Harry Potter Is Evil!!!!

[Fit of Rage]

So, what you're saying is, if a religion is consisting completely of raping little girls, there's no way to say whether that is right or wrong without using moral judgements from other religions?

Yes.

What does that mean? It means you just did precisely the exact same thing he did, except attempted to dress it up as high brow.
You told him he's free to believe in whatever he likes, just not the particular thing he chooses to believe. (The absence of and speaking out against every other religion.)

So yeah.. you were pretty much the picture of contradicting yourself there.

Belief in this case refers to religious beliefs. I'm guessing he's an atheist? That would explain his "all religion is wrong." Statement. But the bigger problems are these:

-What does "religion" encompass? Belief in a diety/dieties and/or a moral code? If it's merely an adherence to "proper" laws to govern one's life by, then my argument is valid. If it is not, then my argument is flawed.

-Following from the premises above and assuming my argument is VALID, then we conclude that atheists, while denouncing the existance of a God, still govern their lives by an inherent moral code. I contend this moral code is the product of religious doctrine throughout the ages (most prominently the 10 commandments). Even modern pagan religions follow laws such as "Thou shalt not kill."

-Following from the premises above and assuming my argument is FLAWED, then we conclude that moral code has no correlation to deistic worship and the person in question (Glitterkat?) merely believes that religion as he knows it (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc.) is all wrong and that anybody who reads such related scripture is wasting their time.

[Jerome Scuggs]

well the fucking pope can piss off.

all religions are wrong.

fuckin stupid motherfucker wasting his life dressing up like a royal piece of shit and reading the bible all day.

people like this annoy me, because the same people who are always saying that all christians are psychos who believe in a fantasy and are always shoving it into everyone's faces 24/7, go out of their way to insert a "religion is for dummys l0l" in every single place they can.

before we begin name-calling, i'd like to establish that i'm simply a loosely-religious southern baptist (oxymorinic as it sounds). i don't believe in god with "blind faith" (i guess that's why i'm loosely religious), but i've gone through alot in my life that makes me look back and say "there's no way i could have (quite literally) survived that if there wasn't a God above us", and sometimes even faith that whoever's-up-there is watching has helped.

Sarien: this is where I stop taking most religion-naysayers seriously, when they use bogus analogies like "a religion based on raping girls". Find me one major religion that sanctions such behavior from whatever holy scripts they believe in, you won't find one. The reason: because it's immoral!

Tone: 1.5 billion Christians are deluded? Most people attack Christians because they believe in a God. Using this is a basis, you also have to toss in Muslims, Jews, and god-knows-how-many small polytheist religions. I'm sure a majority of people believe in something or another, not just Christians.

I have this real bad habit of writing up a storm then sort of burning out and not finishing, so fuck it

[Theif of Time]

In other news: http://www.exposingsatanism.org/harrypotter2.htm

Correct, 1.5 billion Christians are deluded, thats what we are saying. sound fantastic?

And you aren't? (deluded, that is. To claim you know the truth more than any more than any other person is simply arrogant, when you don't know what they know. A christian gave me the best peice of advice I've had in weeks. Who's deluded?)

[Sarien]

I contend this moral code is the product of religious doctrine throughout the ages (most prominently the 10 commandments). Even modern pagan religions follow laws such as "Thou shalt not kill."

Does this mean you're saying the absence of religion is the absence of a moral compass? I should hope not. I personally am an atheist. I have my own moral compass. I have things that I believe are wrong and right. Sometimes those fall in line with some things of various religions. Several times they don't. Sometimes they don't even fall in line with laws. But I have my own mind, my own will, and the things I personally believe in. Those and my own experiences are what lead me to choose right from wrong.

Sarien: this is where I stop taking most religion-naysayers seriously, when they use bogus analogies like "a religion based on raping girls". Find me one major religion that sanctions such behavior from whatever holy scripts they believe in, you won't find one. The reason: because it's immoral!

Wow, can you say "out of context application of a hypothetical proof", mister Master Debater? I do appreciate that you covered yourself in the usage with such nonspecifics as "one major religion". When in fact, that's the very first instance of major versus minor membership listed in the thread. Next, while you classify me as a "religion naysayer", if you would be so kind as to re-read my post, and in fact most likely any former post of mine on the topic, you will find that I am quite pro-freedom, and enjoy the freedom of choice for each person to make as they will. Choice of religion, free speech, what you're going to have for dinner tonight, abortion, to own a gun legally or not, all of these things are pretty much the same to me. I believe very strongly that it's right to have and express those freedoms, and very wrong to inhibit or remove those choices. You see? I'm not by any stretch of the imagination a religion naysayer. I'm a "let each person believe in the god they want to believe in, or none at all" kind of guy. Neat, eh?

[Theif of Time]

Sarien, you ever heard of the baha'is religion? Of all religions I've heard of that is the one which appeals the most. While I still wouldn't want to follow prayers and readings (which I see as a waste of time, and seemingly one thing that all religions have in common) their beliefs coincide most closely with my own.

