Research 9/11

[Liquid Blue]

He's trying to find some way of looking down on others, to find his own place in the pecking order. Hence his copy-pastes, his conspiracy theories, his general "I know more than you, let me teach you, and set you free" attitude.

Uh, I thought some loners did this to compensate for their stunted social skills. Doesn't matter much though, 4 pages and I don't really think he's posted any of his own stuff. Just seems to be a bunch of links and regurgitated stuff he's gotten from other people.

[Tone]

Uh, I thought some loners did this to compensate for their stunted social skills. Doesn't matter much though, 4 pages and I don't really think he's posted any of his own stuff. Just seems to be a bunch of links and regurgitated stuff he's gotten from other people.

i posted my 9/11 notes, the ones that panda girl thought i pasted from another forum which i posted on. also, anything not in a quote box is mine. look at my signature and stream this now, the guests are now comming on after the break:

www.kogo.com/streaming.html

if you prefer using your AM radio over streaming, you do have an AM affilate near by, all 50 states and everyone in the country does practically:

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/info/wheretolisten.html

9-11 Roundtable
Peter Lance and Mike Levine will team up against David Ray Griffin and Alex Jones to discuss whether Muslims acted alone on 9-11, or not.


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[Kolar]

Your "notes" lack credible evidence and professional testimony or logical explainations, they're not facts, all of this shit is in your head. Tinfoil hat making, Ultra liberal retards debating this crap? I'd love for the republicans to throw them in jail for maybe 10-15 years. An expert in economics of labor, that's the best you have so far?


Again there's much more blood on the surface of the republican party, why not try to connect them through the real attack, the planes, or connection the terrorist though the massive amounts of money sent to them to fight the russians? Maybe then you'll get more then 5 people who won't right out call you a fucking idiot.

Edit: Or just look at their policies, what else do you really need besides that to know that they're way beyond being corrupt.

[Tone]

Your "notes" lack credible evidence and professional testimony or logical explainations, they're not facts, all of this shit is in your head. Tinfoil hat making, Ultra liberal retards debating this crap? I'd love for the republicans to throw them in jail for maybe 10-15 years. An expert in economics of labor, that's the best you have so far?


Again there's much more blood on the surface of the republican party, why not try to connect them through the real attack, the planes, or connection the terrorist though the massive amounts of money sent to them to fight the russians? Maybe then you'll get more then 5 people who won't right out call you a fucking idiot.

It is the offical story of 9/11 that lacks any credible evidence, and if you had half a brain to think about who benefits from 9/11 and researched 9/11 in depth , everything from the several confirmed alive hijackers to the collapse of the twin towers to the mass of prior knowlege and CIA ran drills the very same morning, you would see this. heres somwhere for you stupid ass to start: http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html

but before that, look at my signature and stream the kogo link right now. (currently in break, program will resume in about 7 minutes)

[PH]

A classic, and nothing suits this thread (and its starter) better.

[Kolar]

It is the offical story of 9/11 that lacks any credible evidence,

Planes fly into 2 towers, MIT quoted as saying the energy released would melt steel, credible news source saying the temp was far above the needed temp for the steel to lose it's strength at critial parts of the WTC. What's more plausible, professionals and reasonable scienctific explaination explaining everything within reason? or some half ass attempt to disredit the Bush Admin, wait... X that, a half ass attempt with too much work.

and if you had half a brain to think about who benefits from 9/11 and researched 9/11 in depth , everything from the several confirmed alive hijackers to the collapse of the twin towers to the mass of prior knowlege and CIA ran drills the very same morning, you would see this. heres somwhere for you stupid ass to start: ANother retard site

All here say, you have no real evidence, no scientific proof or even a leg to stand on with that crap. Your links are a joke to people here because they all have an objective, they're not news, they're not even factual or concerned about the facts of this case because THEY'RE PUSHING AN IDEA, THEN PICKING AWAY AT CIRCUMSTANTAL EVIDENCE AND CHANGING CURRENT FACTS TO FIT THEIR AGENDA.

