast them away. He tells me that George W. Bush is a candidate endorsed by God.

Ignorance is the only logical explanation I can think of to explain my uncle's behavior. It is my understanding that his behavior mirrors that of a large majority of Bush supporters.

This is as blunt as I can be, I'm afraid. If I come across as lumping those who disagree with me into a category labeled "fucking morons", so be it. That is not my intent, however.

[Jerome Scuggs]

According to the logic you guys are using. America has 59 million ignorant people and 55 million elightened persons that vote.
Believe it or not, a majority of people are not liberal like you. Just because someone's opinion is different does not make them wrong or ignorant. I find it rather amazing how it appears that most of you guys are so quick to call people names and labels, when you are standing for the party that supposedly protects freedoms and rights. Am I free to have a differing opinion, or just the opinion that matches yours otherwise I shouldn't be allowed to vote. The way some of you have been posting you are sounding almost facsist. This statement extends to other threads also, not just on this thread.

btw, Since those "ignorant people" are so stupid, how come you couldn't trick them into voting for Kerry?

wow pv

i...love you

[lunch3]

pv kicks ass, it is as simple as that.

[Jason]

Did I dream that I typed the post prior to this one? Is any of this real? Do I exist? Does Jerome know when to quit?

[Twerp]

The answer to all of those questions are "no"

hehe

[Jerome Scuggs]

Does Jerome know when to quit?

rofl

i think this one was answered before it was asked

edit: oh and about the ignorance thing, it honestly comes down to what he believes in. the bible says no gays, so be it. some people have faith in a higher deity, but does that mean you can call them ignorant? they can say the same about you, for believing in...whatever you believe in.

[Jason]

I most certainly can call them ignorant. They vote for Bush based on the premise that homosexuality is a sin and their God cries every time an unborn fetus is terminated. They have absolutely no solid evidence to support this claim. I have plenty of solid evidence to support my claims that Bush's economic policies are going to hit me so hard I'll barely be able to eat. And the kicker, my uncle is in the same exact position as me. He is going to be in for some hard times, and he KNOWS it, yet still chooses to vote against his own best interests because of religious beliefs. Believe in what you will. I won't knock you for being a Christian. I will knock you for being dumb enough to shoot yourself in the foot simply because you think that by voting Bush you're pleasing a God that isn't going to be dropping loaves of bread into your lap and making money grow on the trees in your back yard.

Pardon me for appealing to logic and common sense. They're blinded by faith to the point of ignorance. That's that.

[Jerome Scuggs]

I most certainly can call them ignorant. They vote for Bush based on the premise that homosexuality is a sin and their God cries every time an unborn fetus is terminated. They have absolutely no solid evidence to support this claim. I have plenty of solid evidence to support my claims that Bush's economic policies are going to hit me so hard I'll barely be able to eat. And the kicker, my uncle is in the same exact position as me. He is going to be in for some hard times, and he KNOWS it, yet still chooses to vote against his own best interests because of religious beliefs. Believe in what you will. I won't knock you for being a Christian. I will knock you for being dumb enough to shoot yourself in the foot simply because you think that by voting Bush you're pleasing a God that isn't going to be dropping loaves of bread into your lap and making money grow on the trees in your back yard.

Pardon me for appealing to logic and common sense. They're blinded by faith to the point of ignorance. That's that.

I'd have to say you're being blinded as well: there is no middle ground, in your eyes. It's either a) vote Stupid, vote Jesus, vote Bush, or b) vote Smart, vote Utopia, vote Kerry. I mean, why can't someone vote because, I dunno, they like Bush/Kerry as a person?

As for the Religious issue, there is a source - the Bible. To accuse the Hebrews of writing that piece of literature to simply justify voting Bush is, well, you know.

OK I just went driving with my mom, and I asked her: Why did she vote for Bush? She answered the proverbial "None of the Above" to your reasons why people voted Bush: she believes in the war. Minus a few relatives and all, she believes in the war on terror. Why? "Hell, Clinton sat around and watched them bomb the WTC and the USS Cole and nothing happened, and Bush might not be right - he probably is wrong about the entire war - but at least he's trying. For oil? Liberal garbage. If he wanted oil he'd have tapped ANWR."

-To date, I think les people have died in Iraq than the one day at the WTC.

So anyways, I ask my mom: what about the economy? She says: it's not great, but we're happy.

