Human Question

[Tone]

You know what id say to this

[T3l Ca7]

Originally Posted by T3l Ca7
Translated: That's why I am considered crazy - because I can't be bothered to explain to those dumb mess my brillant decisions. And even when I am feeling both extremely smart and patient, I just can't get much accomplished because they spend most of their times explain their reasons to idiots who are just too dumb.

Telly Welly...tell me I'm wrong

You were like ... half right ... then you fell back into hallucination

P.S. I never had any patience so I couldn't have ever spent any time on idiots ... not other than trashing them anyways. :fear:

[Exalt]

You were like ... half right ... then you fell back into hallucination

P.S. I never had any patience so I couldn't have ever spent any time on idiots ... not other than trashing them anyways. :fear:

who the hell actually quotes their own quote, and then comments on it and says the same thing that the quote said, which was a bunch of garbled meaningless shit?

[Fluffz]

You know what id say to this

the pentagon has - under alien control - built a time machine to go back in time and genetically seed the semen of hate in humanking to justify and secure its existance?

[Pressure Drop]

i don't see us that much different to animals.

We call ourselves civilized and intelligent but i also think we overate ourselves in these departments. We continualy have an extremely shortsighted view on the world, using resources that took millions of years to build up at such a rate that they will only last humans a few hundred years. We even know that it is also bad for our climate but no one seems to care that much becuase its suits us right now ...

That is quite scant regard for the future and not an act of a civilized and intelligent race in my opinion.


As for wars and killings, i think this is a throw back to the fact that humans lived in tribes and shared alot of genes with the tribe so that in evolutionary terms it was best for their genes to survive for them to stick together and help each other. As civilization has grown this urge to belong to a group continues and is displayed in teenagers alot lol

Unfortunatly these groups can feel threated by other groups and can turn to many different extremes ranging from general phobia and ignorance to ethnic cleansing which has been going on since history started to be recorded.


i could be very wrong.

[Ephemeral]

Recent research shows that other primates, like chimps, have shown the behavior you outline. They killed ('murdered' was the word the researchers used) for no apparent reason. At times chimps stalked and ambushed other individuals. Researchers have also recorded wars between groups that lasted for years.

I raise this issue because so much of our behavior is related to courtship, sex, territory.
Woman wear makeup to emulate a sexual flush. Men size up the 'competition' when we walk into a room. We all have a personal space that feels violated if anyone comes to close (territory). When dating, people will literally feed each other as a means of bonding.

These are all strong indications of evolutionary heritage. Evolution is fact. Evolution is defined as 'things change' and we all know that they do. Humans have changed greatly in just the last few hundred years, on average we are much taller and live longer. Every animal and plant that humans have declared 'worthwhile' has evolved over the years with the hand of man guiding it.

Part of our evolution is trying to overcome some of our most primordial instincts such as violence. We try to not apply human judgments and values to the violence we observe in nature, a lion taking down a gazelle is neither ‘good’ nor ‘bad’, it simply ‘is’. Yet vegetarians declare our position near the top food chain as immoral. A person blowing away an intruder who is breaking into his house (territory) can be prosecuted as a murderer if the intruder isn’t found to be carrying a weapon. Countries still war with each other over territories, as do street gangs.
Even the roles of men and women have evolutionary roots. It is not just some ‘trend’ that men feel like they need to ‘provide’ for the family, nor for a woman to have nurturing tendencies.

So my opinion is that the violence you speak of is present in nature, and is a strong part of our innate human behavior. So perhaps the question should be, are we learning, are we getting better?

[BleakFuture]

Originally posted by Ephemeral
So perhaps the question should be, are we learning, are we getting better?

Its getting worse. Instead of just learning important things like curing diseases, feeding everyone, etc, we're developing new ways to kill ourselves and others. Its human nature to "think outside the box" and find new innovations and inventions to help us live longer and easier.... but in the end the result isn't always a smart one.

[Ephemeral]

Its getting worse. Instead of just learning important things like curing diseases, feeding everyone, etc, we're developing new ways to kill ourselves and others. Its human nature to "think outside the box" and find new innovations and inventions to help us live longer and easier.... but in the end the result isn't always a smart one.

Is it that really? Or just the fact that we now have 24/7 live news feeds for every flipping 'news' event on earth?