You love this shit, you love acting like you're in the know and you're better then everyone else here. It's so bad that you could never even consider another senerio or anything else to have happened. Consider the methods used next time tone and shut the fuck up, take some of this shit to heart or maybe even your brain.

[Squeezer]

That's what I was gonna say.

For someone who copies and pastes half his posts from random Science websites, you sure are falling for a bunch of speculative and circumstancial evidence with no backing from anyone credible, or knowledgable as to what they're talking about. I mean a guy in charge of economics doesn't know shit about how much damage a building can take before crumbling. Things like that, and you're MSPaint drawing of where the planes hit, those things aren't evidence, they're speculation.

Why not copy and paste something that proves your point. Or at least something that's worth a shit.

[Tone]

That's what I was gonna say.

For someone who copies and pastes half his posts from random Science websites, you sure are falling for a bunch of speculative and circumstancial evidence with no backing from anyone credible, or knowledgable as to what they're talking about. I mean a guy in charge of economics doesn't know shit about how much damage a building can take before crumbling. Things like that, and you're MSPaint drawing of where the planes hit, those things aren't evidence, they're speculation.

Why not copy and paste something that proves your point. Or at least something that's worth a shit.

the list of 19 hijackers, for example is speculative with no backing or credibility, especially considering several mainstream news sources including BBC, ABC, NBC etc have reported on alive hijackers. basically we were given 19 pictures and names two days after the attacks without a shred of evidence or credibility. these random tv shows and tv news (of the offical story) are like an outlandish wild conspiracy theory with no backing

[Tone]

Post Deleted

[Squeezer]

the list of 19 hijackers, for example is speculative with no backing or credibility, especially considering several mainstream news sources including BBC, ABC, NBC etc have reported on alive hijackers. basically we were given 19 pictures and names two days after the attacks without a shred of evidence or credibility. these random tv shows and tv news (of the offical story) are like an outlandish wild conspiracy theory with no backing

Ok, but when an entire country is looking for a culprit, and you've got a pretty good idea as to who's behind it, you're going to start naming people who trained with those who died in the plae crash. Perhaps we did name a few too many, but our country wanted answers and they tried their best to sift through the mess and find out who was responsible. Not an easy job, especially with the eyes of the world watching you.

And you say some of them survived, well what of the one's that aren't alive? Did the govt. kill them too? What's that? You have no proof that those who you believe aren't alive didn't fly those planes into the WTC?

Keep speculating, just remember, I'm not the one who looks ignorant.

[Tone]

Ok, but when an entire country is looking for a culprit, and you've got a pretty good idea as to who's behind it, you're going to start naming people who trained with those who died in the plae crash. Perhaps we did name a few too many, but our country wanted answers and they tried their best to sift through the mess and find out who was responsible. Not an easy job, especially with the eyes of the world watching you.

And you say some of them survived, well what of the one's that aren't alive? Did the govt. kill them too? What's that? You have no proof that those who you believe aren't alive didn't fly those planes into the WTC?

Keep speculating, just remember, I'm not the one who looks ignorant.

OK ....

'19 arab hijackers used boxcutters and the ones who failed out of flying school flew the planes into the WTC and pentagon (Lack of wreakage or bodies) and brought both towers down demolision style with the impact and indrect impact which caused a oil tank fire in building 7 which made building 7 turn into dust as it came down demolition style after the CIA that very same morning was running drills of planes flying into buildings and ordered norad to stand down, important people were warned to to fly to the east that day, FBI was told again and again to back off of terrorist groups for months, and 4 mossad agents were arrested in new york filming the attacks'

Got It

OPERATION NORTHWOODS - ABC NEWS

http://abcnews.go.com/US/print?id=92662

U.S. Military Wanted to Provoke War With Cuba
Book: U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba
By David Ruppe

Sep. 30, 2004 - In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.

Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.

The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro.

America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," and, "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation."

Details of the plans are described in Body of Secrets (Doubleday), a new book by investigative reporter James Bamford about the history of America's largest spy agency, the National Security Agency. However, the plans were not connected to the agency, he notes.

