Calling Darwinists Everywhere!

[Send]

Not meant to be a religion thread, but is the concept of natural selection really for the betterment of our species?

As in, right now, we're doing the complete opposite of it. We pay our taxes to welfare, hospitals, and retirement homes. Would it be for the betterment of our species if we cut off life support, etc. and let the people who can't work for themselves die off so they can't contribute anything to the gene pool?

Just a noter: Don't say things like it's immoral or anything, I'm talking IF we did it would it improve our species (intelligent people with good jobs keep their living to a certain standard and pass on their genes).

[froedrick]

Compassion is one of the major things that make humans, human.

[Twerp]

Hospitals are for people that have accidents and injuries, some are caused by other people which is not their fault.

Welfare should be allowed, but only for a period of time and they have to try to work on their own. I think it is unfair for hard working citizens to have to carry poor people, who are too lazy to search or hold a job, through life.

Retirement Homes: What if you were an old person? What if your spouse died years ago and you are living by yourself? Wouldn't you want to live with someone who is a peer?

[Send]

Yeah Twerp, I know cutting off life support and all that other stuff is immoral blablabla, but if we really did all that, would it or would it not be the betterment of our species?

(The dim-witted slobs without welfare can't support themselves and therefore die off, without having a chance to pass down their genes creating a stronger gene pool

Injured people in hospitals are cut off life support, less money to be spent on the weak, improving financial states of stronger families)

[404 Not Found]

Compassion is one of the major things that make humans, human.

We can put down a pet or animal if we see it in pain and suffering for the moral theory that we helped this creature, yet we cannot do that for ourselves.

[froedrick]

We can put down a pet or animal if we see it in pain and suffering for the moral theory that we helped this creature, yet we cannot do that for ourselves.

Some countries allow assisted suicide, and I personally am completely for it. I don't want to be hooked up to life supports

[BleakFuture]

Some countries allow assisted suicide, and I personally am completely for it. I don't want to be hooked up to life supports

I'd tend to agree, but only to a point. If I'm a vegetable, I wouldn't want to just wither away. If I'm in constant horrible pain, I'd prolly wuss out and end it.

[Sarien]

Fellas.. this is easy. You're thinking too literal.

You're thinking that natural selection is tooth and claw survival of the strongest. Well, it's not survival of the strongest, it's survival of the fittest.

There is such a thing as behavioral evolution too. It isn't always about who can stretch us forward biologically, who can push us forward with wings and fangs. It is also about those individuals that can push our behavior, our ways of seeing and understanding the universe forward as well. Quite simply put, there are people born every day that can teach us things, and if we as a species ignore them and don't try to push ourselves into being better, then once we stagnate, it's over for us.

[Squeezer]

Yeah, natural selection sounds good among humans and all, the problem is no one considers themselves to be unfit.

Unless you want more Hitler's in the world, I suggest we be modest about our humanity, and relish that we're the best species out there, rather than fighting ourselves.

[Kolar]

Natural selection/survival of the fittest does not apply to Humans.

[K2Grey]

Whether someone is fit or not is dependent on the environment. There will always be some kind of evolutionary force in action on humans unless everyone is equally fertile and has a equal amount of sex and their children have equal chances of themselves reproducing etc. Long ago the people who were fittest might be the people who can use the biggest club, nowadays it might be the people who have skills necessary to make lots of money, or physical attractiveness, or whatever. Basically fitness is dependent on the environment and not a direct correlation to physical strength, healthiness, ability to win fights, etc.

In general, the greater variety there is among a species, the better the chance that at least some part of the species will be able to survive some huge disaster. What eugenics and so on do is reduce the variety, so that all humans end up being what some guy thinks is best, but then if a disaster happens and that portion of humanity can't handle it well then they're screwed.

[BleakFuture]

Natural selection/survival of the fittest does not apply to Humans.

Agreed. We're above the "system". But does that mean that we can mess with the system? Just a thought.

[Subjugation]

There's a huge misunderstanding in popular culture that people take "fitness" to mean the "strongest" or "most talented". That's not what anthropologists and biologists refer to when speaking of "fitness". Fitness just means "the ability to reproduce and create viable offspring (textbook answer)." And by viable, it means their offspring are able to reproduce, as well. For example, a horse and a donkey are able to produce a mule, but the mule isn't able to reproduce. Therefore, mules aren't able to pass along their genetic material to future generations and are, by definition, biologically unfit.

However, the phrase "survivial of the fittest" is actually a phrase coined by Herbert Spencer, an acclaimed economist who went on to be one of the foremost leaders on social evolution. The way I understand it, his original definition referred to fitness in terms of economic survival, not biological survival. However, down the road, he saw similarities between Darwinian natural selection and economic theory, and that's when he started getting more involved in social evolutionary theory.

Now that some of the misconceptions are out of the way, it's important to note what Kolar said. Natural selection doesn't really apply to humans anymore---at least those that live in modern civilizations. Due to our sense of altrusim (we take care of those that are weak, sick, or poor), and our ability to generate our own resources, we have taken something of a "short-cut" out of traditional Darwinian natural selection.

[Liquid Blue]

Natural selection/survival of the fittest does not apply to Humans.

Yea I agree as well, I think I remember someone touching upon this in a thread on here some time or another. The way our society has been built up, you really can't apply natural selection. Idiots or fat slobs can still get laid if they have enough money/ find desperate women that want to get married, so weaker men physically/mentally can still find mates and offspring. Food can be bought for amazingly cheap prices considering the standard flow of money for most jobs- you might not be able to eat lobster or caviar (sp?) every night, but you can still buy stuff to survive off of at giant or some other grocery store. Hunting skills and physical prowress have little to no influence on how much food you can gather and how many females you can "impregnate".

The human race is overpopulated, which is why so many non-contributing are able to slip through the cracks- whether you like to think about it or not, there might not be someone meant for everyone, but I can almost guarentee you that as barring any extreme circumstances, there is someone that would fuck anyone you know. It's all about situational differences. An attractive guy might not have to work as hard to get laid as often, but a fat guy can still get laid. In the late 20's- I wanna say mid 40's, marriage is a big thing for women, and some will lower their standards just to get that social status of being a wife/ having kids. In our society, money and power/influence/social status are the main factors that decide the quality of food or women we can get. Quantity isn't really a problem like I said, it's mainly about quality.

[Liquid Blue]

Son of a bitch I hate posting a minute or so after JT, TK or Sarien. Always makes me look like a tool.

*shakes fist*