Tax cut? "Oh, we're doing fine. We get enough tax relief." Enough to support two adolescent kids, their internet addictions, one's new car, the new car and other car's gasoline, and their father's almost-perfect vinyl record collection. And yes, I am definitely middle class. What do my parents do? Schoolteacher; probation officer.

My cousin Jason Seivert, just out of college - he's doing fine. He supports him and his live-with-him girlfriend in his new house, working as a mechanic. His girl works at a dine-in restaurant as a waitress. He has found the money to pursue "extreme" sporting - snowboarding, sand-railing, etc. He voted Bush on the premise of "what the godamn are these 'plans' Kerry keeps talking about, he sounds as elusive and tricky as the administration he was supposedly fighting."

My girlfriend's parents, together: both are entrepreneurs of their own businesses. Mrs. Figlio has a new fledgeling coffeeshop downtown, and Mr. Figlio owns a tree pruning/removal service. They didn't even bat an eye about voting Bush, he's way better on small business than Kerry, according to them.

So I dunno man, maybe it's hard times whereever you live, but as far as I know all scenarios of middle class families i live with / interact with on a normal basis seem to be pretty pro-bush economically.

And yes, they're all christian. They support the ban on gay marriage, and on abortion. But they make informed choices, they aren't ignorant. And that's what makes me angry - false accusations.

etc. etc.

[Jason]

I'm not blinded at all. I'm fully aware that the anything-but-Bush choice has its downfalls. I'm fully aware that they could reincarnate John F. Kennedy and stick him in the White House and even he would have a hell of a time fixing the mess we're in. I'm simply frustrated to the point of sheer bewilderment as to how people can vote against their own best interests in the name of religion. And it's those people I'm labeling ignorant, not the people who weighed the issues and made an informed decision.

And Jerome, just out of curiosity, what is your annual household income? I really don't think we're on the same page here. It sounds to me as though your family isn't in the same tax bracket as those whom I'm defending. I'm talking rural America, which is poor as fuck and comprises the greatest majority of our nation.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

I'd have to say you're being blinded as well: there is no middle ground, in your eyes. It's either a) vote Stupid, vote Jesus, vote Bush, or b) vote Smart, vote Utopia, vote Kerry. I mean, why can't someone vote because, I dunno, they like Bush/Kerry as a person?

Because voting for a president (for arguably the most powerful country in the world) shouldn't be decided like you'd pick a goddamn kickball captain.

The problem I have is this: yeah, maybe your life is comfortable or fairly comfortable. Mine is--I've never questioned that. But to not take others well-being into consideration is kind of unconscionable to me.

The fact of the matter is that I can feel my standard of life changing for the worse. Legislation passed in the last four years doesn't reflect my personal sentiment at all, and in some cases literally causes me to do things I wouldn't have otherwise thought twice about (or vice versa). I especially don't like the government telling people how they can or cannot do things that don't harm anyone else--I thought the Republican's whole platform was smaller federal government, anyway.

As far as Bush being this great leader, I just don't see it. I haven't seen him roll out some great New Deal or something similar. All I've seen him do is react forcefully (Afghanistan, which I can safely say we all think is a great idea at least at it's core) and react in a knee-jerk manner (Iraq, which was a bad idea from the start). Non-selective pre-emptive war may be a good idea if your name was Charles the Great and lived in 8th century Europe, but it's not exactly applicable to 21st century world politics. I could go on and on about how I think he's a jackass, but I've written it twenty other places on this board. You get my gist.

I won't go into detail, because I should really get to bed, but a lot of the stuff you describe doesn't make me feel any better about the people who voted for Bush. I'm sure your family is full of wonderful people who are quite intelligent, but it still floors me that people would rather vote for someone they know is doing bad than someone who just might do bad. That's fucking ridiculous sounding in my head. Are you all that pessimistic to think that things can only get worse with different tactics? Fuck, all you have to do to get a general outline of what Kerry wanted to do was look at his website. If you wanted the information, you could get it. Not knowing at that point is a personal issue.

My point is: I don't know how you could vote for the man if you've read about all the shit he's done. Plain and simple. I could compile pages upon pages of things that this administration has done wrong. My idea being: if something's broken, why not at least try and fix it.

[Sarien]

Because voting for a president (for arguably the most powerful country in the world) shouldn't be decided like you'd pick a goddamn kickball captain.

I voted for Kerry because he told me if I did we could make out later under the bleachers.