The plans had the written approval of all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and were presented to President Kennedy's defense secretary, Robert McNamara, in March 1962. But they apparently were rejected by the civilian leadership and have gone undisclosed for nearly 40 years.

"These were Joint Chiefs of Staff documents. The reason these were held secret for so long is the Joint Chiefs never wanted to give these up because they were so embarrassing," Bamford told ABCNEWS.com.

"The whole point of a democracy is to have leaders responding to the public will, and here this is the complete reverse, the military trying to trick the American people into a war that they want but that nobody else wants."

Gunning for War

The documents show "the Joint Chiefs of Staff drew up and approved plans for what may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government," writes Bamford.

The Joint Chiefs even proposed using the potential death of astronaut John Glenn during the first attempt to put an American into orbit as a false pretext for war with Cuba, the documents show.

Should the rocket explode and kill Glenn, they wrote, "the objective is to provide irrevocable proof … that the fault lies with the Communists et all Cuba [sic]."

The plans were motivated by an intense desire among senior military leaders to depose Castro, who seized power in 1959 to become the first communist leader in the Western Hemisphere — only 90 miles from U.S. shores.

The earlier CIA-backed Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba by Cuban exiles had been a disastrous failure, in which the military was not allowed to provide firepower.The military leaders now wanted a shot at it.

"The whole thing was so bizarre," says Bamford, noting public and international support would be needed for an invasion, but apparently neither the American public, nor the Cuban public, wanted to see U.S. troops deployed to drive out Castro.

Reflecting this, the U.S. plan called for establishing prolonged military — not democratic — control over the island nation after the invasion.

"That's what we're supposed to be freeing them from," Bamford says. "The only way we would have succeeded is by doing exactly what the Russians were doing all over the world, by imposing a government by tyranny, basically what we were accusing Castro himself of doing."

'Over the Edge'

The Joint Chiefs at the time were headed by Eisenhower appointee Army Gen. Lyman L. Lemnitzer, who, with the signed plans in hand made a pitch to McNamara on March 13, 1962, recommending Operation Northwoods be run by the military.

Whether the Joint Chiefs' plans were rejected by McNamara in the meeting is not clear. But three days later, President Kennedy told Lemnitzer directly there was virtually no possibility of ever using overt force to take Cuba, Bamford reports. Within months, Lemnitzer would be denied another term as chairman and transferred to another job.

The secret plans came at a time when there was distrust in the military leadership about their civilian leadership, with leaders in the Kennedy administration viewed as too liberal, insufficiently experienced and soft on communism. At the same time, however, there real were concerns in American society about their military overstepping its bounds.

There were reports U.S. military leaders had encouraged their subordinates to vote conservative during the election.

And at least two popular books were published focusing on a right-wing military leadership pushing the limits against government policy of the day. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee published its own report on right-wing extremism in the military, warning a "considerable danger" in the "education and propaganda activities of military personnel" had been uncovered. The committee even called for an examination of any ties between Lemnitzer and right-wing groups. But Congress didn't get wind of Northwoods, says Bamford.

"Although no one in Congress could have known at the time," he writes, "Lemnitzer and the Joint Chiefs had quietly slipped over the edge."

Even after Lemnitzer was gone, he writes, the Joint Chiefs continued to plan "pretext" operations at least through 1963.

One idea was to create a war between Cuba and another Latin American country so that the United States could intervene. Another was to pay someone in the Castro government to attack U.S. forces at the Guantanamo naval base — an act, which Bamford notes, would have amounted to treason. And another was to fly low level U-2 flights over Cuba, with the intention of having one shot down as a pretext for a war.

"There really was a worry at the time about the military going off crazy and they did, but they never succeeded, but it wasn't for lack of trying," he says.

After 40 Years

Ironically, the documents came to light, says Bamford, in part because of the 1992 Oliver Stone film JFK, which examined the possibility of a conspiracy behind the assassination of President Kennedy.

As public interest in the assassination swelled after JFK's release, Congress passed a law designed to increase the public's access to government records related to the assassination.

