European Football Fans

[Pressure Drop]

I think it is wrong to acuse the casuals of just wanting to start fights. They simply live for the team they support. Besides, what else you gonna do on a saturday night ^-^
If you take out Ultras, Casuals and other supporters out of football, you automatically Americanize the sport. There would be no more away games and football becomes an American sport where families eat hot dogs and applaud both teams regardless of who wins.

What?

1) these hooligans are bad for football you shouldn't be proud of them. They are just mindless thugs who care more about a punch up with rival thugs than they do about the actual match being played. They are most often racist and bigoted morons. The sport would be better off without them or people claiming they are good trying to be macho.

2) To try and claim that without these people the sport would become americanised is idiotic and meaningless. The sport could only be considered "americanised" if time-outs etc... would be brought into it or they made the nets much bigger so more attacking moves end in goals the way most basketball attacks result in a basket.

Football has already whored itself to sponsors etc... and turned into a more of a bussiness at the top level than a sport. The players are in adverts and individual sponsorhip deals as it is.

3) you can care passionately about your team without resorting to mindless violence ...

[Zazu]

You say we only cheer when we are doing good.. you mean that you cheer when your team loses? Wow you're a real fan.

History has proven that Ajax is the best Dutch team, and 2 less years aren't gonna change that. I don't recall me ever saying Ajax is better then AC Milan, but Ajax can sure as hell beat AC Milan, and if you are reffering too of what I think you are reffering too, wich would be either one of the 2 matches we played against AC Milan in 2003. Then I could have said that Ajax was better then AC Milan in ONE of those matches but that AC Milan won in the very last seconds of the game by an error of the referee. Yea then I might have said that Ajax was better then AC Milan THAT game.

You're PSV right? just because PSV manages to do semi-good 2 years in a row doesn't give you any right to claim that PSV is better then Ajax. If Ajax is soo shitty, why did PSV lose THIS Season to Ajax? I support my team you support yours, that's called freedom of choice. And everyone has a different taste, whether it comes to sports, music, food, whatever. Just because the team you chose to Support doesn't have a history as great as Ajax doesn't mean you get the right to bash them.

And I am an Ajax fan, I don't care what you think about it, and I will always stand behind Ajax wether we are doing shitty or not.

Galleleo is a genius. I'm a big Ajax fan aswell. No matter how they are doing .. Even though they didn't perform too well during the last 2 seasons .. they still managed to stay in the top of the Dutch Competition. And they're even still playing in the Champions League.
And I hate those people who just support the winning team only. Wow .. this year it's PSV.. I'M A PSV FAN !!
Next year Ajax is winning the title .. WOW I'M AN AJAX FAN !
Hate those .. I've been a fan during Ajax's peaks and their downs .. When they became World Champion, but aswell when they ended like 3th or 4th.

And talking about supporter clashes.. Don't forget Ajax - Feyenoord .. I don't remember the year exactly .. but the supporters of both teams organised a huge fight. Holding chains, sticks, iron stuff, knifes, ... An Ajax Supporter even got killed there. Beated to death. That is going too far imo.

[Tyson]

What?

1) these hooligans are bad for football you shouldn't be proud of them. They are just mindless thugs who care more about a punch up with rival thugs than they do about the actual match being played. They are most often racist and bigoted morons. The sport would be better off without them or people claiming they are good trying to be macho.

2) To try and claim that without these people the sport would become americanised is idiotic and meaningless. The sport could only be considered "americanised" if time-outs etc... would be brought into it or they made the nets much bigger so more attacking moves end in goals the way most basketball attacks result in a basket.

Football has already whored itself to sponsors etc... and turned into a more of a bussiness at the top level than a sport. The players are in adverts and individual sponsorhip deals as it is.

3) you can care passionately about your team without resorting to mindless violence ...

You are biased.
If you took the time to read about it you would know that clashing with the other supporters is not the main thing on a supporter's mind.
I won't go all wikipedia on you but you should really read up on something before you jump to conclusions. Its like someone calling animals stupid and useless. Anyways the information you have is most likely based on bbc.com and other media although if you have real life experience please share.

As for football becoming a business sport. It is true that alot of it has changed the way the game is being looked at no nevertheless it has made supporters grow even stronger. It would be ridiculous to imagine a football team in Europe without supporters. Whether people agree or not most players and coaches will tell you that they are the 12'th player on the field.

Anyways heres an awesome pic I believe its from the Rangers game. Choreography made by their supporters.





P.S. 3 Videos of Millwall - Everton (Millwall fans celebrating)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OSUPK53Q

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DX3AYVDF

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=32DNE9A0

[H I M]

Arg my eyes!

This was the one place I never expected to see that hell-hole of a stadium. You have defiled the forums eved more.

[gran guerrero]

not many ppl know this cause they only see terrorism but iran is a football frenzy country
when i was there a while back i would be surprised if i didnt see ppl playing it in the streets every corner i turned there was a football game going on, you must be really bad at the game if u werent picked to play at all i mean theres like 2000000 games going on every day. i even saw a basketball court there but ppl were just playing football on it.
we just get no respect from the rest of the world in football cause we're muslim and the ACC sucks ass and everyone is just a bunch of cheating bribing shit heads in it. fuck sudi arabia for paying every ref and other countrys to get them in the World cup/fifa etc while iran has to be nearly perfect.
this world cup though! oh boy iran going to rip it up!