[ZeUs!!]

Mike, you're a total fuckwit here. I did not contradict myself. Aside from the fact that the Pope wouldn't be caught calling someone a "motherfucker," there's no contradiction. Everyone is entitled to their own faith--if you believe in a religion, fine. If you don't, fine. His assertion was that all religion is "wrong" and the Pope is "stupid" for reading the Bible all day (he doesn't). My assertion was that you can't define a religion as correct or incorrect because no empirical system exists to define a winner (ie: Sorry everyone! The correct answer was Mormon. All non-Mormons will be sent to hell).

Which rampant re-phrasing further strengthens what I was saying: You really can't argue against someone who says 'fuckin stupid motherfucker wasting his life dressing up like a royal piece of shit and reading the bible all day' whilst convenitently neglecting to comment on any specifics of your first post - the prime example of what I was saying

[Kuukunen]

http://www.bash.org/?111338

[PaulOakenfold]

I'm just shocked that sometimes the Catholic Church and many Christian Churches forget to, "Let the weeds and wheat grow together until harvest," and instead condem all sorts of things in society.

[Pandagirl!]

Wooow freaky, that was the topic of the sermon today at church :fear:

[Jerome Scuggs]

Wow, can you say "out of context application of a hypothetical proof", mister Master Debater? I do appreciate that you covered yourself in the usage with such nonspecifics as "one major religion". When in fact, that's the very first instance of major versus minor membership listed in the thread. Next, while you classify me as a "religion naysayer", if you would be so kind as to re-read my post, and in fact most likely any former post of mine on the topic, you will find that I am quite pro-freedom, and enjoy the freedom of choice for each person to make as they will. Choice of religion, free speech, what you're going to have for dinner tonight, abortion, to own a gun legally or not, all of these things are pretty much the same to me. I believe very strongly that it's right to have and express those freedoms, and very wrong to inhibit or remove those choices. You see? I'm not by any stretch of the imagination a religion naysayer. I'm a "let each person believe in the god they want to believe in, or none at all" kind of guy. Neat, eh?

Okay then, find me any religion.

When a friend of mine told me about this yesterday, my instant response was "Someone should help the old nazi to understand that not every book chock full of mythology is supposed to be taken as seriously as the bible."

Also, the argument of freedom becomes moot at the point where you try to argue Fit's (and mine, i guess) opinions on religion. You advocate the freedom to express whatever and then argue against his opinions. I agree 100% with this thread - I'm not Catholic, I think they're a bunch of fairly strict people, and the whole Harry Potter thing is dumb. You could also call me objectivist even, believing in the concept of freedom and individual rights, et cetera.

[scumbag]

wow, this is great, i start a topic about the pope saying Potter is evil and it turns into a full debate on the truth of religions

ive outdone myself this time

[Cops]

I was waiting for someone to BOLD some highlights of the book like who dies in hopes that someone here kills themself and the world can make a big deal about it being witch craft and not someone killing themself over Harry Potter, oh shit that already happened.

[ZeUs!!]

I am sweaty and very hungry as I have just returned from the gymnasium

[Sarien]

Okay then, find me any religion.

Ok while this is off topic, and you're really not following, I'm going to have to keep you from saying that I can't. So, here are three:
The Family (Formerly Children of God) - http://www.thefamily.org/
Not only tolerated, but indeed promoted it to the point of printing a book about it, not just girls, but boys too. Read up on what happened to Ricky Rodriguez.
The Branch Davidians - Good old Waco cult nutjobs.
Some Chunks of Mormons - Some entire towns in Utah, famous for their underage brides and polygamy.
But you're apparently only skimming what I wrote, or it flew completely over your head, as you're missing the entire point. What I wrote was a hypothetical proof to show that morality and religion are not the same thing. Not that there are religions like that, simply that if there were one, you would not need a religion to feel that their doing so would be wrong.

Also, the argument of freedom becomes moot at the point where you try to argue Fit's (and mine, i guess) opinions on religion. You advocate the freedom to express whatever and then argue against his opinions.

Indeed! I argue against Fit's viewpoint that morality and religion are intertwined. I didn't say that he couldn't have them. I did say that I don't agree with them, and I did also say that he was contradicting himself, and showed where and how. How does any of that not jibe with anything I've said? Surely you don't actually win debates doing this, do you? :P

Sarien, you ever heard of the baha'is religion? Of all religions I've heard of that is the one which appeals the most. While I still wouldn't want to follow prayers and readings (which I see as a waste of time, and seemingly one thing that all religions have in common) their beliefs coincide most closely with my own.

Yeah I've heard of it, and have a couple friends that are into it. It's really not my cup of tea, because I just can't buy into an amalgam religion. But hey, if it's what you want? Go for it.

[Cops]