The author says a friend on the board tipped him off to the documents.

Afraid of a congressional investigation, Lemnitzer had ordered all Joint Chiefs documents related to the Bay of Pigs destroyed, says Bamford. But somehow, these remained.

"The scary thing is none of this stuff comes out until 40 years after," says Bamford.

Copyright © 2005 ABC News Internet Ventures

[Squeezer]

Ok...

Our government, in a scheme to get us into war, for no reason other than to go to war, decided that they were going to sacrifice about 1,000 innocent people, in front of our entire county, by having them burned to death, or crushed by the force of a falling building, as well as temporarily cripple our economy, and risk the start of a major war, all because our president had some hidden agenda, which he refuses to share with the country, because people would be terrified to know that our president hates terrorists, or people like Osama Bin Laden and Sadam Hussein. Not only that, but to cover up the fact that it was a bombing (because it's not like the terrorists had already tried to bomb the WTC buildings or anything) they had proffesional pilots, who were willing to sacrifice themselves for our presidents "Secret Cause" fly themselves into these buildings, just to make the coverup more real. What's more, we decided that knocking down the WTC towers, and striking the pentagon weren't enough to send the country into a hysteria, we had to take a decoy plane, and crash it out in the middle of nowhere, Pennsylvania, and find the black box, in which a man who was proven to be on the flight said that it had been taken by Arab terrorists, then retaken by the hostages, just so that the Hoax would seem that much more believable.

Right, you're logic makes much more sense than mine.

[Tone]

Ok...

Our government, in a scheme to get us into war, for no reason other than to go to war, decided that they were going to sacrifice about 1,000 innocent people, in front of our entire county, by having them burned to death, or crushed by the force of a falling building, as well as temporarily cripple our economy, and risk the start of a major war, all because our president had some hidden agenda, which he refuses to share with the country, because people would be terrified to know that our president hates terrorists, or people like Osama Bin Laden and Sadam Hussein. Not only that, but to cover up the fact that it was a bombing (because it's not like the terrorists had already tried to bomb the WTC buildings or anything) they had proffesional pilots, who were willing to sacrifice themselves for our presidents "Secret Cause" fly themselves into these buildings, just to make the coverup more real. What's more, we decided that knocking down the WTC towers, and striking the pentagon weren't enough to send the country into a hysteria, we had to take a decoy plane, and crash it out in the middle of nowhere, Pennsylvania, and find the black box, in which a man who was proven to be on the flight said that it had been taken by Arab terrorists, then retaken by the hostages, just so that the Hoax would seem that much more believable.

Right, you're logic makes much more sense than mine.

the operation northwoods example is right above your post. thats what they do. Problem - Reaction - solution. its whats been done through history, another example is the Reichstag fire in 1933 once hitler came to power

[Squeezer]

See the thing about your whole Northwoods argument is this:

IT NEVER FUCKING HAPPENED

because when you become president, you at least have enough intellegence to know that attacking your own country is bad....especially since it was only his first term, he still had something to lose.

[Tone]

FLight 93 in PA....taken down by hero passengers? i think not....

'Crash debris found 8 miles away '
By Debra Erdley
TRIBUNE-REVIEW

Stonycreek Township, Somerset County, farmers (from left) William Flamm, Meno Yoder, an unidentified farmer and David Scott watch Thursday as a state police helicopter circles their farm fields looking for evidence from the crash of United Airlines Flight 93. Scott said the FBI agents had tagged corn stalks in fields where debris from the crash had been found. (S.C. Spangler/Tribune-Review photo)

A southeasterly wind and a 3-year-old's keen eye brought the crash of United Airlines Flight 93 home to a family in tiny New Baltimore borough, more than eight miles from the Somerset County crash site.

Three-year-old Hunter Stoe was helping his father, Andy, with the trash Wednesday night when he spied a slip of paper on the grass near the trash can.

When Andy Stoe glanced at the paper, ready to toss it in the trash, he saw it was a charred payroll check made out to Antonio B. Costa of San Jose, Calif.