[Pressure Drop]

You are biased.
If you took the time to read about it you would know that clashing with the other supporters is not the main thing on a supporter's mind.
I won't go all wikipedia on you but you should really read up on something before you jump to conclusions. Its like someone calling animals stupid and useless. Anyways the information you have is most likely based on bbc.com and other media although if you have real life experience please share.

As for football becoming a business sport. It is true that alot of it has changed the way the game is being looked at no nevertheless it has made supporters grow even stronger. It would be ridiculous to imagine a football team in Europe without supporters. Whether people agree or not most players and coaches will tell you that they are the 12'th player on the field.

Anyways heres an awesome pic I believe its from the Rangers game. Choreography made by their supporters.





P.S. 3 Videos of Millwall - Everton (Millwall fans celebrating)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OSUPK53Q

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DX3AYVDF

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=32DNE9A0

Funny you should use Rangers as an example. They have many secterian fans and where i live they use the Rangers and Celtic shirts as part of the secterian hatred. If you wore the wrong shirt into the wrong Pub you would get killed, most pubs in Central Belfast have banned people wearing either shirt from entering, to try and aviod the shirt provoking trouble. The people who wear these shirts think of themselves as fans but inreality they only use it to identify and strengthen their bonds with their community. You would hardly ever get a protestant celtic fan or a catholic rangers fan here becuase its not really about football but a long running feud.

If you've ever seen someone out numbered and attacked for no other reason than the shirt they are wearing is not a nice feeling at all and makes you feel sick and powerless as you can't do anything to help complete strangers geting their heads kicked in by a gang of thugs.

Some of your "ultras" supporters of Northern Ireland gave our best player Neil Lennon death threats which he was told by the police to take seriously and led to him retiring from international football. All this becuase he moved to Celtic and the hard line Northern ireland supporters hate Celtic and like Rangers. What has that got to do with your country ? nothing yet he was forced out ...

Indeed i can't really go to the local games or the internationals in Belfast becuase of that group of "ultras" would hate me simply becuase of my name, so there is a chance if the wrong people over heard someone calling my name i'd get lynched. yay

The fact is that although where i live has more problems than a lot of others these types of supporters are generaly fascist supporters and are secterian, racist and complete bigots no matter where they come from. Look at the monkey chants carried out in big games in spain etc...

I never said that there shouldn't be supports off a team, what i said you can support a team passionately without ever resorting to violience. You seem to be condoning the ones that participate in mindless violence under the thin veil of "supporting their club". That isn't true, they are just thugs and if football was never invented they would still form gangs and fight each other over something. Their support is just an excuse to appear macho "i'd die for my club i'm so loyal " etc...



I love football and have been following it for 15 years and talked positively about it on these forums but i'm not about to start saying that the minority of fans that engage in fighting other supporters are good for the game or make it stand out from American sports.

[Galleleo]

The whole bussiness aspect is precisely why I dislike Chelsea, I have always been a Arsenal fan for England, but buying your way to the top is just fucked up. That's why I always laugh at Real Madrid when they fail again, and again, and again. I can really respect players that stick with their club eventho it's not as big, or eventho they can't make as much money as a different team offers them, but just because they like the club, they like the culture etc.

I just totally dispise the way Chelsea bought themselves to the top, and I am really hoping Barcelona beats the crap out of them in the coming round of the CL.

[Tyson]

Funny you should use Rangers as an example. They have many secterian fans and where i live they use the Rangers and Celtic shirts as part of the secterian hatred. If you wore the wrong shirt into the wrong Pub you would get killed, most pubs in Central Belfast have banned people wearing either shirt from entering, to try and aviod the shirt provoking trouble. The people who wear these shirts think of themselves as fans but inreality they only use it to identify and strengthen their bonds with their community. You would hardly ever get a protestant celtic fan or a catholic rangers fan here becuase its not really about football but a long running feud.

If you've ever seen someone out numbered and attacked for no other reason than the shirt they are wearing is not a nice feeling at all and makes you feel sick and powerless as you can't do anything to help complete strangers geting their heads kicked in by a gang of thugs.

Some of your "ultras" supporters of Northern Ireland gave our best player Neil Lennon death threats which he was told by the police to take seriously and led to him retiring from international football. All this becuase he moved to Celtic and the hard line Northern ireland supporters hate Celtic and like Rangers. What has that got to do with your country ? nothing yet he was forced out ...

Indeed i can't really go to the local games or the internationals in Belfast becuase of that group of "ultras" would hate me simply becuase of my name, so there is a chance if the wrong people over heard someone calling my name i'd get lynched. yay

The fact is that although where i live has more problems than a lot of others these types of supporters are generaly fascist supporters and are secterian, racist and complete bigots no matter where they come from. Look at the monkey chants carried out in big games in spain etc...