It's like the many news stories I saw this year regarding sex offenders and Halloween. Many authorities made a big deal of talking about making people who have already served their time and making them attend a ‘class’ on Halloween night. Does anyone have real statistics or numbers on kid who get sexually assaulted on Halloween? Have more and more kids been sexually assaulted during Halloween over the years? No.
The numbers say ‘No’. The numbers show that most pedophiles know their victims and are usually (82%+) an actual family member. General violent crime numbers have been dropping tremendously in the USA, and are now the lowest since the 1950’s. Yet when we put so much weight into 30 second news sound bites, we become misinformed.

So we freak our children out due to our simpleton approach to life, our willingness to blame and hold others responsible so we can be shitty parents. The easy way out.

It is simply easier (and ‘cooler’) to go buy a handgun, practice with it a few times and declare ourselves Dirty Harry then actually take the time and money to truly make our homes and properties secure. It is simply easier to listen to some 30 second sound bites on crime and to believe that all these pervs are going to snatch our kids than face the facts that the threat is really from Uncle Joe or dad, and then have to deal with that kind of responsibility and family upheaval.

[Theif of Time]

WWJD?

Most people assume WWJD is for "What would Jesus do?". But the initials really have been changed to stand for "What would Jesus drive?".

One theory is that Jesus would tool around in an old Plymouth because the Bible says, "God drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden in a Fury".

But in Psalm 83, the Almighty clearly owns a Pontiac and a Geo. The passage urges the Jesus to "pursue your enemies with your Tempest and terrify them with your Storm".

Perhaps God favors Dodge pickup trucks, because Moses' followers are warned not to go up a mountain "until the Ram's horn sounds a long blast".

Some scholars insist that Jesus drove a Honda but didn't like to talk about it. As proof, they cite a verse in St. John's gospel where Christ tells the crowd, "For I did not speak of my own Accord..."

Meanwhile, Moses rode an old British motorcycle, as evidenced by a Bible passage declaring that "the roar of Moses' Triumph is heard in the hills".

Joshua drove a Triumph sports car with a hole in its muffler: "Joshua's Triumph was heard throughout the land". And, following Jesus' lead, the Apostles car pooled in a Honda... "The Apostles were in one Accord."

but the truth is, religion creates animosity which creates dislike which turns into hatred which makes people do stupid things, which makes governments allow stupid things to happen, which means there are no laws against doing stupid things... and you get a war, which is just another product of people being stupid and hating on each other

Don't blame it on religion. People would be pretty much the same, if not worse, without religion. Theres a good side and a bad side, but its often just an excuse to fight, rather than the cause.

Its getting worse. Instead of just learning important things like curing diseases, feeding everyone, etc, we're developing new ways to kill ourselves and others.

Yeah. Actually, the food produced today is enough to feed everyone, with surplus, but a lot of the initial vegetable/grain product goes into fueling the meat industry (Which, apparently, is bloated. We eat more meat than we need, especially in richer western countries, and it takes its toll). So if we lived on vegetable rich diets with only small amounts of meat, we could feed the world.

[Liquid Blue]

I don't know if it's just the case of us living on vegatable diets, that we'd be able to feed the entire world. The major companies that distribute said food and mass-market...maybe I should just say " the men at the top". Yeah, the men at the top wouldn't make as much money if we just lived off of vegatable diets, would they? Would they really gain as much profit as they are now if we didn't eat fast-food, and spread our products evenly throughout the world? I don't think they would, and I think (due to our human nature), fanatics with fancies for power would hoard some of the food supplies to try to take over however small a part of the world that they could.

So my opinion is that the violence you speak of is present in nature, and is a strong part of our innate human behavior. So perhaps the question should be, are we learning, are we getting better?

In some ways I think we're getting better, and in some ways I don't think we're getting worse, simply creating and going down more "bad paths" with the more options and situations available to us. Example, a guy robbing someone. In medievel times, he would have snatched your "purse" or "sack of gold" in the woods or something. In the seventies-nineties, he could have robbed a bank or hi-jacked a car. In this current decade, he could scam someone via e-mail, get someone's credit-card number and go on a shopping spree, or hack into someone's bank account. Now I know a few of those could have been done in the 90's, but I'm just trying to show with more technology, although we are getting better in some aspects, there is still potential to do different, and yet at the same time evil/bad things.

