Hybrid Cars & Efficient Gas Mileage

[Sufficient]

Yes, right now Hybrid are a turn off because of how much they cost over the exact model that is nonhybrid ... however in a few years ... maybe even just 2 yrs or so, they will be a better bargain moneywise.

[genocidal]

Not to mention diesel is fucking terrible for the environment.

[Epinephrine]

Conc: I believe the whole diesel thing is based on prejudaces. The newest diesel engines create much much less pollution than they ever did before. Unfortunately, almost all diesel vehicles in north america are trucks and buses, which still use the old engine systems. So we have an unfair bias of 'diesel sucks' here because those buses and trucks make so much black smoke. I never really had a problem with foul-smelling cars (at least no more than here) while in Europe.

404: Considering it's Toyota's official plan to sell 1 million hybrids/year in 5 years (and they sell ike 8 million vehicles a year and are the number 1 hybrid manufacturer in the world) I think your stats are a bit off [ http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...-premium_x.htm ]



Interestingly enough, I was reading a while back that some car enthuisasts in California had managed to 'hack' a hybrid car to turn it into an electic car that you could plug into the wall. Basically european models of Japanese hybrids have a button that you can press that allows the car to run up to 1 kilometer using only the electric motor. Unfortuately US regulations prohibit that button from being used in the US because the car would officially be classified different or something like that.

These enthusiasts realized that they never actually took out the functionality in the North American model... it was just that instead of having a button, there was some solid plastic where the button should be. So they took it apart, then hacked the software a bit and made a new button that permanently made the car electric. Then they added some more wires and were able to recharge the car fully by plugging it in.

Toyota later said they didn't support this functionality even though it clearly worked, and there are still some questions about how this will affect the battery life and whether it will explode or not (if overcharged). Still it appears the technology for electric cars is already here, and it's a shame that they just don't go all the way. I wonder what the efficiency ratios would be for a plug-in car that runs off the electric grid compared to having a combustion engine (keeping in mind that the internal combustion engine is extremely efficient once you factor in electricity transmission costs and so on).

[ http://www.calcars.org/vehicles.html ]


Then of course there are fuel cell cars. Last year I attended a lecture by the CEO of Ballard Power Systems, one of the premier manufacturers of fuel cells in the entire world (the CEO/founder is a grad of my university). He explained quite clearly that fuel cells are extremely far off into the distance. After factoring into the costs of actually creating hydrogen (you need to split water or split hydrocarbons to create hydrogen which requires energy), transporting hydrogen (a litre of hydrogen has MUCH less energy than a litre of petroleum because of density, not to mention that you have to supercool the hydrogen to transport it properly as a liquid), and holding hydrogen in your car (in special tanks that weigh a lot) the much touted 'hydrogen economy' is only a bit more efficient than our cars now.

Then of course there's the idea that fuel cells just cost a ton of money to manufacture, and current techniques have basically just been incrementally improving on old technology instead of radically making new breakthroughs. He estimated that the cost would have to go down about a million-fold (or was it 100,000-fold? it's been a while) for it to be cost effective. So either you get it to cost that much less, or get fuel cells to be that much more effective... either way even if you tackle it from both sides, it's orders of magnitude of improvement that are so far off that no one really knows if it will ever be worthwhile.

With all the touting of a 'hydrogen economy' and the complete refusal of the US and Canadian governments to have serious plans to up fuel efficiency and invest more on technologies like hybrids, biodiesel/bioethanol and so on, one wonders just how badly the Japanese (and Europeans) are going to thrash us once their technologies are fully mature and decades beyond us.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Conc: I believe the whole diesel thing is based on prejudaces. The newest diesel engines create much much less pollution than they ever did before. Unfortunately, almost all diesel vehicles in north america are trucks and buses, which still use the old engine systems. So we have an unfair bias of 'diesel sucks' here because those buses and trucks make so much black smoke. I never really had a problem with foul-smelling cars (at least no more than here) while in Europe.

Yeah, I'd say that you're right about the smell. Come to think of it, my friend's car never smells like "diesel" (as in truck-and-bus diesel). The good news is that all of the in-town buses in Iowa City have started using a BD50 blend, so not even the buses here make with the nasty-nasty--they smell like french fries when they drive by.

[bloodzombie]

Interestingly enough, I was reading a while back that some car enthuisasts in California had managed to 'hack' a hybrid car to turn it into an electic car that you could plug into the wall.
.

my favorite is the guys that put a turbo on the honda insights. I don't know why honda doesn't make them from the factory like that.

