Nietsche!

[Lemufa]

okay, good point. to refine what i said, i still think you're asking about two things at the same time:



I think your question needs to essentially be pared down to deal with one of these tiers at a time. i'm unclear about which one you want to know: which of the primary tier most profoundly affects an individual's progress to the secondary tier, or which of the second tier most profoundly accelerates the final breakdown.

edit: it took me a while to make that paint gif, so melufe and zeus posted in between. to clarify, i am replying to Liquid Blue

By the way Vykromond, one of my friends is impressed with your music collection. He wants to add you on the facebook. Send me a little message on facebook.

[Liquid Blue]

okay, good point. to refine what i said, i still think you're asking about two things at the same time:



I think your question needs to essentially be pared down to deal with one of these tiers at a time. i'm unclear about which one you want to know: which of the primary tier most profoundly affects an individual's progress to the secondary tier, or which of the second tier most profoundly accelerates the final breakdown.

edit: it took me a while to make that paint gif, so melufe and zeus posted in between. to clarify, i am replying to Liquid Blue

Awesome, you made a chart, I feel touched. Nice touch adding coldplay in there

That's an interesting way to look at it, I didn't even figure in despair. Despair could have the same affects as loss of accountability, seeing as how you're too depressed to care what would happen to you. Sort of like the feeling " I'm going to die anyway, might as well do whatever I want ".

But to clarify, I didn't think of seperate tiers before, but to look at it now i'd guess I'd have to go with the second tier. It wuld seem to be the final thread, the breaking point of each man holding on to their humanity and compassion. What I would like to know from you all, is which do you think would hurt us the most. Losing all hope, losing the fear of accountability, losing all your loved ones, whatever. What do you think would finally break the straw on the donkey's back?

This raises another question- what holds us from doing whatever we want right now, the fear of punishment, morality (damn that girl has a nice ass, I'd love to fuck her retarded..but that's wrong), or even fear of social reactions?

[genocidal]

Melufa, a criticism of Nietzsche is that his philosophy is nihilistic - not that he supports nihilism or something. The argument comes down to what warrants nihilism - not whether or not Nietzsche thought he himself was nihilistic.

Nietzsche rejected Truth, morality, knowledge, and power based on a god of some sorts. His "God is dead" quote that everyone seems to know means that he thought god (as a creator) may have existed at some point but, like any other figure, no longer exists. Existentialist he was and he vehemently rejected morality and values based on religion, afterlife, or a god. Nietzsche believed morality was ever-evolving in a way and was derived from, obviously, existential sentiments like emotion and feeling.

Here is where the nihilism criticism comes in. Though Nietzsche did accept a moral system it was based on things that many people consider to vary greatly (like subjective human emotion). This variance in morality would provide for an inconsistency of justice and values based on human subjectivity and bias that would essentially collapse any real system of justice. This is the inherent characteristic of nihilism in much of Nietzsche's work - he is able to reject a great many things and criticize but his alternative is forced to accept nihilism on some level.

To be more clear, much of Nietzsche's views applied by the Nazis to justify their extermination. This corruption of values and morals means that they cannot be subject to human interference without huge reprecussions that even Nietzsche (hopefully) would reject.

So, is Nietzsche a nihilist? Yes and no, I would say. Of course he doesn't embrace and defend nihilism but many of his views point only in that direction.

EDIT: I'm no Nietzsche expert or anything and I'm far more acquainted with other philosophers' works so if any of the brief summations of him don't do his actual philosophy justice I completely agree with you. It's hard to summarily describe Nietzsche's degree of nihilism without writing a book.

[Troll King]

L&O: Trial By Jury was cancelled. Does that count as a Law and Order Breakdown?

[Vykromond]

The series will live. I'd say more of a "Law & Order Stumbling Block."

[Ashlee]

that's so deep

I agree ff

[Subjugation]

Re: Nitch (100 street credits to whoever knows that reference)

I know nothing about philosophy.

Re: LB's Q

Pretty much what Vyk said, except I would consider the 2nd tier of effects to be the same thing as the breakdown. I think you can have hopelessness/despair without a breakdown. But without an authoritarian structure, by definition, you have anarchy/chaos. On the other hand, as long as there are enough civilians to step up and resume temporary authority (eg. militia), the anarchy can be staved off. However, that would just be another authoritarian structure.

Without social order, people have no choice but to rely on their primitive instincts. Nola was a perfect example of "survival of the fittest", which is a reference to social evolution. The upper class were able to gtfo, and the lower class were forced to fend for themselves or perish. Those who were weak (old, sick, starving) were at great risk of death or infirmity, and many fell mortal victim to their place on the low end of the socioeconomic ladder.

[GHB]

i once read DIE FROEHLICHE WISSENSCHAFT and also ALSO SPRACH ZARATHUSTRA and DIE GOETZENDAEMMERUNG and ECCE HOMO that's how intellectual i am


also his poems are very funny

[DoTheFandango]

This thread gets two:
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Big Thumbs up the butt