Investigators now concede the canceled check and a portion of a charred brokerage statement Stoe found nearby on Thursday afternoon are from the crash.

Costa, a 59-year-old construction worker, was not a passenger on Flight 93.

"He's here and fine," his daughter-in-law Leeza Costa said from her San Jose home yesterday afternoon. "We can't figure out how it got there unless maybe they were moving mail or documents for a bank."

Stoe said authorities initially insisted crash debris could not have traveled over a mountain ridge more than eight miles from the crash.

Andy Stoe and son, Hunter. look at a charred payroll check for a San Jose, Calif., man who was not a passinger on United Airlines Flight 93. Hunter found the check outside his New Baltimore home. (S.C. Spangler/Tribune-Review photo)

Late yesterday afternoon, however, FBI Special Agent Bill Crowley said experts from the National Transportation Safety Board had checked weather reports and determined that lightweight materials might well have traveled over the mountain by a southwest wind that reached a speed of 9 knots.

"The NTSB says it is not only plausible, but probable," said Crowley.

About two miles from the crash site, Ron Trent, a 63-year-old third-generation farmer, never imagined anything like it could happen so close to his home. He was stunned when agents asked him to postpone cutting his hay until they can search the field.

Looking over his farm's rolling hills, Trent shoved his cap back on his head and scratched his chin.

"I believe this country is in a bad situation, the situation this country is in right now, and I don't think it's going to get any better.

"That sure is pretty. I'm sure glad I grew up here. I guess it (the crash) really put Shanksville on the map," he said.

Farther down the road, searchers had tied flags in one of David Scott's cornfields to mark areas they wanted to search more closely.

"It's just too bad we couldn't be on the map for something other than disaster," said Scott, chatting with neighbors William Flamm and Meno Yoder, as a state police helicopter circled low over his fields.

Investigators also descended on nearby Indian Lake. The resort community 2 1/2 miles from the crash also became part of the official search area after small pieces of crash debris were recovered from the 750-acre lake.

John Fleegle, an Indian Lake Marina employee, said FBI agents were skeptical of his reports about debris in the lake until they traveled to the lake shore Wednesday afternoon.

Fleegle, marina owner Jim Brant and two of Brant's employees were among the dozens who witnessed the crash from Indian Lake. Fleegle had just returned to the marina to get fuel for a boat that had run out of gas when Carol Delasko called him into the drydock barn to watch news of the World Trade Center attack.

"All of a sudden the lights flickered and we joked that maybe they were coming for us. Then we heard engines screaming close overhead. The building shook. We ran out, heard the explosion and saw a fireball mushroom," said Fleegle, pointing to a clearing on a ridge at the far end of the lake.

Delasko, who ran outside moments later, said she thought someone had blown up a boat on the lake. "It just looked like confetti raining down all over the air above the lake," she said.

Fleegle, Brant and a fellow marina worker, Tom Spinelli, jumped in a truck and rushed to the crash site.

In the woods, they saw only a crater and tiny pieces of debris.

Fleegle said he climbed on the roof of an abandoned cabin and tossed down a burning seat cushion that had landed there.

By Wednesday morning, crash debris began washing ashore at the marina. Fleegle said there was something that looked like a rib bone amid pieces of seats, small chunks of melted plastic and checks.

He said FBI agents who spent the afternoon patrolling the lake in rented boats eventually carted away a large garbage bag full of debris.

Kate Moses, a former Pittsburgh woman whose retirement home is located near the Indian Lake golf course far from the lake, said she felt the impact from the crash and went to look outside. Later, her neighbor found a brokerage statement for a $2 million stock account had landed in her yard.

"How could that have happened? It's just a horrifying thought. I'll never be the same. I know that," said Moses.

A confirmed Broadway buff who loves New York, Moses said the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the hijacking that ended near her Somerset County home have made her hesitant to even consider traveling to New York anytime soon.

Back in New Baltimore, Andy Stoe is keeping track of everything so he can explain it all to Hunter when the toddler gets a little older.

And he holds the peace of his tiny valley town more precious than ever.