[hogo]

my favorite is the guys that put a turbo on the honda insights. I don't know why honda doesn't make them from the factory like that.

yeah blitz did one I think it was in turbo magazine I remeber reading the article on it. Turbo Prius, was kinda cool but it didnt seem worth the effort.


This is why I will never drive a hybrid
http://videos.streetfire.net/player....F-B04E2D070C5E

mmmmmm

[Adman]

from what i hear, hybrid cars aren't the shit.

The battery in most of them will die after 5 years or some ridiculously low amount of time, and then what happens to the EXPENSIVE battery? it gets disposed and do damage to the enviroment. And i also heard it takes a lot of material to produce these batteries.

This is what a guy at work told me, but it seems reasonable, but it could also be totally wrong, it's what i hear, not 100% sure.

But i believe it.

[Bioture]

Because it's not all about how much money you'd save. Stop thinking with your wallet for a second and start thinking long-term. Shit, if I was thinking with my wallet for the decision, I'd ride a fucking bike--that's cheap. Walking's even cheaper. A lot of people buy hybrids because the actually give a shit about reducing dependence on oil and the lesser impact on the environment. The fact is that they're currently one of the few alternatives that normal people have to full-on gas guzzlers.

Thats great. If you read a little bit more carefully, the whole point I was trying to make was that MOST people DO think with their wallets.

Also, have you ever tried walking or biking 30 miles to work?

[geekbot]

Because it's not all about how much money you'd save. Stop thinking with your wallet for a second and start thinking long-term. Shit, if I was thinking with my wallet for the decision, I'd ride a fucking bike--that's cheap. Walking's even cheaper. A lot of people buy hybrids because the actually give a shit about reducing dependence on oil and the lesser impact on the environment. The fact is that they're currently one of the few alternatives that normal people have to full-on gas guzzlers.

Absolutely agree with this. There is a history of oil that everyone needs to be informed and aware of because its far reaching consequenses. Oil is a huge global industry and there are many invested in working towards sustaining it rather than finding alternatives. I've mostly been reading from a US historical view and it ain't too pretty.

Good books and a web page:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...148180-1279350
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...148180-1279350
http://www.hybridcars.com/oil.html

BTW, I'm not getting down on hybrids/alt fuel. Just responding to the original post who was all yay for America. We have a long way to go. But right now we definitely need to get on board with hybrids and alt fuels so that can lead to better, cleaner, and more efficient down the road.

[Richard Creager]

That's why I said previously to comeplety ditch combustion (as it fucking sucks) instead of using electricity (which sucks even worse and is even fucking older, 200+ years baby benjamin fucking franklin is not going to power your transportation vehicles people) as a weak fall back on for making something entirely new.

[404 Not Found]

Cost wise, Hybrid cars just aren't worth it. Why get a hybrid civic, that costs 3 thousand more, when you won't get the money back from gas for about 10 years or the life of the car? Also fixing it and upkeep will cost more too. I don't think there is enough of us to even care about the environment if the only benefit is saving it.

I'd say diesel is a better way to go, as crude refinement can provide us with a lot more diesel than petroleum based stuff. the VW jetta diesel gets 45mpg highway too.

Cost savings are available. Tax rebate on buying a Hybrid vary from State to State, but more or less will save you monies.

My perspective on this was for the person who would lease this for 3 years. Most people as I noted will lease a car todayrather than purchase it...perhaps they will on the buy out atthe end of the lease. So the warranty your worried about is covered.

This thread was intended to answer my curiosity of what other countries outside of N. America are doing within the auto industry...nothing more. It is an angle that you really do not hear on the news.

[bloodzombie]

yeah blitz did one I think it was in turbo magazine I remeber reading the article on it. Turbo Prius, was kinda cool but it didnt seem worth the effort.

not worth the effort if you're trying to make a fast car, but if you're trying to make a fuel efficient car, it's tits.

[Hydride]

80 KM? holy shit thats low, I can get around 100-200 KM on my car depending where im driving

EDIT: For around 40$ a tank of full gas

[Riesen]

Edit: Nevermind. We're all fucked.

[bloodzombie]

80 KM? holy shit thats low, I can get around 100-200 KM on my car depending where im driving

EDIT: For around 40$ a tank of full gas

There's something wrong with you.