I never said that there shouldn't be supports off a team, what i said you can support a team passionately without ever resorting to violience. You seem to be condoning the ones that participate in mindless violence under the thin veil of "supporting their club". That isn't true, they are just thugs and if football was never invented they would still form gangs and fight each other over something. Their support is just an excuse to appear macho "i'd die for my club i'm so loyal " etc...



I love football and have been following it for 15 years and talked positively about it on these forums but i'm not about to start saying that the minority of fans that engage in fighting other supporters are good for the game or make it stand out from American sports.

Kay, much better post then your previous one ^-^
I agree that football violence can get out of hand. I don't think however that you can have supporters without some type of violence. Part of the Ultras code for example is to protect the pride of the city. If there is any violence during football matches the blame in my opinion should be placed on police themselves because they are the ones who fail to keep the away and home team fans apart from eachother. Keep in my mind that things are improving, police is becoming much better at this stuff. I'll give you an example,

In 2001 when I went for a vacation I was with my team's supporters when they played a local club called Vojvodina. We were stationed on the southern side of the stadium where we always do and there was security around us. Their fans who call themselves The Firm were stationed on the northern side. After the game police kept us for about 20 minutes while the away fans exited. After that everyone went home and that was it. This is what police usually does and it works.

The only thing I dislike about everything is the arranged fights that happen outside of the city or whatever. This is what you were refering to I believe. To me, that is not part of football and the supporters that do that do not represent their team. The thing is its hard when you live in a big city where you have two or more rivalry teams because you never know who lives where. Same thing goes for fights on everyday streets, that is something that should not occur because it has nothing to do with football.

*** The only time I would justify a fight or an attack is
1. If the police just stepped aside and did nothing
2. If the opposing teams fans were trashing my team's stadium or city
3. If they attacked first


This is a quote from my man Wikipedia :grin:
"Violence in sports has a long history. In the 6th century, rivalry between supporters of the Blue and Green chariot-racing teams in Constantinople, led to 30,000 deaths in the week of the Nika riots in 532."
Now this I never learned in my history class.

[Barton]

S O C C E R

soccer not football

[Tyson]

not many ppl know this cause they only see terrorism but iran is a football frenzy country
when i was there a while back i would be surprised if i didnt see ppl playing it in the streets every corner i turned there was a football game going on, you must be really bad at the game if u werent picked to play at all i mean theres like 2000000 games going on every day. i even saw a basketball court there but ppl were just playing football on it.
we just get no respect from the rest of the world in football cause we're muslim and the ACC sucks ass and everyone is just a bunch of cheating bribing shit heads in it. fuck sudi arabia for paying every ref and other countrys to get them in the World cup/fifa etc while iran has to be nearly perfect.
this world cup though! oh boy iran going to rip it up!

Btw Pressure Drop, you mentioned skinheads and how some supporters are fascist bastards. Thats true, I won't deny that. Like these Iranian supporters for example who used football as their way to speak out against the opression of the Islamic law and afcorse all got hanged and shot.

Wikipedia:
"In Iran hooliganism, including football hooliganism, is punished by prison or death. According to the SMCCDI (Students Movements Coordination Committee for Democracy in Iran) four Esfahan residents were executed by hanging between April 8 and 9 for their part in the October 2001 riots, when hundreds of youths took to the streets following a defeat of the Iranian national football team in a World Cup qualifying match. The four were accused of "banditry", "hooliganism" and "aggression" after clashing with police as furious fans shouting "Death to the Islamic Republic" tore down street decorations put up to welcome Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who was to visit to the city the following day."

[gran guerrero]

yeah we feel that we got cheated by the refs! i mean! YUGOSLAVIA WAS FUCKING THROWING US ON THE GROUND AND FOULING LIKE A BITCH AND THEY DONT SAY A FUCKING THING?

[Galleleo]

When it comes to this stuff, the ultras and hooligans and what not, the movie Hooligans gives a pretty accurate picture of the why and stuff. Why those people become hooligans, what drives them. Besides the fact that it's a great movie, it shows the attractive side in football, and (as far as I am considered) also the bad side too it. But take away the fighting part and you have everything what makes football so great.

[Ewan]

Anyways heres an awesome pic I believe its from the Rangers game. Choreography made by their supporters.

I am pretty sure this was not "choreographed" by the fans themselves. It would have been the club who put the bits of card on the seats, and most likely told them when to hold them up.

[Galleleo]

Actually it's mostly the fans doing this.. for example, in the Ajax stadium we have a side called "het sfeervak", it's their "job" to get the 12th man up, etc. So before matches (mostly big ones) the group of supporters from that particular side comes together and thinks out a plan, what can they do this time (for instance all those cards). They think it out and then in agreement with the club they put everything down where it is to be put down and the speaker will ask you hold it up when the players enter the field.

Same thing with Arsenal couple of weeks ago, the bergkamp day, it was from a group of supporters who decided to put orange shirts everywhere and ask the rest to put them on..

So it is mostly supporters coming up with those type of things.

[DoTheFandango]

WE GET IT. YOU GUYS LIKE SOCCER/FOOTBALL.