As for wars and killings, i think this is a throw back to the fact that humans lived in tribes and shared alot of genes with the tribe so that in evolutionary terms it was best for their genes to survive for them to stick together and help each other. As civilization has grown this urge to belong to a group continues and is displayed in teenagers alot lol

Unfortunatly these groups can feel threated by other groups and can turn to many different extremes ranging from general phobia and ignorance to ethnic cleansing which has been going on since history started to be recorded.

Nice nice, I agree.

Don't get all caught up on what humans are supposed to be. You're assuming that humans aren't animals, or that they're *supposed* to be better than animals. This is a hint of idealism on your part, because it avoids a basic truth of human existance. Humans are animals. The difference between us and them is that we have some additional control over our natural animal instincts. We can override them at times, or we can indulge in them. Some of us have more control than others, and it shows in how they act.

True~


Good topic Spider, I had sort of tinkered around with this subject but you nailed it on the head for me.

[SpiderMage]

I don't know if it's just the case of us living on vegatable diets, that we'd be able to feed the entire world. The major companies that distribute said food and mass-market...maybe I should just say " the men at the top". Yeah, the men at the top wouldn't make as much money if we just lived off of vegatable diets, would they? Would they really gain as much profit as they are now if we didn't eat fast-food, and spread our products evenly throughout the world? I don't think they would, and I think (due to our human nature), fanatics with fancies for power would hoard some of the food supplies to try to take over however small a part of the world that they could.



In some ways I think we're getting better, and in some ways I don't think we're getting worse, simply creating and going down more "bad paths" with the more options and situations available to us. Example, a guy robbing someone. In medievel times, he would have snatched your "purse" or "sack of gold" in the woods or something. In the seventies-nineties, he could have robbed a bank or hi-jacked a car. In this current decade, he could scam someone via e-mail, get someone's credit-card number and go on a shopping spree, or hack into someone's bank account. Now I know a few of those could have been done in the 90's, but I'm just trying to show with more technology, although we are getting better in some aspects, there is still potential to do different, and yet at the same time evil/bad things.





Nice nice, I agree.




True~


Good topic Spider, I had sort of tinkered around with this subject but you nailed it on the head for me.

Thanks :grin:

[Kolar]

Actually the reasons for much of the hunger and death in the world is not because it's all going to fuel. It's either political, I.E assholes like North Korea more concerned about building their armies and WMD pile while their people starve to death, they even ignore offers of help from the civilized world mostly to spite the West. The other factor is technology, much of the developing world lacks the geneticly modified crops which can produce more of a harvest and thrive in hostile locations aswell as other modern farming technology.



If a person is starving they're not going to be worried if it's a piece of meat or bread they're eating. That's just silly.

[Liquid Blue]

I wasn't implying that the starving person would care what type of food their getting- that is silly. I was saying that we aren't feeding everyone in the world because of greedy higher-ups that control alot of the cash and food flow in the world.

[Kolar]

What would limiting the food supply do for anyone? sure there are some a-moral assholes in the world with a lot of power but developing the smaller economies and asserting control over them would be far more profitable and empowering.


I don't see a lot of evidence that this is happening and it doesn't seem logical. Maybe you're pointing to globalization, which should actually help the developing world more then hinder it.

[Liquid Blue]

It's not so much as limiting the food supply, but limiting what types of food gets around the world, and the big guys that decide which foods. Like I said in an earlier post, let's use fast food for an example. Without a doubt it's bad for us, yet how many Mc Donald's are there in countries all over the world? I don't just mean England or Spain, but how about Iraq, parts of Russia, Africa, etc etc. Wouldn't it benefit those people more to have healthy food be available to them, or at least moreso than they could get a big mac with fries?

Why don't we see more "poor" countries given better standards when it comes to food, and more amounts in general? I can't be positive and speak for those guys in the suits, but I'm guessing it's because they don't think the ends justify the means. If they are going to send them food, they want to make a profit out of it. Why send them a ton of vegatables and meat (or better yet, the tools/machinery that would allow them to produce higher quantities of their own) when you can have them throw away what little money they do have on milkshakes and cheeseburgers?